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born ghey?

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josem268 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote josem268 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 8:57pm
ive heard that it has 2 do with the way the kid grew up. like if a guy didnt have a father growing up, like no1 2 play sports with and all that guy stuff, then he would most likely be **edited**.  but i also heard the utha day while watchin discovery channel with my girlfriend that if a family has 3 boy children, the youngest 1 has an 85% chance of being homosexual...duno how they came up with that, but i no discovery channel must be sumwut accurate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 8:57pm
Somehow, with the no male influence statement, you are mixing up Serial Killers/criminals with homosexuals. As far as the 85% thing, I dont know the validity of that, but I do know that it has been said that the more older brothers a male has, the more likely he is to be homosexual.

Originally posted by battlefreak battlefreak wrote:

any one who doesent agree with u is moronic....


You're the one who said it, not me.


Edited by Gatyr - 20 August 2006 at 8:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote battlefreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 9:02pm
your an idiot im done with post its taken up my time
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 9:04pm
Originally posted by battlefreak battlefreak wrote:

your an idiot im done with post its taken up my time




I would say the irony is extreme.
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by battlefreak battlefreak wrote:

your an idiot im done with post its taken up my time


I promise this one is not me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bango Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2006 at 1:08am
Originally posted by blackdog144 blackdog144 wrote:

i believe that its a choice. Im against homosexuals, well not against the person but im against his or hers sexual orientation...that is all...


Are you also against gravity?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hitman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2006 at 1:13am
I'm bisexual until I loose my virginity. I need to keep my options open.
[IMG]http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/4874/stellatn8.jpg">

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2006 at 1:40am

Hmm...   Lots of fodder in this thread, but I am going to bed.

But I will summarize my understanding of the current science, for now.  Much of this has been said already, but perhaps a summation is useful.

1.  "Born ghey" =/= "ghey gene".  There are plenty of non-genetic influences in utero that impact various physiological and psychological features of the baby.  Particularly interesting here, perhaps, is the recent study that indicated that having older brothers changed the utero environment such that homosexuality became more likely, at least in males.

2.  If there is a "ghey gene", there is no particular reason to believe that it would/should have been evolved away.  Plenty of apparently disadvantagrous genes/traits (bleeder genes, altruisitic traits) survive, for good reason.  Evolution is not that simple.

3.  There is some evidence to support a biological foundation of homosexuality.  Twin studies and the brother study mentioned have definitely laid the foundation for a biological claim.  But I am not aware of a scientific consensus that there is a biological foundation.

4.  There is clear evidence that various environmental influences can affect sexuality.  I believe the consensus is pretty clear on this.  The power of various influences, and the interaction with any underlying biological foundations, is less clear.

5.  Environmental influences =/= "choice".  I don't like celery.  Most likely that has some foundation in my early interactions with celery, but I certainly never "chose" to not like celery.  If I can't even choose to like a particular vegetable, how on Earth can I choose not to like girls?

6.  Biological influences don't end at birth.  If you get lung cancer at 60, you probably didn't "choose" to get cancer, even though you don't have a "cancer gene".  Those 50,000 cigarettes you smoked might have something to do with it, though.  We interact with our world biologically and psychologically throughout our entire lives.  To create an artificial distinction between "born with it" or "chose it" as the only two options is goofy.

More later.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2006 at 6:46am
LOL, Clark- there's a new anti smoking campaign.

"Surgeon General's Warning- Smoking makes you ghey."

Think that might work?
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

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Yup, he actually said that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TEHGANGSTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2006 at 7:37am
Originally posted by Hitman Hitman wrote:

I'm bisexual until I loose my virginity. I need to keep my options open.

lol

I am a leaf on the wind, watch how i soar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2006 at 8:55am
I dont believe its something they are born with because there are too many instances of men / women choosing to go homosexual after bad experiences with the oppisite sex, like a woman getting raped.


Again, to me, its chosen. It isnt supposed to be natural for one reaon: The (main) purpose of sex is reproduction, thats how a species lives on. But if you have sex with the same sex, its impossible to reproduce.

There will always be scientist saying they are born with it, pulling out the "but animals do it" card, and there will always be scientist saying its chosen / learned because of what ever enviromental influence happens (rape, dependency on the mother, etc)


Edited by Linus - 21 August 2006 at 9:00am

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2006 at 9:07am
I chose to be left handed

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2006 at 9:10am
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:




Again, to me, its chosen.


I personally choose not to believe in gravity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2006 at 9:42am

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

I dont believe its something they are born with because there are too many instances of men / women choosing to go homosexual after bad experiences with the oppisite sex, like a woman getting raped.

A.  Please provide some data on this prodigious number of people "going ghey" after "a bad experience".  This is a massive urban legend.

B.  You are confusing homosexual behavior with homosexual feelings.  There is a disproportionate amount of homosexual activities in prison, on ships, Alaska, and other places where there are not enough women.  This does not make these men truly homosexual.  Many folks experiment in college, perhaps after a bad breakup, but this also does not make them ghey.


Quote Again, to me, its chosen.

Based on... what?  Are you just going to ignore the science out there?

Quote It isnt supposed to be natural for one reaon: The (main) purpose of sex is reproduction, thats how a species lives on. But if you have sex with the same sex, its impossible to reproduce.

And that has what to do with choice?

Very random post, Linus.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Predatorr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2006 at 10:53am
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

I dont believe its something they are born with because there are too many instances of men / women choosing to go homosexual after bad experiences with the oppisite sex, like a woman getting raped.

A.  Please provide some data on this prodigious number of people "going ghey" after "a bad experience".  This is a massive urban legend.

B.  You are confusing homosexual behavior with homosexual feelings.  There is a disproportionate amount of homosexual activities in prison, on ships, Alaska, and other places where there are not enough women.  This does not make these men truly homosexual.  Many folks experiment in college, perhaps after a bad breakup, but this also does not make them ghey.


Quote Again, to me, its chosen.

Based on... what?  Are you just going to ignore the science out there?

Quote It isnt supposed to be natural for one reaon: The (main) purpose of sex is reproduction, thats how a species lives on. But if you have sex with the same sex, its impossible to reproduce.

And that has what to do with choice?

Very random post, Linus.



on the reproduction note, it is in instinct to reproduce, but that doesnt mean that somebody can't ignore that instinct.  We have mindless sex, but we wear a condom, trying not to reproduce. But there are certain things essential to our survival that we dont ignore, breathing, eating, drinking. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2006 at 11:27am
If it is a choice, when did all u straight people choose to like teh womanz?

And what difference does it even make? If that is what they choose, that is what they should do and enjoy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2006 at 11:46am
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

If it is a choice, when did all u straight people choose to like teh womanz?

And what difference does it even make? If that is what they choose, that is what they should do and enjoy.


Speaking for myself, I got suckered into the choice by pictures of Jessica Alba and Keira Knightley.
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2006 at 11:52am

Following along that line -

If we accept for the moment that being ghey is a conscious choice - where is the evidence that we are born straight?  Isn't it just as likely that we are born homosexual, but most people just choose to be straight at some point?

Just because most people go that way doesn't mean it's hardwired.  Most people in the world like soccer, for instance, but there isn't (TMK) a soccer gene, so they must have chosen to like it.  For all we know we are all born not liking soccer, but people in most of the world are pressured into liking soccer by society.  Here in the US, of course, we are immune to that.

Thus my question - if being ghey/straight is a choice, who's to say which is the default state? 

Maybe we shouldn't be looking for a "ghey gene" but a "straight gene"?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2006 at 11:55am
But god wouldn't give us a homersexual gene because gheys are the devil.

Duh.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2006 at 11:58am
It is God's fault there are homos, cause He gave us choices. Satan wanted everyone not to have choices, then there wouldnt be any gheys.

Edited by Hades - 21 August 2006 at 11:58am
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