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.Ryan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 8:54am
Originally posted by jerseypaint jerseypaint wrote:

Would you rather have Kerry?


Absolutely.


Anyway, who's sig was it?

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reifidom View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reifidom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 8:54am
Oh so true. :)

"MTV, please tell me what to think, (Edit->) dog!"

Edited by reifidom - 20 September 2006 at 8:57am

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.Ryan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 8:59am
MTV was just mobilizing a notoriously apethetic group of citizens...I'd rather then getting that sort of thing from MTV than from their damn preacher anyway...


Oh and pred, you really don't want to get into "collateral damage"....

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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 10:24am

Originally posted by Joe Cool Joe Cool wrote:

... gas prices are falling...

I'm amazed that you can say that with a straight face.  That's like saying you got a deal on jewelry because the jeweller took 20% off sticker price "just for you".

Quote ... no terrorist attacks in the continental US in 5 years...

This keeps coming up.  Review US history.  Now post all the 5-year periods, during the entire history of the US, that had more than one terrorist attack on US soil.

While it seems likely that stepped-up intelligence efforts are helpful at avoiding/stopping additional attacks, to point to "ZOMG 5 YEARS" as evidence of anything at all is disingenuous.

Quote ... corporate tax income hit an all new high on the 15th...

Source?

Quote But then again the weak hate a man with the will to win.

Not even sure what to make of that comment.

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Reb Cpl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 11:24am

I find it amusing that even after all this time, you guys thing you can change each other's minds with half-assed arguments, insults and sarcastic wit.....funny though it is.

 

and I do mean both sides.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote XenoSabre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 11:35am
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

I find it amusing that even after all this time, you guys thing you can change each other's minds with half-assed arguments, insults and sarcastic wit.....funny though it is.


 


and I do mean both sides.



Trying to change a persons mind when he is stuck on an idea is a pointless task.

...fun to watch though. I did enjoy the "pwnings" that took place today.
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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 12:01pm
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

I find it amusing that even after all this time, you guys thing you can change each other's minds

Well, I have changed my mind on several issues following discussions on this board.  Nevertheless, you are obviously right to a degree.

But you should not limit the purpose of these discussions merely to the counterparties - the people that are more likely to be swayed are not the entrenched combatants, but rather the undecided readers.  This is all mostly for their benefit.  Even if I can never change Joe Cool's mind on anything, I have still done the work of God if I can influence other readers.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 12:26pm

^^well spoken, and very good point.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

but rather the undecided readers.


/me raises his hand.

Change decided to educated, and my hand would still be in the air.

^_^
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 1:29pm
clark, not that i agree with joe's statement about the terror attacks on US soil in the past 5 years, but i believe he uses it in the context of "since 9/11 showed our vulnerability."
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brihard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 1:39pm
Originally posted by Joe Cool Joe Cool wrote:

brihard at first I thought you were merely a misguided youth. Now I realize your mom was probably smoking crack prior to having you. Iraq was far from stable, unless you consider uprisings, government sanctioned murder and testing of bio weapons on people stable.

   Oh then there was the war with Iran, invasion of Kuwait, then Saudi Arabia....

  Tae Kwon Do, there have yet to be 3000 US service deaths, though your post begs the question, what is your news source?



More Ad Hominem, I see. I find it ironic that you would attack my character, and then in the same sentence accuse my mother of being a drug addict.

Your credibility here is already shot after some fifty posts, but I'll indulge you anyway.

Iraq was absolutely stable- The government had rigid, brutal control over the vast majority of the country, certainly moreso than the U.S. government has control over some of its urban slums. Any discontent or rebellion was brutally and quickly oppressd. Everyone knew who was in charge there, and very few had the guts to try to fight it. Am I saying that's right? Absolutely not. Saddam needd to be taken out for humanitarian reasons. My argument, however, was that the Iraqi people were not yet of a mindset to support the invasion. The U.S. expected to invade as liberators, and isntead they've been treated as occupiers. The Iraqi people - the majority of them - took the situation for granted, and as of yet there was not enough widespread discontent of a uniform nature for Iraq to have a chance of coalescing into a united government once the Sunnis were removed from power.

Iraq's oppression was efficient and effective enough that the resistant part of the population was not yet capable of creating enough isntability to galvanize the general populace into fighting. Iraq was still at the point of sectarian fragmentation held in check by a brutal government. The U.S. had little chance of forming a real peace with such animosity being suppressd under Hussein's rule.

Saddam's crimes such as the gassing of the Kurds, the oppression of the Marsh Arabs, predations on Shi'ites, and other crimes of wartime and peacetime are not signs of instability- they're signs of a tyrranical autocracy. Iraq's economy and society were pretty secure up until the invasion. Don't get me wrong, I still think Saddam had to be taken out. There were, however, miscalculations with regards to timing and strategy. The nation, however, was stable under all internal and external forces at that time, up until that stability was upset by the sudden destruction of the governmnet's ability to project power over its own people.

Tae-Kwon-Do was incorrect. As of yesterday, only 2689 American soldiers have died in Iraq, and another 338 in Afghanistan.

By the way, Iraq never invaded Saudi Arabia, nor even tried to- Operation Desert Shield was transformed into Operation Desert Storm before the Iraqis ever had a chance to try to cross the border.



Lets's sum up. To date you have:

  • Called me a misguided youth. (Opinion and conjecture)
  • Called my mother a crack addict. (Incorrect)
  • Stated I would do poorly in private enterprise. (Speculation)
  • Implied the inherent intelectual inferiority of public service. (Incorrect and rude)
  • Accused me of failing history (Incorrect)
  • Made erroneous statements about the Gulf War and American Civil war. (See previous line for irony)
  • Attempted to draw analogy from British history that wasn't there- botching Henry VIII's last name along the way.
  • Shown deliberate and transparent bias in discussion of religion.
  • Failed to suply concrete evidence to support same.
  • Incorrectly applied economic, historical, and strategic viewpoints to world conflicts. (Excusable- I'll assume you're a victim of your education and political prejudice)
All this in a mere 53 posts. I can't help but think you showed up here with some kind of agenda, though I could be incorrect.

Since you've frequently (and discourteously) attempted to demonstrate what you perceive as your clear intetllectual superiority on this forum, I'll offer you this opportunity to tell us about your educational and professional background, so perhaps to can take back just a tad of that credibility you've so deftly flushed down the toilet?

While you're at it, you've still yet to answer my questions from the other thread, nor to refute any of what I said. There's an accusation still up in the air, something about my having failed history? I'd like you to justify that, please. I'll also gracefully accept an apology for your rather disgusting comments about my mother, should you choose to offer it.

I await your reply.


Edited by brihard - 20 September 2006 at 1:40pm
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

Yup, he actually said that.
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Tae Kwon Do View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:



Tae-Kwon-Do was incorrect. As of yesterday, only 2689 American soldiers have died in Iraq, and another 338 in Afghanistan.



I was using addition. Forgive me.

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Predatorr View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Predatorr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:

Originally posted by Predatorr Predatorr wrote:

Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:



3000+ Deaths since.



collateral damage is unavoidable, you can't take the force of a one ton bomb and make it not kill the little children and innocents. 


No, no, those numbers are soldiers. US soldiers.


again, it's less deaths on our end than in any other war.  Also unavoidable, and you can't directly blame the president for that one.  I have no direct argument, but you still can't blame Bush, he didn't put those soldiers directly in the line of fire. 
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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 3:38pm

Originally posted by Predatorr Predatorr wrote:

...you still can't blame Bush, he didn't put those soldiers directly in the line of fire. 

!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by Predatorr Predatorr wrote:

...you still can't blame Bush, he didn't put those soldiers directly in the line of fire. 

!!



Indeed...
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

Yup, he actually said that.
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Tae Kwon Do View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by Predatorr Predatorr wrote:

...you still can't blame Bush, he didn't put those soldiers directly in the line of fire. 

!!



Indeed...


I was too flabergasted to even respond to it. I have no idea where he was even coming from.

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Apu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Apu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by Kristofer Kristofer wrote:

Originally posted by Apu Apu wrote:

Sigh.. It's called representative democracy. Democracy = run by the will of the people. Representative democracy = A group of people to represent the will of the people.


No I'm pretty sure its considered a republic.
The US = Representative democracy.
I need a new Sig...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by Apu Apu wrote:

Originally posted by Kristofer Kristofer wrote:

Originally posted by Apu Apu wrote:

Sigh.. It's called representative democracy. Democracy = run by the will of the people. Representative democracy = A group of people to represent the will of the people.


No I'm pretty sure its considered a republic.
The US = Representative democracy.



*Sigh*, incorrect. Please study your own government.

The United States is a constitutional republic, with the representatives to the legislatures determined through a democratic process. Over the past several hundred years the United States has become an increasingly federalized power, but it is still a republic- the individual states are simply losing more and more of their power.
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

Yup, he actually said that.
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Apu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Apu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 4:19pm
Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

Originally posted by Apu Apu wrote:

Originally posted by Kristofer Kristofer wrote:

Originally posted by Apu Apu wrote:

Sigh.. It's called representative democracy. Democracy = run by the will of the people. Representative democracy = A group of people to represent the will of the people.


No I'm pretty sure its considered a republic.
The US = Representative democracy.



*Sigh*, incorrect. Please study your own government.

The United States is a constitutional republic, with the representatives to the legislatures determined through a democratic process. Over the past several hundred years the United States has become an increasingly federalized power, but it is still a republic- the individual states are simply losing more and more of their power.
I'm still going to go with what i've been learning in US Government for the past month.
I need a new Sig...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 4:22pm
Originally posted by Apu Apu wrote:

Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

Originally posted by Apu Apu wrote:

Originally posted by Kristofer Kristofer wrote:

Originally posted by Apu Apu wrote:

Sigh.. It's called representative democracy. Democracy = run by the will of the people. Representative democracy = A group of people to represent the will of the people.


No I'm pretty sure its considered a republic.
The US = Representative democracy.



*Sigh*, incorrect. Please study your own government.

The United States is a constitutional republic, with the representatives to the legislatures determined through a democratic process. Over the past several hundred years the United States has become an increasingly federalized power, but it is still a republic- the individual states are simply losing more and more of their power.
I'm still going to go with what i've been learning in US Government for the past month.


Then your teacher needs to be fired for incompetence. Democracy is the process by which representatives are elected. It is NOT the form of government.



CIA World Factbook:

Government type: 
Constitution-based federal republic; strong democratic tradition

Wikipedia:

The United States is the longest-surviving extant constitutional republic, with the oldest wholly written constitution in the world. Its government operates as a representative democracy through a congressional system under a set of powers specified by its Constitution.
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

Yup, he actually said that.
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