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What is the point of religion?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2006 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by .Ryan .Ryan wrote:

I will say though, the good done most probably doesn't begin to stack
up to the damage that has been done in it's name, but still.
Most assuredly, I mean, can you say Crusades?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkSIDEofMOON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2006 at 9:23pm
Originally posted by Rambino Rambino wrote:

My point was simply that before mocking people on the internet, you should at least take the time to Google/Yahoo whatever you are mocking them about, to avoid looking like a fool yourself.

Your followup post tells me that even after my gentle reminder you still have not Googled Zeitun.

You really ought to read before posting.



even still if i go on google and look it up on the internet it isn't going to prove a point on anything.  why?  because (a) i was not there (b) it still comes from the internet which as a whole i do not trust. 

there are only a few very places that i look for information about stuff and learning about a religion or evolution is not on it.  so unless it happens in my back yard or on the tv in the next few weeks proves to me that it could still be photoshopped.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Fellows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2006 at 9:55pm
I just have a strong dislike for buttmunch scam artists like Benny Hinn.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rambino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2006 at 10:03pm

Originally posted by darkSIDEofMOON darkSIDEofMOON wrote:

even still if i go on google and look it up on the internet it isn't going to prove a point on anything.  why?  because (a) i was not there (b) it still comes from the internet which as a whole i do not trust. 

there are only a few very places that i look for information about stuff and learning about a religion or evolution is not on it.  so unless it happens in my back yard or on the tv in the next few weeks proves to me that it could still be photoshopped.

You are making yourself look bad here, by continuing to refuse to do rudimentary investigation.

Yes, that particular picture may have been photoshopped.  But if you had taken a few seconds of your time, you would have learned that the the Zeitun apparitions happened primarily between 1968 and 1973 (mainly 68-69).  You would have learned that the Zeitun apparitions received major international attention, and is still considered one of the main Mary apparitions of all time.

Perhaps you see how goofy you look complaining about the picture?  That picture precedes the photoshopping and the internet - even if that particular jpg has been photoshopped, there are thousands others like it.

So yes - you should have googled.

And to say that you don't want to learn about religion on the internet is downright foolish.  The internet is the greatest resource ever specifically for religious information of all sorts.  As with all things, you have to read carefully, but the internet (unlike every other source) provides enough data from different sources to allow you to make up your own mind.

/shakes head

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2006 at 10:13pm
To give people hope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2006 at 10:19pm
What I said.
Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2006 at 1:51am
Originally posted by Enos Shenk Enos Shenk wrote:

You dont need religion to do good. I can go out and volunteer my time with no ulterior motive (i.e. getting more sheep to join my church).

Why dont these damned churches put their money where their mouths are and stop building so many big frigging churches and use the money for something useful? Like charity?

We dont need a church on every street corner. They dont all need a new building every 2 years.

That alone proves that the church leaders are just out for personal gain, whether thats money or an inflated ego by being the biggest church in town.

Dont get me wrong, Im a spiritual person. I just absolutely despise organized religion.


Oh, I absolutely agree man. The snap decision that you are immoral and you can't do good things, just because you don't go to church or don't believe in God or whatever is one of my biggest pet peeves.

On the big churches and stuff, I actually went on a rant on that same thing a couple days ago at a Special Olympics softball game that was held at this giant church that was much much nice than any school within 50 miles. Indoor basketball court, two baseball fields, big play groud, a parking lot as big as Walmart's, a giant plasma screen inside that focuses on the preacher....yeah...I hate that too...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sammy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2006 at 2:19am
Originally posted by mbro mbro wrote:

Originally posted by battlefreak battlefreak wrote:

Originally posted by Boss_DJ Boss_DJ wrote:

Originally posted by travis75 travis75 wrote:


Originally posted by Enos Shenk Enos Shenk wrote:

You dont need religion to do good. I can go out and
volunteer my time with no ulterior motive (i.e. getting more sheep to
join my church).Why
dont these damned churches put their money where their mouths are and
stop building so many big frigging churches and use the money for
something useful? Like charity?We dont need a church on every street corner. They dont all need a new building every 2 years.That
alone proves that the church leaders are just out for personal gain,
whether thats money or an inflated ego by being the biggest church in
town.Dont get me wrong, Im a spiritual person. I just absolutely despise organized religion.
I
could not agree with you more, Master Enos. I too have a strong
dislike for the massive churches to whom people flock like sheep.
It reminds me of the popularity contests back in middle school


<span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">
yea cause EVERY church does that...</span>
lmfao enos so ure saying churches dont give to chairity?
1. Filter dodge

2. He didn't say they didn't give to charity, just that they waste money on useless things that do nothing other than inflate their ego which could be better spent on charity.
 
What's your point? I'm sure there are things where money wasn't spent usefully but to say it is to only inflate their ego is preposterous. Might
as well say, Enos has a ds, but it doesn't have a purpose,
it is just to inflate his ego.
 
And Enos, you say that churches only expand for personal gain.  
Ever thought of a church running out of room? *Gasp* A church
can't have a new building, some kid in Africa is starving! Ever heard of
Saddleback Church? It probably is one of the biggest
churches in the US with one of the most humble pastors
*Rick Warren*. So this "Churches get new buildings every two years when they should be giving it all to charity" is a rather dumb reason for hating organized religion. .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkSIDEofMOON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2006 at 4:16am
Originally posted by Rambino Rambino wrote:

Originally posted by darkSIDEofMOON darkSIDEofMOON wrote:

even still if i go on google and look it up on the internet it isn't going to prove a point on anything.  why?  because (a) i was not there (b) it still comes from the internet which as a whole i do not trust. 

there are only a few very places that i look for information about stuff and learning about a religion or evolution is not on it.  so unless it happens in my back yard or on the tv in the next few weeks proves to me that it could still be photoshopped.

You are making yourself look bad here, by continuing to refuse to do rudimentary investigation.

Yes, that particular picture may have been photoshopped.  But if you had taken a few seconds of your time, you would have learned that the the Zeitun apparitions happened primarily between 1968 and 1973 (mainly 68-69).  You would have learned that the Zeitun apparitions received major international attention, and is still considered one of the main Mary apparitions of all time.

Perhaps you see how goofy you look complaining about the picture?  That picture precedes the photoshopping and the internet - even if that particular jpg has been photoshopped, there are thousands others like it.

So yes - you should have googled.

And to say that you don't want to learn about religion on the internet is downright foolish.  The internet is the greatest resource ever specifically for religious information of all sorts.  As with all things, you have to read carefully, but the internet (unlike every other source) provides enough data from different sources to allow you to make up your own mind.

/shakes head



actually i did google search it and found alot of crap about nothing.  it was always one sided and never anything important.  the most i found about actual research was about religious people going and performing tests and guess what they found...oh my god, it was real.  what does that mean.  nothing, because i found little of any real scientists doing any real research, so again, it points to the fact that this is what i thought i would find.  nothing important.

and i actually hate looking for stuff on the internet about religion, why, because you can post, write and do whatever you want and be far from the fact of what you are looking for.  i have studied muslim, hindu, christianity, and countless others of religions by actually going to holy places and talking to priests, rabbi's, shieks, etc. 

i still stick to the fact that 99.99999% of the internet is crap.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2006 at 11:13am

I think you folks are being a little hard on religion.

Granted much evil has been in the name of religion, but it's not like humans can't find other reasons to kill each other without religion.  Many of the world's great evils have had nothing to do with religion, and many others just had a convenient religious label stuck on them for good measure.

And religion has done much good in the world.  Leaving aside the issue of whether any given religion is actually correct, there are measurable benefits in this world.

On a social level, churches provide a gathering point and social focus.  In many small towns, the church is the mainstay and the glue of society.  In many blighted areas of bigger towns, churches serve the same purpose.

Religion is a powerful force in charity.  Many of the world's largest philantropic organizations are religious in nature.  On a smaller scale, churches run thousands of homeless shelters and soup kitchens in this country.  Religious beliefs are a powerful motivator to do good, and to donate time and money.

Most modern religions are (at least mostly) about peace, love, and harmony (older religions were a bit different, of course).  Nonviolence and compassion are standard doctrine in most churches.  Just because some religious people use religion as motivation for violence doesn't change the demographic fact that for most people religion is a motivator for peace and calm.

On an individual/psychological level there are plenty of studies that suggest that for many people a religious belief is important to their personal happiness.  Many people feel unsettled without confidence in a greater power and greater purpose.

These are all objectively observable positive results from religion today.  I am sure I could some up with some more if I thought about it.

Compared to the negatives of religion, is it a net win?  That is probably a subjective question and difficult to answer.  But it strikes me as an immutable fact that religion contributes many good and great things to the world today.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkSIDEofMOON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2006 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

I think you folks are being a little hard on religion.

Granted much evil has been in the name of religion, but it's not like humans can't find other reasons to kill each other without religion.  Many of the world's great evils have had nothing to do with religion, and many others just had a convenient religious label stuck on them for good measure.

And religion has done much good in the world.  Leaving aside the issue of whether any given religion is actually correct, there are measurable benefits in this world.

On a social level, churches provide a gathering point and social focus.  In many small towns, the church is the mainstay and the glue of society.  In many blighted areas of bigger towns, churches serve the same purpose.

Religion is a powerful force in charity.  Many of the world's largest philantropic organizations are religious in nature.  On a smaller scale, churches run thousands of homeless shelters and soup kitchens in this country.  Religious beliefs are a powerful motivator to do good, and to donate time and money.

Most modern religions are (at least mostly) about peace, love, and harmony (older religions were a bit different, of course).  Nonviolence and compassion are standard doctrine in most churches.  Just because some religious people use religion as motivation for violence doesn't change the demographic fact that for most people religion is a motivator for peace and calm.

On an individual/psychological level there are plenty of studies that suggest that for many people a religious belief is important to their personal happiness.  Many people feel unsettled without confidence in a greater power and greater purpose.

These are all objectively observable positive results from religion today.  I am sure I could some up with some more if I thought about it.

Compared to the negatives of religion, is it a net win?  That is probably a subjective question and difficult to answer.  But it strikes me as an immutable fact that religion contributes many good and great things to the world today.



well i have never hated a religious person, i just hate religion instiutions.  it is mainly the fact of their contridictions of written words and the fact that many times they always claim to be 100% truth which leads to many conflicts.  most notably right now is the Middle east and to a lesser degree is the Congo. 

yes religion in small scale operations help thousands if not millions of people a year.  but they have also caused just as many deaths in the world since their creation.  religion is another form of seperating one self from another human being.  they preach love and peace, but yet many times death and destruction come. 

ever heard the song from John Lennon...Imagine?  well Perfect Circle made a remake of the song, try finding the video online,  makes you think.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2006 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by darkSIDEofMOON darkSIDEofMOON wrote:

ever heard the song from John Lennon...Imagine?  well Perfect Circle made a remake of the song, try finding the video online,  makes you think.
Although I agree with your point, I try not to get my views from mtv.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reifidom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2006 at 2:30pm
I'm currently reading a book, Zen: Its History and Teachings, by Osho (Bridgewater Book Company, 2004), and I'm liking it a lot.

I'm still pondering over what it's telling me, and what it means to me, but here is what it has to say about religion. Also, keep in mind that this is not the beginning of the book, but two thirds through, and there is much explained leading to this.

"Once a beginner asked a Zen master,
'Master, what is the first principle?'
Without hesitation the master replied,
'If I were to tell you, it would become the second principle.'

The first principle cannot be said. The most important thing cannot be said, and that which can be said will not be the first principle. The moment truth is uttered it becomes a lie; the very utterance is a falsification. So all the scriptures of all the religions contain the second principle. They contain lies, not the truth, because the truth cannot be contained by any word whatsoever. The truth can only be experienced. The truth can be lived, but there is no way to say it.

The word is a far, faraway echo of the real experience. It is so far away from the real that it is worse than the unreal because it can give you a false confidence. It can give you a false promise. You can believe it, and that is the problem. If you start believing in some dogma, you will go on missing the truth. Truth has to be known by experience. No belief can help you on the way; all beliefs are barriers. All religions are against religion - it has to be so by the very nature of things. All churches are against God. Churches exist because they fulfill a certian need. The need is that people do not want to make any efforts; they want easy shortcuts. Belief is an easy shortcut.

The way to truth is hard; it is an uphill task. One has to go through total death - one has to destroy oneself utterly; only then is one newborn. The resurrection comes only after the crucifixion.

To avoid the crucifixion we have created beliefs. Beliefs are cheap. You can believe and yet remain the same. You can go on believing and it doesn't require any basic change in your life pattern. It does no require any change in your consciousness, and unless your consciousness changes, the belief is just a toy. You can play with it, you can deceive yourself with it, but it is not going to nourish you.

Visualize a child playing in the garden of his house, playing with imaginary lions, and then suddenly he has to face a real lion who has escaped from the zoo. Now he does not know what to do. He is scared out of his wits. He is paralyzed; he cannot even run. He was perfectly at ease with the imaginary, but with the real he does not know what to do.

That is the situation of all those people who go on playing with beliefs, concepts, philosophies, theologies. They ask questions just to ask questions. The answer is the last thing they are interested in. THey don't want the answer. They go on playing with questions, and each answer helps them to create more questions. Each answer is nothing more than a springboard for more questions. The truth is not a question. It is a quest! It is not intellectual; it is existential. The inquiry is a gamble, a gamble with your life. It needs tremendous courage. Belief needs no courage. Belief is the way of the coward. If you are a Christian or a Hindu, or a Mohammedan, you are a coward. You are avoiding the real lion.

If you want to face the real lion, then there is no need to go to any church, there is no need to go to any priest, because the real surrounds you within and without. You can face it - it is already there."

I'm of the mind that this is like the Dali Lama says, faith is far more important that religion. Next I have books by the same author on Tao, Buddism, and Tantra.

Edited by reifidom - 02 August 2006 at 2:46pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Destruction Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2006 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by bassist11 bassist11 wrote:

<TABLE id=table238 width="90%">
<T>
<TR>
<TD>

[IMG]height=179 alt="Mary at Zeitun" src="http://bibleprobe.com/maryatzeitun.gif" width=219>

</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD><FONT face=Arial color=#ffffff size=2>

<FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial size=2>

<FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=#000000>Starting in April, 1968, her apparitions of light changed the lives of thousands. Her appearances at Zeitun, Egypt were astounding. She was seen by more than a million people. The apparitions were broadcast by Egyptian TV, photographed by hundreds of professional photographers and personally witnessed by Egyptian President Abdul Nasser, an avowed Marxist. The apparitions lasted for three years with numerous unaccountable healings recorded by various medical professionals. The local police, who initially thought the apparitions were an elaborate hoax, searched a 15-mile radius surrounding the site to uncover any type of device that could be used to project such images. Tey were completely unsuccessful.<FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=#000000>



<FONT>

</TD></TR></T></TABLE>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nQaUmTsrGw

Edited by Destruction - 02 August 2006 at 5:00pm
u dont know what to do ur getting mottor boatted

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote battlefreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2006 at 9:17pm
Originally posted by Sammy Sammy wrote:

Originally posted by mbro mbro wrote:

Originally posted by battlefreak battlefreak wrote:

Originally posted by Boss_DJ Boss_DJ wrote:

Originally posted by travis75 travis75 wrote:

Originally posted by Enos Shenk Enos Shenk wrote:

You dont need religion to do good. I can go out and volunteer my time with no ulterior motive (i.e. getting more sheep to join my church).Why dont these damned churches put their money where their mouths are and stop building so many big frigging churches and use the money for something useful? Like charity?We dont need a church on every street corner. They dont all need a new building every 2 years.That alone proves that the church leaders are just out for personal gain, whether thats money or an inflated ego by being the biggest church in town.Dont get me wrong, Im a spiritual person. I just absolutely despise organized religion.
I could not agree with you more, Master Enos. I too have a strong dislike for the massive churches to whom people flock like sheep. It reminds me of the popularity contests back in middle school
<span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">
yea cause EVERY church does that...</span>
lmfao enos so ure saying churches dont give to chairity?
1. Filter dodge 2. He didn't say they didn't give to charity, just that they waste money on useless things that do nothing other than inflate their ego which could be better spent on charity.

 

What's your point? I'm sure there are things where money wasn't spent usefully but to say it is to only inflate their ego is preposterous. Might

as well say, Enos has a ds, but it doesn't have a purpose,

it is just to inflate his ego.

 

And Enos, you say that churches only expand for personal gain.  

Ever thought of a church running out of room? *Gasp* A church

can't have a new building, some kid in Africa is starving! Ever heard of

Saddleback Church? It probably is one of the biggest

churches in the US with one of the most humble pastors

*Rick Warren*. So this "Churches get new buildings every two years when they should be giving it all to charity" is a rather dumb reason for hating organized religion. .
exactly.....thank you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Fellows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2006 at 9:58pm
This is what I hate:

Originally posted by Benny Hinn Benny Hinn wrote:


"I don't need gold in heaven, I gotta have it now."

"...I put a curse upon anyone who comes against this ministry..."



Edited by Brian Fellows - 02 August 2006 at 9:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkSIDEofMOON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2006 at 1:25am
Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

Originally posted by darkSIDEofMOON darkSIDEofMOON wrote:

ever heard the song from John Lennon...Imagine?  well Perfect Circle made a remake of the song, try finding the video online,  makes you think.
Although I agree with your point, I try not to get my views from mtv.


oh i don't get my point of views from them but i liked the way they took the song.  interesting.

btw if you want to read a good couple of books try...

End of Belief (close to that) written by Sam harris or
Misqouting Jesus Christ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adrenalinejunky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2006 at 11:25am
Originally posted by Enos Shenk Enos Shenk wrote:

Religion has 2 purposes, and 2 purposes only. Anyone who says otherwise is just trying to justify a life of delusion.1: Offers hope of life after death. Death is the great mystery of life, and everyone is afraid of the unknown. Nobody wants to believe that they just stop existing, so the myth of heaven was created, to ease fear of death.2: Offers an opportunity to lord over other people with no rational counter-argument. When you insist on believing in something that has no scientific or rational proof, you cant be swayed from that position by rational argument. Religion offers an unscrupulous person the opportunity to lead others around by the nose, and make money doing it. Its like being a politician but better, because the only rules you have to follow are those you create, as long as they fit in the social frame of what the idiots you lead around will believe.


Amusing.

I tend to disagree, not to say that much religion isn't just that (benny hinn for an example already used) but that doesn't mean thats what it is exclusively.

but hey, i'm probably just deluded.

Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

Originally posted by .Ryan .Ryan wrote:

I will say though, the good done most probably doesn't begin to stack
up to the damage that has been done in it's name, but still.
Most assuredly, I mean, can you say Crusades?


the crusades weren't about religion, religion was used to justify it, but i quite think they would have happened either way. thats a personal belief though, there isn't much way to prove that, but just because something is given a religios stamp doesn't mean religion is what caused it.

don't get me wrong, i'm not saying religious extremists haven't done all kinds of screwed up things for the sake of religion, but people have done alot of screwed up things for alot of other purposes which i would be willing to bet most people wouldn't label as the devil, so to speak.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cedric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2006 at 12:44pm
MBro is my spiritual guide.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote travis75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2006 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by Cedric Cedric wrote:

MBro is my spiritual guide.


Steve Jobs is mine.
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