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Flatline.. inaccurate as heck?

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    Posted: 18 August 2006 at 6:12pm
I finally tested out my Flatline's "TRUE" shot groupings.. to my suprise, it is horrific, shots are NEVER together and they are always about a foot to 8 inch's apart... is this the sacrifice of accuracy for range?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoboCop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2006 at 6:53pm
Maybe because you didn't have good paint, a regulator or HPA, your grouping was that bad. Ya, the flatline is not going to be great accuracy, the barrel never actually tightens onto the ball like straight barrels. But, in reality, you can hit targets that can't hit you from a distance as long as they don't have flatlines.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tippmannfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2006 at 7:44pm
depends what you play. i play mainly speedball so i have absolutely no use for it. even when i play woods i can't see too many opportunites for one. the thought of being able to shoot farther than anybody is the biggest part of the flatline, once you do rock somebody from the far end of the field, they'll wake up and realize they're not safe and you won't have anymore sucker shots to capitalize on. just my opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2006 at 11:00pm

Originally posted by RevoXT RevoXT wrote:

I finally tested out my Flatline's "TRUE" shot groupings.. to my suprise, it is horrific, shots are NEVER together and they are always about a foot to 8 inch's apart... is this the sacrifice of accuracy for range?

Tight groups are accomplished with consistent shot to shot velocity which is accomplished by consistente shot to shot pressure. You are using CO2 which, at best, is prone to pressure spikes and shoot down from chilling.

At the minimum you have to run a good CO2 regulator. Best is to switch to HPA and a secondary regulator.

You didn't give the distance at which you got your poor results. With my Flatline, (shooting inside, so no wind drift) cleaned and using HPA with a Palmer LP reg and and a LPK I get 9 shots out of 10 all on an 8 inch paper plate at 60 measured yards. (Nelson Hemorrhage paint) I have seen nothing that shoots better...the Flatline just requires a bit more care.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2006 at 11:06pm

Originally posted by tippmannfreak tippmannfreak wrote:

depends what you play. i play mainly speedball so i have absolutely no use for it. even when i play woods i can't see too many opportunites for one. the thought of being able to shoot farther than anybody is the biggest part of the flatline, once you do rock somebody from the far end of the field, they'll wake up and realize they're not safe and you won't have anymore sucker shots to capitalize on. just my opinion.

Long distance is not the primary reason for the Flatline. The flat trajectory, the ability to shoot under a low hanging limb or between limbs, is the real advantage. Not having to compensate for the arcing trajectory of  a standard barrel offers more advantage than distance. The ability to actually hit the point of aim, the ability to actually use sights rather than watch the arching trajectory for a couple of shots to compensate and get on target.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RevoXT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2006 at 12:19am
I am useing anti-siphoned C02 and I am going to be adding a X-Chamber soon but I don't think it's needed since my tank is anti-siphoned w\ smart parts valve. I guess I'll buy a palmer stabalizer soon enough.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSOK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2006 at 12:26pm
If you were to get HPA, a Palmers reg, a LPK and marbalizzers you would have decent accuracy with the flatline
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RevoXT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2006 at 1:41pm
With Tippmann's I shouldn't require HPA to get remotely good accuracy. Anti-Siphon c02 is GAS just like HPA, I'm going to add a Palmer Stabalizer in two weeks, Why would I ever get a LPK? That's just bad for the A-5 the friggin' Cyclone Feeder NEEDS PRESSURE to operate
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DsXz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2006 at 8:35am
lol...u cant argue with idiots cuz they dont know theyre wrong

Edited by DsXz - 20 August 2006 at 8:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tippmannfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2006 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by RevoXT RevoXT wrote:

With Tippmann's I shouldn't require HPA to get remotely good accuracy. Anti-Siphon c02 is GAS just like HPA, I'm going to add a Palmer Stabalizer in two weeks, Why would I ever get a LPK? That's just bad for the A-5 the friggin' Cyclone Feeder NEEDS PRESSURE to operate


i'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're twelve...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RevoXT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2006 at 8:05pm
lol Tippmann Freak, Does that no make sense to you? The cyclone needs a good amount of air to function correctly.. low pressure air is less air used and lower pressure.... I have heard MANY problems with LPK's when used with the Cyclone. Pneumatic Hoppers and LPK's just sound like a very bad idea, I actually questioned the guy at PB Atlanta today who was working on some guns about installing a LPK on my gun and he said it's a BAD idea for A-5's since Tippmann's internal are BUILT for High-Pressure and the Cyclone can easily have problems of being starved with an LPK, most people who I talk to on the field agree that Tippmann's run best on HPA or C02, not LPA

Edited by RevoXT - 21 August 2006 at 9:14pm
Tippmann A-5
-Shocktech Drop
-Super R\T
-QEV
-JCS Powertube
-BT Sight
-Flatline + Metadyne Shroud
-R.I.S. Foregrip
-Stock
-C02 20OZ Anti-Siphon
-X-Core EXP Chamber
-Macro-Line
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bandit5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2006 at 11:31pm
Ok, I don't care about all this crap in the past few posts...

I never saw any mention of what fps your shots were.  The flatline is very unique in it's extreme sensitivity in flight characteristics when changing the velocity.  Whereas most barrels will notice more irratic ball movement through a slightly less accurate shot grouping while increasing the velocity well above 300fps, the Flatline will begin tossing balls in completely different directions shot to shot.

For it to operate at its best, it should be set somewhere in the vicinity of 280fps.  Assuming you know you have the flatline correctly installed, you can actually adjust (if you are a combination of good at it and lucky) the velocity by watching the acuracy of the flatline.

In your case, I would go to a chrono, set it to 280fps and try again.  My paint of choice is Marballizer, and secondary is Midnight.  But almost any high quality small bore paint will work fine, those are just a few I tried and have had nothing but success with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 August 2006 at 12:34am

Problems with a Cyclone when running LP is a problem with the lack of knowledge of the user (or the technician installing it), not the fact that it is LP.

Why ask questions here if you are going to disqualify the answers. There are many people on this forum with experience on the A-5 LP conversion...many with much more than many repairmen...certified or not.

You act like Tippmann is just pulling a scam by offering the LP kit. When a LP Kit is install in an A-5 by someone who is actually qualified or who has taken the time to read the available literature the function is as smooth as silk with LONGER intervals between adjustments.



Edited by Bruce A. Frank - 22 August 2006 at 2:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RevoXT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 August 2006 at 10:20am
From what I've been reading Bruce, you have to modify the gun quite a bit more after installing the LPK to get it to run smoothly.... it's not just buy the kit, install, and play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 August 2006 at 10:55am

Originally posted by RevoXT RevoXT wrote:

From what I've been reading Bruce, you have to modify the gun quite a bit more after installing the LPK to get it to run smoothly.... it's not just buy the kit, install, and play.

Usually, people who are not having a problem don't post.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 August 2006 at 11:22am

I installed the A-5 LPK myself, and I am no technical genius.  Took about an hour altogether.

Took the gun to the range and started blasting away.  I had to re-tweak my RT to reset the sweetspot, but that was it.

Others may have had problems, but I don't see what the big deal is.  Whether the LPK is worth it is another question entirely, but it certainly isn't rocket science to install.

As to Flatline accuracy - I certainly agree with Bruce that the main benefit is the flat trajectory, which makes it so much easier to aim.  But in terms of ball-hitting-target accuracy, I must say that my quality straight barrels are much more accurate than the Flatline, at least with my PMI Premium paint.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RevoXT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 August 2006 at 6:26pm
Alright, I'll take it to the chrono and adjust the velocity then post again in this topic if anything is wrong, I do know I am sacrificeing accuracy for range, but personally the extra range does wonders and the flat-trajectory is just amazing. (Still thinkin'bout gettin the Apex though)
Tippmann A-5
-Shocktech Drop
-Super R\T
-QEV
-JCS Powertube
-BT Sight
-Flatline + Metadyne Shroud
-R.I.S. Foregrip
-Stock
-C02 20OZ Anti-Siphon
-X-Core EXP Chamber
-Macro-Line
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2006 at 1:46am

Originally posted by RevoXT RevoXT wrote:

Alright, I'll take it to the chrono and adjust the velocity then post again in this topic if anything is wrong, I do know I am sacrificeing accuracy for range, but personally the extra range does wonders and the flat-trajectory is just amazing. (Still thinkin'bout gettin the Apex though)

Strictly speaking you are not sacraficing accuracy for range. At normal ranges your Flatline should be as accurate as any barrel. Mine is.

When you take those long shots the ball is slowing and more susceptible to even the slightest wind current. You are taking a shot with the Flatline that you would likely not attempt with any other barrel.  I can attest to the barrels accuracy from some extensive long range testing inside a large warehouse. The marker was sand bagged in place to assure shot to shot repeatability.

At over 200 feet I could put a majority of my shots on a paper plate (7 out of 10). I cannot do that outside. The barrel is very accurate even at that extended  range, but there is just too much happening to the ball after such a long flight.



Edited by Bruce A. Frank - 24 August 2006 at 4:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cypher5601 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2006 at 2:52am
i had a flatline but scraped it for a lapco 14 inch bigshot due to its horrible accuracy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RevoXT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2006 at 10:33am
I can easily say that my Dye Ultralite on my Spyder was alot more "Accurate" but I just LOVE the flat trajectory and range of the Flatline.. which is why I'm keeping it, at close range the Flatline works pretty good
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-BT Sight
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-Stock
-C02 20OZ Anti-Siphon
-X-Core EXP Chamber
-Macro-Line
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