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Fin-Stabilization and Hopper Loading

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Innkeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2006 at 7:14pm

Originally posted by SSOK SSOK wrote:

Very creative. However, I would just mill out a 98c where the grip out, and have a magazine in there. However, you would need to re-locate the ball latch and you could never use a hopper again.

That is basically what the FN303 has, and I am trying to avoid that at all costs because, as you said, it could never use a hopper again. I want to have the minimum amount of milling done to the actual 98C itself, as I am looking at it being able to use both standard and fin rounds interchangably.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Innkeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2006 at 7:18pm

Originally posted by cmts58 cmts58 wrote:

the fins would cut people

Paintballs cut people already. I have the scars to prove it. Without proper PPE, there is always the risk of injury from this type of sport. I am aware of the possibly increased danger due to the fins, but an idea has to be tried before it is judged as a failure.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Innkeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2006 at 7:24pm

Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

On the point of a Magazine, it seems like that would be much more feasible as to ensuring that the "round" fits into the breach correct each time. If I get a chance, I'll sketch it up in MS_P later.

That would be awesome to see if you do. What I have been able to see so far is that if I were to use the magazine to seat the round into the breach, I would just be modifying the idea from the 303 to fit into a civilian PB marker, and that would ruin the marker for anything other than fin rounds. I would love to see what you are thinking.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Innkeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2006 at 7:33pm

Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

Originally posted by cmts58 cmts58 wrote:

does anybody realize...this is a paintball.refs are not going to allow ANYTHING like this.ever.anything that has the mass to be affected by fins is way to dangerous to shoot at people...


Utterly incorrect. Paintballs already have more than enough mass to be affected by fins

The refs will allow what the rules dictate. Thats what the refs do. Will this type of round be allowed immediately after I manage to provide a "proof of concept"? Very doubtful, but it will be there on the table as an option to discuss. What people are and aren't willing to have thrown at their bodies at varying speeds is up for debate, and as long as the safety equipment we have in place is still able to provide the level of protection that is required, then there should not be too much of a brough-haha about actually fielding the paint.

3g is less than 8.5g the fins were originally designed for, but that's why it's called R+D.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmts58 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2006 at 8:11pm

what would these fins be constructed out of?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Innkeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2006 at 11:15pm
Originally posted by cmts58 cmts58 wrote:

what would these fins be constructed out of?

Gelatin, just like the rest of the shell.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Innkeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2006 at 11:34pm

This is the shape of the ammo:

 

 

A close-up of an OC round:

 

FN303 and its "magazine with round in breach" loading style:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmts58 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2006 at 11:35pm
then would they be strong enough to support themselves?im just worried about some getting shot across their throat and now their dead,and our beloved sport has a bad reputation,now kids hear"dont play paintball,you might die"and that would be bad,granted a good idea,just not feasable
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmts58 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2006 at 11:38pm
ohh...the impact would be too intense...thats is a less than lethal device to incapacitate a suspect.i understand it runs on co2...what is the velocity?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Innkeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2006 at 1:11am

That is what I am trying to figure out. If things need tweaked, then you tweak, and see if the finished product is what you need. And then you tweak again if its not.

What hsppens now when someone is throat-shot? Right, they get up, shake it off, catch their breath, and go play another game. Isnt that why there is a market for throat guards, now?

 PBs are designed to break on impact. This will still be the case. I am not trying to use LE rounds for PB; I want to adapt useful military tech so our sport reaps some of the rewards of that money already spent. 

The impact from a 303 round is so traumatic because it is 8.5g of bismuth, plastic and paint hitting you @ 300 FPS. That almost 3x the mass of a standard PB. If the new PB rounds are still 3g, there will be no change in the "intensity" of the impact (F=MxV).

It runs on CA.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmts58 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2006 at 1:27am
ohhh....i thought you were gonna fire the paint filled version of this prolectile during paintball games...and by the way,FN also produces a under barrel version of this device,so maybe you should look at that for modding,a lot less tweaking would be necessary
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmts58 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2006 at 1:42am

The FN 303 is designed to be the premier system for situations requiring a less lethal response. Completely dedicated to reducing lethality and liability, the basis of the FN 303 concept lies in its unique ammunition. The .68 caliber, 8.5 gram projectile utilizes a fin-stabilized polystyrene body and non-toxic bismuth forward payload to provide both better accuracy and greater effective range than other less lethal systems. The primary effect of the projectile is temporary, superficial trauma to help neutralize the aggressor. In addition, secondary effects from the projectiles can be delivered via a chemical payload depending on specific mission requirements. Magazines contain 15 rounds and have a clear rear cover to allow rapid ammunition payload verification. The compressed air-powered FN 303 launcher is designed to fire less lethal projectiles exclusively and has enough air capacity to launch 110 individual shots with an effective range of 50 meters at a point specific target. It is constructed from durable, lightweight polymer offering comfortable ergonomics and an easy to operate safety. Along with the flip-up iron sights is an integrated M1913 rail that can be used to mount red dot sights and other accessories. An undercarriage mount is also available for the M4 and M16 style tactical rifles.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Innkeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2006 at 4:01am

Nope, that would be disasterous. As entertaining as it might be to take your 20-something buddies out and light them up with non-lethal, it would not go over too well with dad who just saw his son get knocked out by one.

The rounds would be completely gelatin and fill, not plastic, metal or other non-PB materials.

The under-slung version of the 303 is nothing more than the standard 303 with the detachable stock removed, and then mounted to the M-16 mounted rail, a la M-203. As handy as it might be on my M-16, it doesn't do anything for me in this design process, as the actual design of the 303 has not changed any.

 



Edited by The Innkeeper - 24 November 2006 at 4:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmts58 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2006 at 12:52pm
but it would be easier to use the standalone launcher,then just develop some new projectiles...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmts58 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2006 at 12:56pm
and i prefer LESS TRHAN LETHAL....these might not intend to kill,but they can...one of our recruits shot a drunken suspect in the heart with a 12 ga. bean bagfrom 20 yds...stopped it cold
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Innkeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2006 at 5:10pm

Either way, new projectiles will have to be developed. The LTL cannot be used for a game, regardless of the item used to launch them. And, if you decide to use the launcher, what good is it without the ammunition it was designed for?

New PB rounds need to be developed for this idea to come to full fruition.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmts58 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2006 at 5:14pm
what are these new projectiles designed to improve.range,accuarcy,what are you improving with fin stabilization?maybe a fin stabilized paint rocket shot outta a tube rpg style?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Innkeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2006 at 5:46pm

Mostly accuracy. Extra range would be a bonus, but not the driving force behind the idea.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2006 at 6:03pm
While this is by far the most successful "fin stabilization" thead I've seen in a while, I would like to point out to participating forumers, ther is an "edit" button.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Innkeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2006 at 6:09pm

Originally posted by DeTrevni DeTrevni wrote:

While this is by far the most successful "fin stabilization" thead I've seen in a while, I would like to point out to participating forumers, ther is an "edit" button.

 

Yup, there sure is.

Sorry. I couldn't help myself.

/End spelling-Naziing....

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