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Predatorr View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 August 2006 at 1:50pm
So disclaimer, i dont hate homosexuals, but i was talking with a friend of mine's brother who claims he was born homosexual.  So im wondering if anybody has enough experience with biology to prove this either right or wrong.  Again, i dont hate homos, anything like that, im just trying to prove that it was his choice rather than he was born that way.

So im talking with my friend's brother and he claims that he was born homosexual.  I think that he's using that as an excuse.  So i shoot back at him with this.  Being born homosexual would mean that there has to be a "ghey" gene.  Now if this is true, it would have to be a recessive trait, if you were using something like a punnent square.  And if a homosexual man/woman had sex with a member of the opposite sex, then child would be heterozygous for the ghey gene (one dominant and one recessive allele).  But that would be impossible as said parent wouldn't be homosexual if he or she was having a child with a member of the opposite sex. 

Possible? Discuss.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White o Light Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 1:55pm
you hate "gheys"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 1:58pm
I've seen some pretty strong evidence that it's genetic....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 1:59pm

Born homosexual? Hmm...

I don't see how homosexuality could be a natural trait. I think it has to be chosen.

Of course, there is the possibility of pheromones. The initial thing that draws a man to a woman is a hormonal attraction, regardless of what you feel about true love...

Maybe there is a hormone imbalance as to where a male picks up on another male's pheromones...



Edited by DeTrevni - 20 August 2006 at 2:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paintballinbill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 2:02pm

Originally posted by Predatorr Predatorr wrote:

So disclaimer, i dont hate homosexuals, but i was talking with a friend of mine's brother who claims he was born homosexual.  So im wondering if anybody has enough experience with biology to prove this either right or wrong.  Again, i dont hate homos, anything like that, im just trying to prove that it was his choice rather than he was born that way.

So im talking with my friend's brother and he claims that he was born homosexual.  I think that he's using that as an excuse.  So i shoot back at him with this.  Being born homosexual would mean that there has to be a "ghey" gene.  Now if this is true, it would have to be a recessive trait, if you were using something like a punnent square.  And if a homosexual man/woman had sex with a member of the opposite sex, then child would be heterozygous for the ghey gene (one dominant and one recessive allele).  But that would be impossible as said parent wouldn't be homosexual if he or she was having a child with a member of the opposite sex. 

Possible? Discuss.

well, by your logic, then your friend and his brother both carry the "ghey" gene, but your friend's "str8" gene is dominant over the recessive "ghey" gene, while your friend's brother has two recessive "ghey" genes, which is why he is homosexual(remember, when you have a dominant gene and recessive gene, the dominant gene always shows). now, perhaps your friend marries a woman who also has a dominant "str8" gene and a recessive "ghey" gene. then, if they have 4 children, one will be homosexual. see how it can be passed down?

it's similar to this scenerio:
i work at a pet store where we have two burmese pythons. one is normal, and the other is albino. when we breed them, ALL the offspring come out looking normal, because the normal gene is dominant over the albino gene, but yet, all of the offspring carry the albino gene. so if any of the offspring breed with an albino, or breed with another burmese python that carries the albino gene, a portion of those offspring will display the albino gene.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Predatorr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by White o Light White o Light wrote:

you hate "gheys"


nuh ah.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 2:03pm
You are all idiots.

I still remember when I was five when I chose to be a straight male.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Predatorr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by paintballinbill paintballinbill wrote:

Originally posted by Predatorr Predatorr wrote:

So disclaimer, i dont hate homosexuals, but i was talking with a friend of mine's brother who claims he was born homosexual.  So im wondering if anybody has enough experience with biology to prove this either right or wrong.  Again, i dont hate homos, anything like that, im just trying to prove that it was his choice rather than he was born that way.

So im talking with my friend's brother and he claims that he was born homosexual.  I think that he's using that as an excuse.  So i shoot back at him with this.  Being born homosexual would mean that there has to be a "ghey" gene.  Now if this is true, it would have to be a recessive trait, if you were using something like a punnent square.  And if a homosexual man/woman had sex with a member of the opposite sex, then child would be heterozygous for the ghey gene (one dominant and one recessive allele).  But that would be impossible as said parent wouldn't be homosexual if he or she was having a child with a member of the opposite sex. 

Possible? Discuss.

well, by your logic, then your friend and his brother both carry the "ghey" gene, but your friend's "str8" gene is dominant over the recessive "ghey" gene, while your friend's brother has two recessive "ghey" genes, which is why he is homosexual(remember, when you have a dominant gene and recessive gene, the dominant gene always shows). now, perhaps your friend marries a woman who also has a dominant "str8" gene and a recessive "ghey" gene. then, if they have 4 children, one will be homosexual. see how it can be passed down?

it's similar to this scenerio:
i work at a pet store where we have two burmese pythons. one is normal, and the other is albino. when we breed them, ALL the offspring come out looking normal, because the normal gene is dominant over the albino gene, but yet, all of the offspring carry the albino gene. so if any of the offspring breed with an albino, or breed with another burmese python that carries the albino gene, a portion of those offspring will display the albino gene.



yeah, so if there was a gene that made someone homosexual, then everyone would have it, but it wouldnt show unless there were either all four children, or two homosexuals had a child, for whatever reason.  Correct?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 2:07pm

Wouldn't that be, I dunno, contradictive?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Predatorr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 2:09pm
thats what im saying, so there could only be the homozygous dominant if two homosexuals of the opposite sex were to have a child (contradiction), or if someone were to have four children.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 2:13pm

I don't think it's the actual "OMG GHEY!!1!" gene, but maybe a gene that causes a hormone imbalance, making members of one sex pick up on the pheromones of the same sex. As I said earlier.

Of course, there is the chance that it is a choice and they are looking for an excuse...



Edited by DeTrevni - 20 August 2006 at 2:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSOK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 2:18pm
Ive herd alot of stuff on the homosexual gene. But if that is true, explain bisexuality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 2:21pm

Hmm. You speak a good point sir. What if homosexuality is different than bisexuality. Perhaps homosexuality is genetic, but bisexuality is emotional. Maybe said bi is okay with the opposite sex, but found something appealing in the same sex.

I'm straight, so I can't venture into the mind of a homosexual or a bisexual, so I'm running on only possibilities.

Edit: Where's Clark?



Edited by DeTrevni - 20 August 2006 at 2:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 2:27pm
Brihard is who you need, rather. I'll look up his post on the subject.

Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

I'll take your last point first- the instance of women being raped and turning homosexual is grossly anomalous, and is a neurotic or psychotic condition. We're talking strict biology here.

You quote "conclusion" as if the scientific method is not worth considering. The biochemical effects of sex hormones on foetuses is hard science, clinically proven. Too much exposure to a sex hormone will skew the careful baalcne that regulates neural and physical development. An XY chromosome male genotype may develop a female phenotype as a result of excessive exposre to estrogen in the womb. The converse is true. There is an entire tribe of people in which a certian hormone balance runs genetically througha  portion of the population- many children are born as girls, then around age 11 suddenly develop over the course of mere montsh complete male reproductive organs, and assume all male physical traits. Transvestitism has been heavily researched and linked to hormone imbalances as well.

Homosexuality is due to a conflict between hormones present in prenatal development, and the hormones that one's own body later produces. Genetic males may be completely female physically, despite having an XY chromosome.

Homosexuality generally occurs when a person grows up in a body that is one genotype when they brain is producing hormones at levels appropriate for the opposite sex, or the brain itself may be developed as the opposite sex.

You claim that there is 'proof' that it is a choice, when in the vast majority of situations, it is not. Certainly some women choose to be lesbians, but that is free will as opposed to biological determinism.

You can try to spready ambiguity or anomalous scenarios, however that changes nothing- yalling WRONG repeatedly does not make it so. You are merely trying (and failing) to rationalize an unreasonable prejudice you are not willing to admit you hold. I don't even see the point of that idiotic comment about seeing a picture on a computer- visual stimuli has long been proven to have sexual arousal effects.

You cannot use indecisions or failings of science on one point to condemn another. That's fallacious, and frankly I'm surprised you think me dumb enough to buy that kind of tactic.

Fundanmentally, homosexuals are humans, and thus are entitled to human rights, which include freedom of self determination, and freedom to enter contract if adult and metnally sound. To argue that because of a hormone or chemical imbalance that they should be held as second class citizens is thoroughly disgusting. It is EXACTLY the same as arguing the same discrimination for blacks, or aryans, or people suffering from dwarfism, or people whoa re unusually good runners. Different genetic or hormonal expressions that have no bearing whatsoever on the fact that they are nonetheless a person equal in all ways to you or I, and ENTITLED to the same right- for rights are not a privilege, they are an entitlement. The state that begins to view rights as a privilege is called a tyrrany.

You can be against homosexual marraige becuase you choose to be, but you cannot claim that you can justify it or ratioanlize it by any moral standards notdependent on a religious blind faith. Morality must have some tangible foundation in the good and harm that it does people, and your views cannot in any way be justified. You simply hold them for whatever ignorant reason you do.


Thar you go.


Edited by Gatyr - 20 August 2006 at 2:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TEHGANGSTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 2:53pm
i chose to be straight, but i was considering it for a while

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 2:57pm

Then, according to Brihard, I was right. It is a hormonal imbalance.

Cool. I feel smart.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote battlefreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 2:58pm
anyone who says they were born homosexual and cant help it are complete and total idiots
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 2:59pm

And your argument is...?

How did you formulate that opinion?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 2:59pm
Brihard.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blackdog144 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 3:05pm
i believe that its a choice. Im against homosexuals, well not against the person but im against his or hers sexual orientation...that is all...



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