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Is Islam Evil?

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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2006 at 9:32am
I'll be the first to admit that the lack of careful quoting has left me completely disoriented as to which statements are rebutting which statements and by whom.
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Skillet42565 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skillet42565 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2006 at 11:41am
Of course Islam is evil.  No Jesus = evil.

/MT.Vigilante
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MT. Vigilante View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MT. Vigilante Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2006 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by MT. Vigilante MT. Vigilante wrote:


First of all I wish to apologize if it has seemed like I am trying to grandify myself, that could not be further from the truth. I wish all glory to go to God and none for myself.

Well said.

Quote As for what you said in the areas I highlighted, you are describing the condition of most Christians, yes even myself somtimes.

Of course - which leads me back to my actual point.  Your statement, a few posts back, was essentially that if you aren't a believer you couldn't understand.  I am saying that this makes no sense because, as we all agree, faith is not a constant thing, but a moving and changing thing.  Intellectual knowledge, on the other hand, doesn't come and go that easily.  Faith-gained intellectual knowledge will not simply evaporate when the faith is having an off day.



Well both yes and no, Yes faith gained knowledge through the Holy Spirit will not simply evaporate. But if somone falls away from God, the Holy Spirit is no longer with them, and so thier sinnfull nature (which we all have, including myself) will take hold, and this can lead to misenturpretations (sp.) of God's word.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2006 at 3:42pm
Sinning = fun, fun = happiness, happiness = right of all people, human rights = not evil. Therefore, sinning is not evil.

I don't care that we're all sinners. It doesn't seem like such a bad thing after all, eh?

I would type in something more meaningful but I'm in class right now. EGR 115 sucks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Da Hui Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2006 at 3:46pm
Oh Jesus here we go again...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2006 at 7:55pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

I'll be the first to admit that the lack of careful quoting has left me completely disoriented as to which statements are rebutting which statements and by whom.


Sorry Clark, I accidentally C&P'd the unqoute five times with part of the tag missing. It's fixed now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkSIDEofMOON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2006 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by Skillet42565 Skillet42565 wrote:

Of course Islam is evil.  No Jesus = evil.

/MT.Vigilante


actually they believe in Jesus, just not "believe" in Jesus.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkSIDEofMOON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2006 at 9:52pm
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No thats not what makes you a christian in my eyes, its what makes you a christian in God's eyes, for Jesus said in John 14:6


       " I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. "

    So your arguement is not with me, it is with God and his word.


again you can say you believe in Jesus, and then do other things.  again, at many "terrorist" type chrisitian groups believe in Jesus, and call themselves christian.  you can not say they are not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Cool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2006 at 8:05pm

    

      Well let's just summarize Brihard.

  The Tudor example was precisely what I wanted it to be, a government that was nearly toppled by establishing a state religion and persecuting other sects, or by grievous insult upon the church itself, yes the ends did justify the means, but in the time in between nearly lost the country.

   Your insistence on the secularism of America is nothing more then a constant stream of tautology. In a representative form of government where everyone has a vote, the government reflects the will of the people or at least the majority. If I decided to create my own political party and call it the Jesus Superstar Party, and my party won enough congressional seats, this party could in fact pass any legislation permittable within the bounds of the US Constitution. While I would be unable to establish a state religion, I could in effect turn the Bible into legislation.

    Whether you care to believe it or not, there is far too much influence from the religious community for all parties to be indifferent to their constituents. Your argument has basically broken down to its not true because you don't want it to be, and yet you still have the gumption to attack MT. Vigilante that he and his beliefs are "circular reasoning". As far as religious bias, haven't you shown exactly the same?

     You're upset by my attack of the public sector, I call them society's B team and honestly I doubt things are any different in Canada then from the US. But let us make this arguement very simple, just name one thing the public sector can do better then the private sector. Just one. Oh you blather on about having terrific teachers, but that is subjective. Though I generally respect policemen and firefighters, there seems to be no end to the whining about putting their lives on the line and they need more money, more benefits, and the fact that they have no idea what it means to have to make money in the private sector, where you have to be good.

     Next is your taking offense to my disparaging remarks about the Canadian military. One post you whine about your safety because of the Pope's WORDS, the Pope's WORDS had you very concerned about your safety. But now you'll lay down your life and gladly. This is empty rhetoric. Then you want to attack me, you think I should serve my country. Actually its already been done, OIF III. I closed up my little business, said goodbye to my wife and 2 week old son and went.

    The difference between you and I in this respect is several things. First I joined the National Guard because I wanted to help in time of crisis, while I have no patience for the active duty way of life. I don't tout my veteranship to impress people and further because I realize there is a distinct difference between myself and those who have dedicated years of their life to lousy pay, multiple deployments, etc.

  Personally I don't care what accolades the Canadians have recieved, when you guys actually win a war, on your own, then you will command some respect.

  Then you talk about someday it will be us vs them. A rather ambiguous statement at best. Tell me is this before or after terrorist organizations acquire some form of nuclear device?

Life is tough, its tougher if you're stupid. - John Wayne
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2006 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by Joe Cool Joe Cool wrote:

      Well let's just summarize Brihard.

  The Tudor example was precisely what I wanted it to be, a government that was nearly toppled by establishing a state religion and persecuting other sects, or by grievous insult upon the church itself, yes the ends did justify the means, but in the time in between nearly lost the country.


Then we don't disagree. The only reason I addressed this point at all was to demonstrate the danger of a state religion, and you illustrate my point quite nicely.

Originally posted by Joe Cool Joe Cool wrote:

Your insistence on the secularism of America is nothing more then a constant stream of tautology. In a representative form of government where everyone has a vote, the government reflects the will of the people or at least the majority. If I decided to create my own political party and call it the Jesus Superstar Party, and my party won enough congressional seats, this party could in fact pass any legislation permittable within the bounds of the US Constitution. While I would be unable to establish a state religion, I could in effect turn the Bible into legislation.


No you could not. That you would even say this shows how ignorant youa re of processes of law. But I'll defer to our resident lawyers Rambino and Clark if you insist on being stupid about this. As my legal education is to yours, so theirs is to mine.

Originally posted by Joe Cool Joe Cool wrote:

Whether you care to believe it or not, there is far too much influence from the religious community for all parties to be indifferent to their constituents. Your argument has basically broken down to its not true because you don't want it to be, and yet you still have the gumption to attack MT. Vigilante that he and his beliefs are "circular reasoning". As far as religious bias, haven't you shown exactly the same?

Negative. I have shown bias based on strictly logic-based moralities. Unless I can be shown the demonstrable harm to the individual of any action, I regard that action as a right. Nobody can tell me what to do with any binbding legal authority unless I stand to hurt another- and yet religion seeks to impose those exact unjustified restrictions. That is my sole complaint with organized religion. You, however, can bea s religious as you like- because it doesn't harm me any. I will always, however, raise debate when someone simply claims their particular faith to be true. I'm not attacking their faith- I'm attacking their reasoning.

Originally posted by Joe Cool Joe Cool wrote:

You're upset by my attack of the public sector, I call them society's B team and honestly I doubt things are any different in Canada then from the US. But let us make this arguement very simple, just name one thing the public sector can do better then the private sector. Just one. Oh you blather on about having terrific teachers, but that is subjective. Though I generally respect policemen and firefighters, there seems to be no end to the whining about putting their lives on the line and they need more money, more benefits, and the fact that they have no idea what it means to have to make money in the private sector, where you have to be good.

No, I'm not upset- I merely considered it to be incorrect and sought to demonstrate why. The public sector and the private sector have different goals- the're not meant to be an overlap. However law enforcement, public safety, national security, criminal corrections, etc are all run publically and with success. In ANY field where profit motive would be of a negative influence on performance as perceived by the taxpayer the public sector is superior. There are parts of society where private business is simply not suitable.

It's also notable that a great many members of the public service who reach high managerial or executive rank get out and become highly successful in the private sector. Witness the number of current (reserve) or former military officers in business, for instance- my commanding officer and regimental sargeant major are good examples.

Originally posted by Joe Cool Joe Cool wrote:

Next is your taking offense to my disparaging remarks about the Canadian military. One post you whine about your safety because of the Pope's WORDS, the Pope's WORDS had you very concerned about your safety. But now you'll lay down your life and gladly. This is empty rhetoric. Then you want to attack me, you think I should serve my country. Actually its already been done, OIF III. I closed up my little business, said goodbye to my wife and 2 week old son and went.

Good to know you admit your remarks about the Canadian military are 'disparaging'. Since you admit it yourself there's litle I need to say. I will mention, however that once again you expose your own ignorance. I refer you again to the recent highly successfull offensive in Afghanistan, as well as previous offensives there in past years. Canadians just led American, British and Dutch troops to victory and killed up to 1500 militants across the coalition force, with VERY few coalition casualties. Easily as successful as any operation you can demonstrate in any recent military conflict.

Please quote where I 'whine' (to use your own word) about what the pope said. I do not, nor am I at all concerned for my own eprsonal safety because of his words. I am concerned about ym won safety because radical Islam want to convert or kill you, me, and everyone on this forum and in our respective countries. My 'concern' is extremely limited though, because the exact nature of the contemporary threat precludes them form mounting any major attack. I will be more concerned as radicals gain great political leverage in Europe, in line with the great social shift towards radical Islam that is being seen there now. It is not 'empty rhetoric' that I am willing to risk my life. I'm not 'willing' to lay it down, but that choice will never be mine. I'm willing, however, to subject my life to great risk so long as I'm in a position to cause equal or greater risk to whomever would take it from me or those I care about. I have friends and family in Afghanistan right now and I fully intend to follow in their footsteps. I'll do whatever I can to preserve my own life and safety, just like any soldier does in the performance of his duty.

Regarding your service and deployment- Thank you. That's all I have to say on that, though I'll mention that I'm curious about your military occupation.

Originally posted by Joe Cool Joe Cool wrote:

The difference between you and I in this respect is several things. First I joined the National Guard because I wanted to help in time of crisis, while I have no patience for the active duty way of life. I don't tout my veteranship to impress people and further because I realize there is a distinct difference between myself and those who have dedicated years of their life to lousy pay, multiple deployments, etc.

I too am a reservist, however reservist deployments in Canada are entirely voluntary. Aside form that we are not at all unlike each other in this regard. I have an education to pursue and I intend a full time career afterwards- I'll simply be there if needed after I've got that first tour done.

Originally posted by Joe Cool Joe Cool wrote:

Personally I don't care what accolades the Canadians have recieved, when you guys actually win a war, on your own, then you will command some respect.

We don't command respect- we earn it almost universally from those who care to inform themselves about what we do. If you don't, it's no skin off my back. I give the upper echelons of your military and NATO far more credence than I give you. And besides, our success speaks for itself.

Originally posted by Joe Cool Joe Cool wrote:

Then you talk about someday it will be us vs them. A rather ambiguous statement at best. Tell me is this before or after terrorist organizations acquire some form of nuclear device?

It already is us vs them, 'us' being western society, 'them' being religious radicals who want to kill us- fortunately the combatants on both sides are greatly in the minority amongst the general population. Hopefully Islam gets a grip on those that would corrupt its good name and honourable faith, and then we won't have so many of them to fight.



So out of curiosity, do you intend to apologize for calling my mother a drug user?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote STOcocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2006 at 8:41pm
I would like to direct you to the words of Jonathan Edwards.
We are all evil and are going to hell. So does it really matter what religion we are?
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