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Death Penalty.

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Gatyr View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2006 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:

Cons:

4. Killing should not be revenged by more killing.
5. Brutalizes society.
8. Killing someone should be considered to be cruel and unusual. We have rules against that.


Yay speculated opinion. And it is hardly unusual, cruel as it may be.

I would be all for it if the process was much quicker, and it were possible to prove with no doubt to an unbiased jury, but I'd sooner be allowed to spit in Dubya's eyes that those two things ever occur.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skillet42565 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2006 at 8:36pm
I think a lot of you speak from a point of view, when you have had no experience in the field.  If it was your family member who was murdered, you would want justice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oreomann33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2006 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by Skillet42565 Skillet42565 wrote:

I think a lot of you speak from a point of view, when you have had no experience in the field.  If it was your family member who was murdered, you would want revenge.


Fixed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote battlefreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2006 at 8:39pm
justice
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2006 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by Gatyr Gatyr wrote:



I would be all for it if the process was much quicker, and it were possible to prove with no doubt to an unbiased jury,


And I am the only one with the speculation?

Capital punishment works in a happy utopia land where everyone is absolutely proven guilty with no doubt at all, and we can magically wave a wand to kill someone.

Quicker is not better in this situation. Adds more problems with possible innocence, and assurance of a fair trial.

And yes, those points were opinion, but they are opinions many people share. I tend to think killing someone is a cruel thing to do, which is why we should punish someone who did it with being in jail. Killing back does not help the situation.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2006 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by Skillet42565 Skillet42565 wrote:

If it was your family member who was murdered, you would want justice.


The crutch of all Pro-Death arguments.

I would want justice. I would want it in the form of a life sentence in a federal prison.

I am not wishy-washy on my beliefs. If someone killed my family, I would want them punished. Life in prison is a justification.

When did it become "If you don't want to kill someone you might as well let them go?"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skillet42565 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2006 at 8:45pm
Life in prison is a joke these days.  Aside from the general problems, you get all kinds of other stuff that shouldn't be in prisons.  Its like a resort for sex offenders and killers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yomillio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2006 at 8:45pm
I believe it should be "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth".  If you kill someone, and it is 100% proven that you in fact did commit the said crime, then and only then should you be put to death.  I think we should have a more money-efficent way of inflicting the death-penalty on someone, however.  The ways most killers murder is, lets face it, just plain brutal.  Why do they get a quick, fairly painless death?  And why should they be allowed to live?  I think if we overcome the "leathal-injection" and move into more fitting and cost efficent death penalties, death for murder would be much more practical.  Yes, i know that right now it makes more financial sense to lock someone up for the rest of their life, but it just isnt a harsh enough punishment for what they have done.  People may not realize just how good a life people in jail have.  They get free college level courses, cable TV, and other typical life-luxeries.  They get medical care, and are treated nicely.  This probably seems like "yeah, okay, so whats your point?"  I just don't see how this is all that much of a punishment.  Sure, you dont get free choice over everything, but the person someone murdered will never get to do anything, enjoy any luxeries of life, ever again.

Edited by Yomillio - 17 October 2006 at 8:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2006 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by Skillet42565 Skillet42565 wrote:

Life in prison is a joke these days.  Aside from the general problems, you get all kinds of other stuff that shouldn't be in prisons.  Its like a resort for sex offenders and killers.


1) I am all for reforming the life sentence. Life should be Life. 99 year minimum. I agree 100%


Capital Punishment Fallacy Numero Dos: Prisons are a happy place.

2) That is downright laughable. "Resort?" When is the last time you saw the inside of a federal prison? I suggest you take a trip, or maybe watch one of the 34785478567 documentary's available about life in prison. Or maybe PM some of the forumers who have been prison guards. It is not some cozy hide away.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote battlefreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2006 at 8:52pm
Originally posted by Yomillio Yomillio wrote:

I believe it should be "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth". If you kill someone, and it is 100% proven that you in fact did commit the said crime, then and only then should you be put to death. I think we should have a more money-efficent way of inflicting the death-penalty on someone, however. The ways most killers murder is, lets face it, just plain brutal. Why do they get a quick, fairly painless death? And why should they be allowed to live? I think if we overcome the "leathal-injection" and move into more fitting and cost efficent death penalties, death for murder would be much more practical. Yes, i know that right now it makes more financial sense to lock someone up for the rest of their life, but it just isnt a harsh enough punishment for what they have done. People may not realize just how good a life people in jail have. They get free college level courses, cable TV, and other typical life-luxeries. They get medical care, and are treated nicely. This probably seems like "yeah, okay, so whats your point?" I just don't see how this is all that much of a punishment. Sure, you dont get free choice over everything, but the person someone murdered will never get to do anything, enjoy any luxeries of life, ever again.
vary good point
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GI JOES SON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2006 at 8:53pm

Originally posted by Kristofer Kristofer wrote:

Originally posted by battlefreak battlefreak wrote:

im for it except for homocides where it was in self defence or say a father killed someone who killed or raped his daughter or somthing like that.


damn straight. i think rapists deserve it. especially repeat offenders.

those are usually let off as crimes done under duress, i remember hearing about a girl who was molested by her step dad and she stabbed him to death, got off with no charges from what i recall

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote battlefreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2006 at 8:56pm
i saw a thing were this guy raped and murderd a 19 year old girl and during the court trial he kept winking and smiling at her father. So the next court date the father brought a 9mm rapped in newspaper and when the guy smiled at him he shot and killed him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yomillio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2006 at 8:57pm

nice.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2006 at 8:58pm
Originally posted by Yomillio Yomillio wrote:

I think we should have a more money-efficent way of inflicting the death-penalty on someone, however.

It is not the cost of the killing itself. It is the appeals process that is expensive. The appeals process is what makes sure we are really sure we want to kill someone.


 The ways most killers murder is, lets face it, just plain brutal.  Why do they get a quick, fairly painless death?  And why should they be allowed to live?

Because we are not a bunch of mindless killing beasts. We should be the better person. Not to sound cliche, but two wrongs do not a right make. We are a civilized society.

 I think if we overcome the "leathal-injection" and move into more fitting and cost efficent death penalties, death for murder would be much more practical.

We have evolved past this as a society. At least I like to hope so.

 Yes, i know that right now it makes more financial sense to lock someone up for the rest of their life, but it just isnt a harsh enough punishment for what they have done.




 People may not realize just how good a life people in jail have.  They get free college level courses, cable TV, and other typical life-luxeries.  They get medical care, and are treated nicely.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Treated nicely????

Honestly now. Guards yell at you and control everything about you.

  This probably seems like "yeah, okay, so whats your point?"  I just don't see how this is all that much of a punishment. 

You realize that criminals marked as "dangerous" are in-cell 23 hours of the day, right? Thats one hour a day you can be outside.

Sure, you dont get free choice over everything, but the person someone murdered will never get to do anything, enjoy any luxeries of life, ever again.

Which comes down to this, are we using execution as a means of justice and punishment or as blood-thirsty revenge?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote battlefreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2006 at 8:58pm
Originally posted by oreomann33 oreomann33 wrote:

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there are 3 ways to tell if you drunk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2006 at 8:59pm
The court system is based off men, men can be wrong which means that innocent people can be killed. The court is a representation of all of society. When one person gets killed by the court we all kill them. When we wrongly kill an innocent persone we all kill an innocent person.

It's actually up for vote here in Wisconsin in November. I hope to god they loose.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2006 at 8:59pm
Originally posted by battlefreak battlefreak wrote:

i saw a thing were this guy raped and murderd a 19 year old girl and during the court trial he kept winking and smiling at her father. So the next court date the father brought a 9mm rapped in newspaper and when the guy smiled at him he shot and killed him.


And I hope the father spends the rest of his life in prison too. Vigilantism is a bad thing. He killed in cold blood, he is no better off than the original murderer.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2006 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:

And I am the only one with the speculation?

Capital punishment works in a happy utopia land where everyone is absolutely proven guilty with no doubt at all, and we can magically wave a wand to kill someone.

Quicker is not better in this situation. Adds more problems with possible innocence, and assurance of a fair trial.

And yes, those points were opinion, but they are opinions many people share. I tend to think killing someone is a cruel thing to do, which is why we should punish someone who did it with being in jail. Killing back does not help the situation.



Opinions should have nothing to do with whether or not something should be allowed in an instance like this. The other points you provided were good, and I cannot think of a PRO that is not an opinion, but that is probably my lack of knowledge.

And you kind of repeated what I said for me, just without saying you would support it if that utiopia were the case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote battlefreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2006 at 9:02pm
Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:


Originally posted by battlefreak battlefreak wrote:

i saw a thing were this guy raped and murderd a 19 year old girl and during the court trial he kept winking and smiling at her father. So the next court date the father brought a 9mm rapped in newspaper and when the guy smiled at him he shot and killed him.
And I hope the father spends the rest of his life in prison too. Vigilantism is a bad thing. He killed in cold blood, he is no better off than the original murderer.
Thats a horrible position so far youve made good points but thats just ignorant.
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