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Why only paintballs

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Langside Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2007 at 7:08am
Right he said that it was NOT paint in the marker. That is why I said he COULD has been killed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2007 at 1:38pm
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:


Are you really that dumb?  You do know that screws are extremely sharp at the point right? Not only that, but the marker that was fired from had it velocity screw removed. 

I fail to see how you linking to an instance of a young child dying due to a sharp object(just like I said) from a hot gun; to a kid who took his mask off during the game. I mean, unless you just happen to drop the occasional screw into your hopper.


I didn't see in the article where it specified the gun was hot or the velocity screw was removed. Neither was the type of marker specified. However, if the marker was a Spyder clone, removing the velocity screw would decrease velocity as it decreased the pressure on the spring and would not result in a hot gun. If the marker was a Tippmann or BE, removing the velocity screw would also decrease velocity as air pressure would be lost through the screw hole.

Of course, neither of these may apply if there is further info I have not found yet.

Edited Note: Additionally, the gun would probably not need to be hot for a pointed object to be dangerous. The much smaller intial contact area of the projectile concentrates the kinetic energy onto a single point as opposed to dispersing it like a paintball shaped projectile does.


Edited by Mack - 15 February 2007 at 1:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2007 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:


Are you really that dumb?  You do know that screws are extremely sharp at the point right? Not only that, but the marker that was fired from had it velocity screw removed. 

I fail to see how you linking to an instance of a young child dying due to a sharp object(just like I said) from a hot gun; to a kid who took his mask off during the game. I mean, unless you just happen to drop the occasional screw into your hopper.


I didn't see in the article where it specified the gun was hot or the velocity screw was removed. Neither was the type of marker specified. However, if the marker was a Spyder clone, removing the velocity screw would decrease velocity as it decreased the pressure on the spring and would not result in a hot gun. If the marker was a Tippmann or BE, removing the velocity screw would also decrease velocity as air pressure would be lost through the screw hole.

Of course, neither of these may apply if there is further info I have not found yet.

Edited Note: Additionally, the gun would probably not need to be hot for a pointed object to be dangerous. The much smaller intial contact area of the projectile concentrates the kinetic energy onto a single point as opposed to dispersing it like a paintball shaped projectile does.


Removing the velocity screw on a Tippmann(ProCarbines at least) increases velocity.  Riot squads using pepperballs and other deterrents use this method to increase effectiveness.  The gun used was some type of tippmann, as the case was all over PBN when it happened.


Originally posted by Langside Langside wrote:

Right he said that it was NOT paint in the marker. That is why I said he COULD has been killed.


He said the "bruce," and while I don't know what he is referring to, I would assume it is slang for paint. Seeing as he is mentioning playing in an actual game, and not just goofing off.


Edited by usafpilot07 - 15 February 2007 at 1:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote $400 98custom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2007 at 3:53pm
the velocity screw doesnt matter.  the idiot was still dumb enough to put a foreign object into the gun and shoot it at a little kid.  ppl r just too dumb nowadays
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2007 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by $400 98custom $400 98custom wrote:

the velocity screw doesnt matter.  the idiot was still dumb enough to put a foreign object into the gun and shoot it at a little kid.  ppl r just too dumb nowadays




If the velocity screw hadn't been removed, the gun could have been shooting at LEAST 150 fps slower....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2007 at 5:09pm
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Removing the velocity screw on a Tippmann(ProCarbines at least) increases velocity.  Riot squads using pepperballs and other deterrents use this method to increase effectiveness.  The gun used was some type of tippmann, as the case was all over PBN when it happened.


The velocity screw on stock Tippmann 98s, A5s and X7s works by interrupting the airflow between the valve and the chamber. In essence, when the screw is screwed farther in, it blocks the air passage and slows the rate/volume of air release. The same amount of air is released, but the rate is effected. It's been awhile since I got rid of my Pro-Carbine and 68 Carbine, but I seem to remember them working in the same way.

With this in mind, you can crank the velocity up on a Tippmann by turning the screw out. However, once the screw no longer protrudes into the air flow, no further gain in velocity is achieved. In fact, it is contended that a slight velocity loss could occur from going past this point (approximately 4 turns out from all the way in) because a negative void is created in the air chamber which allows further expansion of the released propellant, thus reducing chamber pressure. At a certain point, if the screw is backed out far enough, air leakage around the velocity screw could also have a negative effect on velocity.

Now, if you remove the screw entirely, you just left an opening of approximately 7mm in diameter for your propellant gasses to leak out of without propelling the projectile. When you consider that the approximate barrel diameter is 20mm, you have avout 25% of your propelling gasses being wasted by direct venting into the atmosphere.

All in all, I don't see how removing the velocity screw from a Tippmann would increase the velocity.

As a side note on the Pepperball markers, I remember reading when they first came out that the internals/springs had been strengthened for Law Enforcement use. They had a warning at the time that the markers could not be safely used for regular paintball play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2007 at 5:25pm
Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Removing the velocity screw on a Tippmann(ProCarbines at least) increases velocity.  Riot squads using pepperballs and other deterrents use this method to increase effectiveness.  The gun used was some type of tippmann, as the case was all over PBN when it happened.


The velocity screw on stock Tippmann 98s, A5s and X7s works by interrupting the airflow between the valve and the chamber. In essence, when the screw is screwed farther in, it blocks the air passage and slows the rate/volume of air release. The same amount of air is released, but the rate is effected. It's been awhile since I got rid of my Pro-Carbine and 68 Carbine, but I seem to remember them working in the same way.

With this in mind, you can crank the velocity up on a Tippmann by turning the screw out. However, once the screw no longer protrudes into the air flow, no further gain in velocity is achieved. In fact, it is contended that a slight velocity loss could occur from going past this point (approximately 4 turns out from all the way in) because a negative void is created in the air chamber which allows further expansion of the released propellant, thus reducing chamber pressure. At a certain point, if the screw is backed out far enough, air leakage around the velocity screw could also have a negative effect on velocity.

Now, if you remove the screw entirely, you just left an opening of approximately 7mm in diameter for your propellant gasses to leak out of without propelling the projectile. When you consider that the approximate barrel diameter is 20mm, you have avout 25% of your propelling gasses being wasted by direct venting into the atmosphere.

All in all, I don't see how removing the velocity screw from a Tippmann would increase the velocity.

As a side note on the Pepperball markers, I remember reading when they first came out that the internals/springs had been strengthened for Law Enforcement use. They had a warning at the time that the markers could not be safely used for regular paintball play.


The negative effect of the void would be negligible after the first few shots.

This is just a rough sketch, but it should show what I mean.



In the top image, it would represent having a velocity screw screwed in.  This forces air molecules through a reduced space. 

But, in the lower image, it shows that the amount of airflow gained by  removing the velocity screw is greater than the amount of air molecules that can escape through the gap.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2007 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Removing the velocity screw on a Tippmann(ProCarbines at least) increases velocity.  Riot squads using pepperballs and other deterrents use this method to increase effectiveness.  The gun used was some type of tippmann, as the case was all over PBN when it happened.


The velocity screw on stock Tippmann 98s, A5s and X7s works by interrupting the airflow between the valve and the chamber. In essence, when the screw is screwed farther in, it blocks the air passage and slows the rate/volume of air release. The same amount of air is released, but the rate is effected. It's been awhile since I got rid of my Pro-Carbine and 68 Carbine, but I seem to remember them working in the same way.

With this in mind, you can crank the velocity up on a Tippmann by turning the screw out. However, once the screw no longer protrudes into the air flow, no further gain in velocity is achieved. In fact, it is contended that a slight velocity loss could occur from going past this point (approximately 4 turns out from all the way in) because a negative void is created in the air chamber which allows further expansion of the released propellant, thus reducing chamber pressure. At a certain point, if the screw is backed out far enough, air leakage around the velocity screw could also have a negative effect on velocity.

Now, if you remove the screw entirely, you just left an opening of approximately 7mm in diameter for your propellant gasses to leak out of without propelling the projectile. When you consider that the approximate barrel diameter is 20mm, you have avout 25% of your propelling gasses being wasted by direct venting into the atmosphere.

All in all, I don't see how removing the velocity screw from a Tippmann would increase the velocity.

As a side note on the Pepperball markers, I remember reading when they first came out that the internals/springs had been strengthened for Law Enforcement use. They had a warning at the time that the markers could not be safely used for regular paintball play.


The negative effect of the void would be negligible after the first few shots.

This is just a rough sketch, but it should show what I mean.



In the top image, it would represent having a velocity screw screwed in.  This forces air molecules through a reduced space. 

But, in the lower image, it shows that the amount of airflow gained by  removing the velocity screw is greater than the amount of air molecules that can escape through the gap.


It's a nice picture, but basic math and fluid dynamics prove it incorrect.

One thing I should have mentioned earlier that probably makes the velocity argument moot anyway is that it is doubtful that a good screw to barrel match was achieved. It wasn't the velocity that made the screw dangerous, it was its shape and density.

Edited Note: Your pics prove my point. Note in your illustration that if you back the velocity screw out to where it is flush with the inside of the tube, you have unobstructed and complete air flow. In the second pic, where it is removed, you still have unobstructed airflow but not complete airflow.


Edited by Mack - 15 February 2007 at 9:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Langside Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2007 at 3:12am
Last year I was playin and I lost my A5 screw and it was shooting at 280 - 310. I was confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyberdemon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2007 at 5:16pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote General_Lee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2007 at 12:19pm

As I'm not stupid enough to shoot foreign objects from my A5 I have tried and with good results... sometimes... inserting another PAINTBALL down the barrel  so it contacts the first, then shooting both .....  it works accuratley sometimes... not always

its easier and works better to just go full auto.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Black_Shadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2007 at 8:07am
Originally posted by General_Lee General_Lee wrote:

As I'm not stupid enough to shoot foreign objects from my A5 I have tried and with good results... sometimes... inserting another PAINTBALL down the barrel  so it contacts the first, then shooting both .....  it works accuratley sometimes... not always

its easier and works better to just go full auto.

 



Not to mention you don't have to risk breaking a ball shoving it down your barrel..

i do know someone who has shot marbles out of their gun, it scratched up the inside of the barrel, and did some wicked damage to the wood he was aiming at...

Its stupid to put stuff in your gun that doesn't belong... anyone dumb enough to do it should not be allowed to own a PAINTBALL gun
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Langside Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2007 at 1:37pm

Hamster in barrel... Messy.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Black_Shadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2007 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by Langside Langside wrote:

Hamster in barrel... Messy.



One of my friends wanted to try his hamster in his spud gun once...

thankfully the hamster was sleeping in his cage and out of reach of my friend...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Commander_Cool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2007 at 12:46pm

The hamster would have been humourous....

1) paintballs are not lethal, but cause damage when fired at sensitive soft tissues (eyes, and the tissue behind the eyes), they are dangerous but not lethal, I don't know what the result would be if the velocity was cranked WAY up and fired at point black range at the human eye, though.

2) shooting other things out of your gun is dangerous,..

things such as screws are denser, stronger, and have a sharp point that concentrated all of the energy at a single point. As a result they will not break apart like a paintball, and the impact is not spread over a a larger area. You can die or be seriously injured from shooting objects such as screws out of your gun.

I do not know the effects of shooting objects that wont easily break apart such as marbles. I would imagine that they would travel at a slower speed than paintballs, but that the velocity could always be increased, bringing the object up to a speed where it is dangerous (more so than a paintball since it will not break on impact).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MeanMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2007 at 7:38pm

I just heard, in our school's Lifetime Fitness gym class,(you go paintballing in it), a person brought a marble to school, put it in one of the guns and shot it at a roll of carpeting.

If only i was there and knew about it.  I guess the stupid kid shot another kid in the back of the head when no one had masks on.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote netramakin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2007 at 9:56am

Originally posted by an94 an94 wrote:

well Id say the potato would be quite accurate with good tater to barrel match.

That's the funniest thing I've read all week.

At my local Wal-mart, on the same rack with the paintball stuff, they sell steel shot that looks about the size of a paintball.  I always wondered if you could shoot it successfully and how long it would take for some idiot to kill someone with one.



Edited by netramakin - 02 March 2007 at 1:49pm

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