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tallen702 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2006 at 4:18pm
A Karnivor Trigger is just a Planet Eclipse E2 Eblade w/ Solenoid. They don't make them anymore, so you have to buy them used or NIB from e-bay or some other source.

Timing, in essence is setting at which point in the trigger stroke on an autococker the following happen:
  • The hammer is set in motion to strike the valve
  • The 3-way valve actuates the rearward stroke of the ram
  • How quickly the ram propels the back block rearward
  • How far rearward the bolt, cocking rod, and back block are pushed
  • How quickly and with how much pressure the back block and bolt are brough forward
  • Where the sear catches the hammer on the return stroke


There are a lot of factors that determine all of this. What type of 3-way you are using, or if you are using one at all. What type of sear, sear/hammer lug, do you have an adjustable lpr, total operating pressure, even down to what type of bolt and how light your back-block is. The main things that you should concern yourself with though, are the following:
  • How far you pull the trigger to make the marker fire
  • How much further past the fire point you have to pull to make the marker re-cock
  • Are the two points close enough together to keep you from "short stroking" the marker?
  • Are they so close that you loose velocity because the hammer doesn't fully drop?
  • Is the whole cycle so far forward that the hammer doesn't properly catch on the sear?


Yeah, I know it's a lot to digest and learn, but like I said, take your time, read the manual. And if you go mech-cocker, see if you can't get your hands on "Autococker Trix". It's an old VHS tape there Budd takes you through how a 'cocker works, how to time it, etc. Very very very informative and easy to learn from as they use cut-aways, etc.
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We have a winner!

Edited by tallen702 - 04 December 2006 at 4:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2006 at 4:40pm

no i meant upgrade triggers

and timing sounds complicated.... i guess i can only dream of fixing timings at the twist of an allen key?

i'm not going mech.

is there anything else good around the $700 range that i would be better with?

and to carry over to this page:

and looking on action village, how do i know what upgrades will work on a karnivor?

http://www.actionvillage.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/S tore/en/-/USD/BrowseCatalog-Start;sid=sIOIphO52hCIIlbNOZFIDh lwzkt0UmTCzxk=?CategoryName=paintball-gun-parts-and-upgrades -autococker-gun-upgrades



Edited by carl_the_sniper - 04 December 2006 at 4:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2006 at 5:12pm
anything except a 3-way, and you don't need to upgrade the trigger if you're electro. If someone makes a different board, that's about all you can do. Everything else will work in the marker with the exception of any pre '01 bolts.

My suggestion:
Shocktech or Belsales LP Valve
AKALMP Matched springs
Delrin bolt and back-block
palmer's quikram
mini-rock lpr (adjustable)
and a good inline reg
everything else from that point on is mainly aesthetics

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2006 at 6:04pm

i am planning on running high pressure tank through it, do i need high pressure regs?

 

what about the stiffi bolt?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2006 at 6:35pm
Alright, there are two regulators on a 'Cocker. An Inline (high pressure) reg and a LPR (Low pressure regulator.) The two regulators do two very separate things. The Inline regulator takes the incoming air pressure (800-850 on a preset tank) and brings it down to a pressure that the marker can operate at (usually around 600psi input). The air enters the valve chamber and is diverted both to the valve and the front block from there. As it is, 600psi would blow the lines off your ram and sieze up your 3-way (if not blow both parts up). The LPR takes the pressure down from whatever the inline regulator sets it to and brings it down to under 100psi so that the ram and 3-way can operate under suitable conditions. I believe that WGP still includes the inline reg in their new markers. They did when I bought my first 'cocker and seeing the direction they've gone, I'm sure they still do. The LPR is already on your marker as it is a basic piece of hardware needed to run the marker. It is not adjustable though. When you start running at a lower than normal operating pressure (like my 225psi) you need an adjustable LPR to lessen the ammount of bleed-off the front block takes to operate the pneumatics. It also helps to have an adjustable lpr to set how far back your back-block moves (no need to have it move farther than needed right?) and adjust the pressure at which the ram operates (which will help keep the marker "snappy" but keep it from chopping balls if you set it right). Some 3-ways also require different input rates. The palmer's quikswitch, for example, requires a higher pressure than a shocktech bomb to seat all the o-rings properly. Of course, if you go with an electro-trigger and solenoid combination (like the karnivor) you don't need to worry about 3-ways, but may find the solenoid operates better under lower pressures.

As for the stiffi bolt, I haven't used one, but the reviews rave about it. The price-tag seems a bit expensive though. The lack of needing to lube it is a big plus, and you'll see less wear on it due to it's composite construction.

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P.S. You'll need this

Trust me on this.

Edited by tallen702 - 04 December 2006 at 6:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2006 at 10:15pm

100% necessary?

like i should buy that that the time of buying a cocker or can i wait a few weeks?

and does anyone think a 88 is too big? maybe a 68 is better?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2006 at 11:02am
you can buy it later on, you'll just need it eventually.

88ci is what I run with, you need a long drop forward, hence the none-too-pretty one that is on my 'cocker. If you want more versatility in looks, go with a 68ci
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2006 at 4:04pm

ok though the 88 is less money (completely retarted) i said i'd prefer a 68 but either is fine

so will i hve any problem shouldering a 68?

is it possible to shoulder a 88?

 

without a drop i mean



Edited by carl_the_sniper - 05 December 2006 at 4:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2006 at 4:51pm
well, the 88's gonna be like playing with an old pro-lite your 'cocker is going to be more like a rifle than the speedball marker it is built to be. Same with the 68ci really. I'd just invest in a drop.

http://airsoldier.com/~haveblue/tech/autococker/

Above is a good site to see the workings and cut aways of a cocker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2006 at 5:07pm

wow.... complicated

i will get a drop though

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ShortyBP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2006 at 5:09pm
Is it a standard "fat" 88, or an older less-common long 88 like my old Conquest?

If it's a fatty, it won't be much longer than a 68ci. It'll just be...   fatter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2006 at 5:19pm
stoopid fatties.... ain't got nuttin on my Armageddon!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2006 at 5:27pm

action village has it at an inch longer

so im guessing it's a fatty

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2006 at 9:53pm
Action village gots some certified alabama blacksnake goin' on apparently!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MeanMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2006 at 3:43pm

I have a long 88 crossfire, and i have to say, it is massive and i wish i didnt buy it,

I would of gotten a stubby, a new one at that.

With what ive had to fix on it i could of bought a new one, and its up for hydro in January, man was i stupid

thats what i get for not waiting


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2006 at 5:21pm

ok

im pretty sure im either getting a 68 or a halo for christmas.

but it could be both

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RicWhic414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 December 2006 at 8:59am
I got a 68 from a kid who quit paintball, the tank is in perfect condition and it still has a year and a half before hydro so if you look around long enough you can find good deals. Also I only paid 100 bucks for it and its a PMI tank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2006 at 7:48pm

ok

so you mentioned about how they stopped making the e2 framed karnivors...

what happens after they are all gone?



Edited by carl_the_sniper - 22 December 2006 at 7:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hybrid-sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2006 at 8:57pm

They've been coming with SF frames for a while now.

When E2s are gone, that's it unless you buy used. And they're already gone.



Edited by hybrid-sniper - 22 December 2006 at 8:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2006 at 9:40pm

not on action village, still there

but what's wrong with the sf?

 

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