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Enos Shenk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enos Shenk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by MT. Vigilante MT. Vigilante wrote:

I have a question for all of you athiests; since you seem to be prejudice against Christians, I ask you, do you hold the same feelings towards other religions, like say Muslims, buddhists, those who follow American Indian Religion? If not, then why? They believe in some form of a god as well.


Of course we do. So do you, christians disbelieve every other god, we just disbelieve yours too.

Quote If it is wrong to hate somone just because of skin color, why is it o.k. to hate somone just because they believe differently than you?


Athiests dont hate christians, we pity them.
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MT. Vigilante View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MT. Vigilante Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by Enos Shenk Enos Shenk wrote:

Originally posted by MT. Vigilante MT. Vigilante wrote:

I have a question for all of you athiests; since you seem to be prejudice against Christians, I ask you, do you hold the same feelings towards other religions, like say Muslims, buddhists, those who follow American Indian Religion? If not, then why? They believe in some form of a god as well.


Of course we do. So do you, christians disbelieve every other god, we just disbelieve yours too.

Quote If it is wrong to hate somone just because of skin color, why is it o.k. to hate somone just because they believe differently than you?


Athiests dont hate christians, we pity them.


Yes but, you athiests claim to dislike all religion, yet you focus your attacks on us.

Also, if you dont hate us, then why are their all those cartoons on the previous page that many whould call offensive. Which brings up another point, you athiests are all about tolerating everybody, yet your manner towards us is anything but tolerable.

And you still havn't disproved my claim that your attitude towards us is no different than a racists attitude towards a black person.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 3:40pm
Because the majority of Americans are christians, and our public policy tends to reflect this. If the majority were Muslims, our remarks would reflect that.
Enos basically hit the nail on the head, we simply believe in one less god than you.

"And you still havn't disproved my claim that your attitude towards us is no different than a racists attitude towards a black person."
You choose to be religous, you don't choose to be black.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 3:43pm

Originally posted by MT. Vigilante MT. Vigilante wrote:


Yes but, you athiests claim to dislike all religion, yet you focus your attacks on us.

Most atheists in this thread are surrounded by Christians, with nary a Hindu in sight.  Making fun of Shiva wouldn't be very productive.  Presumably things are different elsewhere.

Quote Also, if you dont hate us, then why are their all those cartoons on the previous page that many whould call offensive.

If you look carefully, those cartoons are all mocking the same thing:  irrational beliefs.  As a group, atheists simply refuse to accord special benefits to religious beliefs that are not accorded to other superstitions.  Would it be "offensive" to have a cartoon making fun of astrology?

Quote Which brings up another point, you athiests are all about tolerating everybody

Says who? 

Quote And you still havn't disproved my claim that your attitude towards us is no different than a racists attitude towards a black person.

Religion = irrational belief.  Black = genetic feature.

The two do not compare (for this purpose).  The more relevant comparison is that religion is similar to Flat-Earth-ism.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 4:14pm
I don't. I treat Christians, Jews, and Muslims the same- with amused tolerance. Fitting, since they all worship the same god, are all based off the same early Hebrew texts, all worship the same prophets to different degrees (with Mohammed as simply the last in a series of prophets according to the Muslim faith).

The monotheistic religions are simply the 'worst' offenders, as they tend to be the most dogmatic and historically violent, with the least tolerance for others. I view all religions the same as I would any other unproven theory, save they they seldom have nearly as much empirical evidence as developing science.

For you to presume hatred on my part is rather disrespectful. Hate is a very special thing I reserve for extremely unusual and deserving circumstances and people. It's not something I allow myself to indulge in much at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by MT. Vigilante MT. Vigilante wrote:

I have a question for all of you athiests; since you seem to be prejudice against Christians, I ask you, do you hold the same feelings towards other religions, like say Muslims, buddhists, those who follow American Indian Religion? If not, then why? They believe in some form of a god as well.


No, because we come in very little contact with them, and have extremely limited experience with them.

And the more rational atheists do not have hate in their heart, nor are they prejudiced(when have you ever been denied the right to use the same restroom as an atheist, or lost a job because there was an atheist applicant looking for the same job as you?). These ill-feelings you may observe are also not the product of someone believing in a god, but rather the product of evangelical christians that were flawed in their character because of their christianity.

Quote Another question; do you feel it is wrong to post racial jokes? If you do, then why do you feel it is o.k. to post jokes demeaning Christians? If it is wrong to hate somone just because of skin color, why is it o.k. to hate somone just because they believe differently than you?


Again, for the most part, it is not hate of the people, but rather the actions of some.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cedric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 5:19pm
Jesus camp.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MT. Vigilante Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 5:31pm
Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:


"And you still havn't disproved my claim that your attitude towards us is no different than a racists attitude towards a black person."
You choose to be religous, you don't choose to be black.


So that makes it o.k. to portray us as ignorant, stupid, and uneducated?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by MT. Vigilante MT. Vigilante wrote:

Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

"And you still havn't disproved my claim that your attitude towards us is no different than a racists attitude towards a black person." You choose to be religous, you don't choose to be black.
So that makes it o.k. to portray us as ignorant, stupid, and uneducated?
If the ark fits...

Why should your beleifs be held 'sacred,' as it were, and unquestionable?

Edited by BARREL BREAK - 07 February 2007 at 5:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MT. Vigilante Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

Originally posted by MT. Vigilante MT. Vigilante wrote:

Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

"And you still havn't disproved my claim that your attitude towards us is no different than a racists attitude towards a black person." You choose to be religous, you don't choose to be black.
So that makes it o.k. to portray us as ignorant, stupid, and uneducated?
If the ark fits...

Seriously, yes, it does.


What is that supposed to mean? I'm beginning to feel a little bit like the cave man on a geico commercial.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MT. Vigilante Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 5:47pm
Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

Originally posted by MT. Vigilante MT. Vigilante wrote:

Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

"And you still havn't disproved my claim that your attitude towards us is no different than a racists attitude towards a black person." You choose to be religous, you don't choose to be black.
So that makes it o.k. to portray us as ignorant, stupid, and uneducated?
If the ark fits...

Why should your beleifs be held 'sacred,' as it were, and unquestionable?


Who ever said you can't question them? I don't care if you question them or not, but there is a difference between questioning my beliefs and portraying me as a moron for following them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 5:48pm
Translation:
"If the ark fits... "
-If the shoe fits, with a biblical reference. Meaning that we don't have to do much work for most religous people to be seen as "ignorant, stupid, and uneducated"

"Seriously, yes, it does."
-It does make it okay.

Edited by BARREL BREAK - 07 February 2007 at 5:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 6:08pm

Originally posted by MT. Vigilante MT. Vigilante wrote:


So that makes it o.k. to portray us as ignorant, stupid, and uneducated?

And if a grown man told you, dead seriously, that he believes the Tooth Fairy is real, wouldn't you snicker just a little? 

And when he started providing details on exactly how the TF knows who has a tooth under their pillow, and how the TF gets around, and how the whole "Theory of Parental Tooth Rewards" is just a theory, wouldn't you roll your eyes just a little?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 6:10pm
Originally posted by MT. Vigilante MT. Vigilante wrote:

Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

Originally posted by MT. Vigilante MT. Vigilante wrote:

Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

"And you still havn't disproved my claim that your attitude towards us is no different than a racists attitude towards a black person." You choose to be religous, you don't choose to be black.
So that makes it o.k. to portray us as ignorant, stupid, and uneducated?
If the ark fits...

Why should your beleifs be held 'sacred,' as it were, and unquestionable?


Who ever said you can't question them? I don't care if you question them or not, but there is a difference between questioning my beliefs and portraying me as a moron for following them. 


It's the same thing coming religious people. I am seen as a moron by theistic people because I'm "going to hell" for disbelieving in their god. It's only a natural reaction for us to feel the same way about religious people, especially considering that us atheists felt the need to question our beliefs (back when we were religious) while theists just stick to a belief out of indoctrination or fear (from parents, pastors, friends, community, the scripture/laws of the religion). Theists are seen as morons because they just take in what they are given and don't think about or refuse to think about any other possibility.

You can say the same for us, but not every atheist has to believe in Darwinism or the Big Bang. Many of us search for further truth and only take it in if there is evidence for what we hear. Those are just the most commonly accepted theories among atheists because they make the most sense.


And if you don't believe in indoctrination: After I dropped my Islamic beliefs, I still feel as if my anti-religious actions such as drinking and lying will doom me somehow. As much as I've seen how irrational the ideas of religion are, I still feel like it will have an effect on me. It was a big pain to let go of what I used to think was true, only because it was enforced by my parents, friends, and teachers all throughout the years.


Edited by Tolgak - 07 February 2007 at 6:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 6:21pm
This thread is just too much win....Can't really add to what's been said, just had to comment. It would be nice if we had some better debaters on the religious side though.....I'd try but I'm not great with the devil's advocate thing, plus everyone would know I'm bsing.

On the original topic though, I've noticed this a few times lately with CNN...There was a thing about Global Warming on the other night featuring 3 well-spoken idiots and one quite guy trying to explain the science and getting pwned...

Damn liberal media...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hysteria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 7:01pm
Furthermore, Vigilante, the other religions you mentioned simply aren't as oppressive as yours.  There were no Muslims, Hindus or Buddhists on that clip saying that we should "just shut up".  Why would we attack them if they are doing nothing to us?

Yes, TKD, it appears we are both a part of the second greatest group on Facebook.  The group dedicated to the IPU is only marginally better.


Edited by Hysteria - 07 February 2007 at 7:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styro Folme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 8:58pm
Christians don't tolerate atheists.  In return Atheists don't tolerate Christians.  It's a cycle. 

My message to CNN:  I'm Atheist.  YOU shut up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 11:40pm

These debates are about as intelligent as the homosexual debates...

A:) I don't see Christian laws imposing Atheist rights, and I don't see Atheist laws imposing on Christian rights, so why stay so militant all the time? And don't blame the other side-both sides on this forum are guilty of overdramatizing the whole matter, myself included. The point is, most of the atheists here on the forum take every chance they get to point out how ignorant and silly the Christian belief is, be it through mocking sigs, avatars, or whatever, and the Christians generally respond with stupid, angry comebacks that make no sense whatsoever. The fact is, if you think you're better than someone else because of your beliefs, or you lack of beliefs, your an ass and an idiot.

B:) To say that there are idiots in Christianity...well no kidding Sherlock...there are idiots in the White House, Congress, the UN, your favorite software developer...let's face it, there are more idiots than intelligent people in the world.

C:) The blanket statements get old...there is no single representation of either group. There are smartass atheists and Christians, and there are those who think that no matter what, they're right.

D:) This conversations will never go anywhere, they're just pointless arguments. Which leads to point E...

Can't we all just get along?

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 11:47pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

Can't we all just get along?

Ask the Northern Irish...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ANARCHY_SCOUT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 11:55pm
Originally posted by MT. Vigilante MT. Vigilante wrote:

Originally posted by Enos Shenk Enos Shenk wrote:

Originally posted by MT. Vigilante MT. Vigilante wrote:

I have a question for all of you athiests; since you seem to be prejudice against Christians, I ask you, do you hold the same feelings towards other religions, like say Muslims, buddhists, those who follow American Indian Religion? If not, then why? They believe in some form of a god as well.


Of course we do. So do you, christians disbelieve every other god, we just disbelieve yours too.

Quote If it is wrong to hate somone just because of skin color, why is it o.k. to hate somone just because they believe differently than you?


Athiests dont hate christians, we pity them.


Yes but, you athiests claim to dislike all religion, yet you focus your attacks on us.

Also, if you dont hate us, then why are their all those cartoons on the previous page that many whould call offensive. Which brings up another point, you athiests are all about tolerating everybody, yet your manner towards us is anything but tolerable.

And you still havn't disproved my claim that your attitude towards us is no different than a racists attitude towards a black person.
I mainly focus on you because everyone else seems to respect our beliefs towards "god". On the other hand you christians seem to push your beliefs onto people who do not want them.  You  also seem to be the "supreme power" in your own mind.


*EDIT* O and antheist are not the ones who killed millions of innocent people in the middle ages, christians did.


Edited by ANARCHY_SCOUT - 07 February 2007 at 11:58pm
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