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Fin-Stabilization and Hopper Loading

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2006 at 12:06am
But the thing is going to get jostled going down the feed elbow. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2006 at 12:19am
YWSM is a member here. "You Won't See Me." He has the same avatar.
Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Innkeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2006 at 2:20am

Originally posted by Monk Monk wrote:

But the thing is going to get jostled going down the feed elbow. 

Paintballs get jostled as they slide down the feed. As long as they stay faced, its not a problem. Also, there will be some spring tension from the magazine that will prevent them from getting obnoxiously out of kilter.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Innkeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2006 at 2:21am

Originally posted by DeTrevni DeTrevni wrote:

YWSM is a member here. "You Won't See Me." He has the same avatar.

Perhaps I should change mine, then.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Innkeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2006 at 5:42pm

Feed elbow, Mk I:

I went a little overzealous on the tooling, and the upper channel is a bit much. I have another, or I can get some epoxy clay and retro fit it. On that note, since I don't have a large selection of tools, I could use the clay as a smoothing agent for finishing.

Bottom view:

 

Top View:

 

Again:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmts58 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2006 at 8:09pm
im thinking break open pb gun
tippmann 98c
dop pro seal
expansion chamber
vertical adapter
dop double trigger
cyclone feed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2006 at 11:23pm
Originally posted by cmts58 cmts58 wrote:

im thinking break open pb gun


Or modify a marker to accept the drum feed in the same way the Thompson submachine guns did.* It would require either a longer bolt travel (to push the projectile forward out of the magazine and into the chamber), or a strengthened magazine where each separate location for the ammo actually acted as the chamber (like a revolver cylinder) during operation.



*Whoa, that's a lot of dremeling!


Edited by Mack - 30 November 2006 at 11:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Innkeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2006 at 3:11am

Look at the FN-303. That is exactly what it does, and it is exactly what I am trying to avoid.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2006 at 6:45pm
Originally posted by The Innkeeper The Innkeeper wrote:

Look at the FN-303. That is exactly what it does, and it is exactly what I am trying to avoid.



  • Which is exactly what it does? (Uses drum as chamber or has a long bolt travel)
  • Why, exactly, are you trying to avoid it? (Whichever applies)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Innkeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2006 at 6:56pm

Drum as chamber.

Avoiding it because it would ruin the marker for normal paintballs.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmts58 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2006 at 7:18pm
the only way this would work is if you swung the elbow away on a 98,then maually loaded a round....still either drum,breakopen or etc....
tippmann 98c
dop pro seal
expansion chamber
vertical adapter
dop double trigger
cyclone feed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Innkeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2006 at 12:39am

Right...

Why is there always just "the only way" to do something?



Edited by The Innkeeper - 02 December 2006 at 6:17am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2006 at 1:39pm
Originally posted by The Innkeeper The Innkeeper wrote:

Drum as chamber.

Avoiding it because it would ruin the marker for normal paintballs.



Okay, since this drum seems like it could also be used for normal paintballs, I'm going to assume you mean that you don't want to alter the marker to where it would no longer work with a hopper. Is this correct?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Innkeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2006 at 2:49pm
Correct, as I said in my opening statement, and at least one other time on Page 1 of this thread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2006 at 4:38pm
I think you have your work cut out for you. I think you will find that you will not only have to mill the inside of the adapter to allow passage of the projectiles, but will also have to ensure the adapter is the right length (in relation to the projectile width) to prevent binding between the projectiles and the feed cylinders.

On a related note, do you envision this to eventually be a side mounted, or more a top mounted magazine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Innkeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2006 at 4:56pm

Check, and check.

More of a side mount, I suppose. I am trying to keep it in line with where standard hoppers are mounted now, along with being backwards compatible, to make this idea as palatable (sp) as possible.

I think I have some pics of the relationships.

Of course, if you want to mail me a marker, that would drastically speed up the process...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Innkeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2006 at 6:06pm

Pics of the tenative mounting position:

 

Side view, would be as if sighting down the marker:

 

Outboard view:

 

Top view:

 

I hope this clears some things up.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2006 at 6:49pm
Outstanding pics-clears much up. 

I know what I'm going to mention next is probably not what you had in mind, but here it goes:

If the 98 adapter could be made a part of each magizine, the user could pre-load that section with ammo (which would provide an extra shot or two) and possibly avoid any jamming problems caused a single round falling down the adapter and getting turned around. Theoretically, after that, the rounds would all stay lined up by pressure as another one is added to the stack after each is fired.

On a different aspect of this mod, do you forsee any stress being put on the mounting points by the weight of the magazine? (Not having held one, I have no basis for comparison to a 200 round hopper.)

One final note: While I don't see this catching on with speedball folks, a working version would probably catch on with the woodsball sniper crowd. This could be the beginning of the technology that makes long range sniping a reality.  Very nice work so far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Innkeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2006 at 8:20pm

I have thought of going that path with the system. the only problem that I see for it to become a viable alternative to my original idea is that there is no way to keep the rounds from falling out. It would be a quick switch to change out the magazines in this manner, but without a retetion system, they would just roll out from the spring pressure in the magazine. While I am sure a retention system could be thought up without to much effort, I want to get the principle here taken care of before I worry about something else. That whole "baby steps" thing. I have an idea to keep them from emptying out of the magazine, before they reach the feed elbow, but I think that idea will only be a stop-gap measure for now.

While my friend and I were messing around with the elbow and some FN rounds, they seemed to slide down the elbow fairly easily, in the corrrect positioning, once i managed to file the rough edges from the tooling away. This bodes well that once i can manage to get things sized, milled and polished properly, that it actually has a decent chance of working. Fingers already crossed.

I do not have actual weights of a fully loaded hopper vs. a full 303 magazine, with regular PBs. If you happen to have the time, finding out how much a regulation hopper with 200 rounds weighs would be very useful. Figure the mag and the hopper are the same weight, and the mag carries 15 8.5g rounds. The very rough math yields that the regulation hopper with 200 rounds actually weighs more.

I really don't see SB players ever using this, not with them depleting a hopper in 10 seconds. There would be no use. The volume of paint needed in a speedball match makes this concept DOA for them.

While probably most ideal for the PB "sniper", even those that want a more skillfull version of the game will find this appealing.



Edited by The Innkeeper - 02 December 2006 at 8:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2006 at 9:00pm

Random though/question.

Are you intending to do this only on the Tippmann 98? or are you planning on doing this to other markers as well?

Also, since the modded feed elbow clearly wont hold a regular hopper tightly anymore, why not just make a mounting on the actual mag to go dirrectly into the gun instead of through the medium of the feed elbow? this would reduce more of the "fuzzy" guess work and modding a feed elbow. also it would make the mag not stick out so much.

another thing to consider is just a straight down feed, ignoring the big old drum. many people complain about the target area on the cyclone, while that drum will cause even more problems like that
I know this wont appeal to you probably but I would suggest just a straight vertical tube that you put into your feed elbow.
again I know the idea of a giant tube sticking 6" out the top of your gun doesnt sound appealing, but it makes the idea much easier to produce/manufacture and eliminates alot of stuff that could go wrong.

But this is a very interesting idea that you have. I kinda wonder what sort of range you would get. a bit conserned about what sort of volocity differences you would see if you shot a fin round then a regular round one.



Edited by Snick - 02 December 2006 at 9:07pm
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