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FA22RaptorF22 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 June 2006 at 12:36am
Does putting oil in your asa actually oil your valve and is it bad for it to touch any stops it may encounter on the way?  Say a reg with vasoline or p-jelly in it.  Which leads to another question.  I get much talk of manufacturers lubing their regs and such with vasoline.  Is vasoline the same as p-jelly or just similar, and will p-jelly eat away at orings and vasoline will not.

Main topic question:
What is the best way to lube each part of your gun? 

Ill sticky this as Im hoping for just expert advice here to be talked out, not to argue.

Thanks and I hope will all benefit from this as there is much dispute on this, myself included.


Edited by FA22RaptorF22 - 29 June 2006 at 12:41am
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Dan db09 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan db09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2006 at 2:51am
No need to sticky... Just dissassemble your gun... Oil the internals... Bolts, Springs, ect. Oil threads on parts that go on yoour gun, for example if you have an expansion chamber... Barrel and barrel adapter threads... Oil your O-rings so the don't dry rot. Also a quick way to oil is simply putting oil on the thread of the ASA and dry firing your marker. It will then dispense oil throughout your marker... Easy as that.

Edited by Dan db09 - 29 June 2006 at 12:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2006 at 6:20am

As Dan said, easy as that. Don't know where this idea of Vaseline (same as petrolatum/petroleum jelly) for lube came from. It may work, but it certainly isn't designed for that.

A few drops of light oil (Hoppe's Gun Oil or Air Tool oil, either will work just fine) in the ASA before installing the tank and then dry firing, without the barrel, distributes oil to all the necessary places. It lubes and cleans regulators, the power valve sealing surfaces and oils the "O" ring on the hammer(rear bolt). You might need to add one or two drops directly on the "O" ring on the forward bolt, but you are done.

It is recommended that a little heavier grease on the hammer "O" ring can improve function when that "O ring gets worn a bit. White lithium grease is the proper choice.

A little lithium grease smeared on the areas of the inside of the marker shell against which the rear bolt slides will make the marker function more smoothly. Particularly after you have done an internal polish job.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S\/\/4T-L()G4N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2006 at 4:32pm
Vasoline and petroleum jelly are the same thing. Neither will make your o-rings deteriorate. However, while we are on the topic, anything with alcohol will. Many people have the misconception that WD-40 is a lubricant, whereas it is really a solvent which will break down o-rings and cause them to crisp up.

I do not believe that pretroleum jelly or grease has any place in a paintball gun. Grease is not made for oiling fast moving sliding parts of this nature. Light oil not only will last a long time, but it will do just as good of a job lubricating the marker.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan db09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2006 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by S\/\/4T-L()G4N S\/\/4T-L()G4N wrote:

I do not believe that pretroleum jelly or grease has any place in a paintball gun. Grease is not made for oiling fast moving sliding parts of this nature. Light oil not only will last a long time, but it will do just as good of a job lubricating the marker.


Edited by Dan db09 - 29 June 2006 at 4:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2006 at 9:47pm

Originally posted by S\/\/4T-L()G4N S\/\/4T-L()G4N wrote:

Vasoline and petroleum jelly are the same thing. Neither will make your o-rings deteriorate. However, while we are on the topic, anything with alcohol will. Many people have the misconception that WD-40 is a lubricant, whereas it is really a solvent which will break down o-rings and cause them to crisp up.

I do not believe that pretroleum jelly or grease has any place in a paintball gun. Grease is not made for oiling fast moving sliding parts of this nature. Light oil not only will last a long time, but it will do just as good of a job lubricating the marker.

Lithium grease is light enough and not affected by temperatures to work well on the hammer. It also works very well on the ram piston in E-Bolt conversions...even in uncapped systems working at 20 cycles per second.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FA22RaptorF22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2006 at 10:28pm
thanks...im going to try some of that stuff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S\/\/4T-L()G4N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2006 at 11:20pm
Originally posted by Bruce A. Frank Bruce A. Frank wrote:

Originally posted by S\/\/4T-L()G4N S\/\/4T-L()G4N wrote:

Vasoline and petroleum jelly are the same thing. Neither will make your o-rings deteriorate. However, while we are on the topic, anything with alcohol will. Many people have the misconception that WD-40 is a lubricant, whereas it is really a solvent which will break down o-rings and cause them to crisp up. I do not believe that pretroleum jelly or grease has any place in a paintball gun. Grease is not made for oiling fast moving sliding parts of this nature. Light oil not only will last a long time, but it will do just as good of a job lubricating the marker.


Lithium grease is light enough and not affected by temperatures to work well on the hammer. It also works very well on the ram piston in E-Bolt conversions...even in uncapped systems working at 20 cycles per second.



Interesting. I suppose I have never seen this so called "white lithium" you all usually bring up. The "All Purpose Lithium Grease" I use on my tractor would NOT work...

Are you talking about white lithium? Because there are obviously different lithiums...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FA22RaptorF22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2006 at 12:03am
So using lithium grease for pistons / orings and such, and oil ie gold cup,  for the valve and stuff is my best bet?  Lithium grease is just a better replacement for the jelly right?  My personal favorite...is the slick honey...any of you guys use that?

As for lubing the valve, my lpk valve has a c-clip on it so its easy to disassemble, so i usually lube it that way.  Is oil in the asa do the same thing?

Edit: all this is on a gun like yours bruce...so no rear o ring and such.  I have a lpk'ed, 2 way ebolt, w/ 05 ego frame uncapped. Aluminum powertube / delerin front bolt.  

Thanks 

Edited by FA22RaptorF22 - 30 June 2006 at 12:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2006 at 3:28am

Originally posted by FA22RaptorF22 FA22RaptorF22 wrote:

So using lithium grease for pistons / orings and such, and oil ie gold cup,  for the valve and stuff is my best bet?  Lithium grease is just a better replacement for the jelly right?  My personal favorite...is the slick honey...any of you guys use that?

As for lubing the valve, my lpk valve has a c-clip on it so its easy to disassemble, so i usually lube it that way.  Is oil in the asa do the same thing?

Edit: all this is on a gun like yours bruce...so no rear o ring and such.  I have a lpk'ed, 2 way ebolt, w/ 05 ego frame uncapped. Aluminum powertube / delerin front bolt.  

Thanks 

Sounds like an interesting gun. Yes, oil in the ASA does the same thing.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shadowminion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 July 2006 at 8:12pm

My personal favorites for lubrication , are similar to what FA22 called "Slick honey" , namely a synthetic lubricant , usually with teflon,or molecular molybdnium (Moly), unaffected by temperature changes, or mild chemical concentrations .

My use of grease is sparingly , on the CO2 tank O-ring , and just barely enough on the rear bolt area to tell something's been put there, but not enough to see , and then I follow up with a couple drops of oil on the rear bolt too , to lighten up the grease's tendency to be thick . Everything else gets oil , straight up .

To lubricate the CVX valves internals , it most convenient to do exactly as everybody's said so far,,,a couple drops in the air supply adapter and dry fire your marker (please remove the barrel tho , oil in the barrel is as bad as a broken ball , and harder to see ) about 20-30 times to thoroughly work the oil through the innards . I've disassembled the CVX valves before , it takes some specialized tools most people dont have (snap ring pliers , small scribes , pin punches and such )and can be a challenge even with those tools , definitly not worth the trouble involved for lubricating the CVX valve !!

 Tippmann does (or did) use teflon sealing paste where the hose connects into the CVX valve , and after about 6 months of fairly consistent use every weekend or so,, some of that paste migrated onto the sealing face of the valve , causing the symptom of a bad CVX valve , this in part happened because I lubricated the marker regularly throught the ASA , but would have happened eventually anyway . After replacing the CVX valve with a new one , I took apart the old one and discovered this . Just a heads up , I've heard of this happening and most people just replace the valve when its really not bad .

Stay AWAY from anything that claims to be a penetrating oil , they contain solvents as S\/\/4T-L()G4N said and will slowly dissolve your o-rings , once the solvent evaporates , your orings will crack .



Edited by Shadowminion - 03 July 2006 at 8:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FA22RaptorF22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 July 2006 at 8:39pm
Thanks.  Ive also said, i have more than enough of the necessary equipment.  Snap rings are fairly easy enough to remove and since i have replaced it with a c clip, they are VERY easy to remove.
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I donít have one either. Is that good???

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 July 2006 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by S\/\/4T-L()G4N S\/\/4T-L()G4N wrote:

Are you talking about white lithium? Because there are obviously different lithiums...


You can buy lithium grease in tubes (probably what you are using), and it can also be found in spray cans. It is available in auto parts stores, it is marketed to spray on squeaky hinges, etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2006 at 2:36am
meh, lithium grease is just a little too thick to use on regular internals. I try to reserve it for regulators, where piston movement is gonna have a TON of pressure behind it.

Hoppes 9 is the answer. Its cheap and you can find it almost anywhere. Drops of oil in the ASA are not really a good choice. Just oil al the o-rings in the gun. Your airline does not need oil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S\/\/4T-L()G4N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2006 at 11:29am
What about the inside of the reg/valve?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2006 at 12:24pm

Originally posted by S\/\/4T-L()G4N S\/\/4T-L()G4N wrote:

What about the inside of the reg/valve?
The white lithium grease that I refer to is not a thick or viscous material. It provides more protection than does light oils, but it is not so heavy as to gum up the works or slow operation of the marker. In fact, in high abrasion areas or high pressure contact areas, such as hammer sliding against the inside of the receiver or the hammer "O" ring as it slides over the edge of the power tube (particularly if you are using an after-market aluminum power tube) application of lithium grease smooths operation and improves cycle rates.

As for use in a regulator. I would expect no problems. Certainly the grease will cause no deterioration of the internal "O" rings. But, I have just sent an Email to Glenn Palmer, Palmer Pursuit, asking his opinion and will pass it along when I get an answer.

I have used a thin layer of white lithium gease in my power valve and it has worked well. It is just much easier to place a few drops of oil in the ASA to distribute oil than it is to regularly open the marker and specifically lube the power valve (requiring unscrewing of the gas fitting from the valve). But when I do open the receivers I will dab the hammer with some grease, particularly if I see any abrasion marks on the receiver or the hammer itself.

BTW, oil in the ASA has been mentioned in several paintball magazine articles as a proper way to lube the internal moving parts in markers. It is also a method taught to the paintball mechanic/technician at my local paintball store. 

Reply from Glenn Palmer on Using White Lithium Grease INSIDE the Palmer Stabilizer:

If using Compressed air, lithium is generally not a problem.

However, CO2 tends to mix with lithium to turn it into something that is close kin to chewing gum in texture.



Edited by Bruce A. Frank - 08 July 2006 at 3:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enos Shenk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2006 at 4:55pm
Meh, Im still opposed to the whole idea of oiling the ASA and calling it a day. Theres absolutely no replacement for taking the gun apart and cleaning the thing.

Oil mixes with dirt that gets in your gun and soon you have basically mud coating your internals if you never crack the thing open.

Oil in the ASA is good for one thing: Oiling the valve and any air gear on the gun. I would NOT rely on it to lube the main action of the gun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 July 2006 at 12:38am

Originally posted by Enos Shenk Enos Shenk wrote:

Meh, Im still opposed to the whole idea of oiling the ASA and calling it a day. Theres absolutely no replacement for taking the gun apart and cleaning the thing.

Oil mixes with dirt that gets in your gun and soon you have basically mud coating your internals if you never crack the thing open.

Oil in the ASA is good for one thing: Oiling the valve and any air gear on the gun. I would NOT rely on it to lube the main action of the gun.

What is the main action of the gun, that wouldn't get oiled by the ASA method? Oil through the ASA would hit the regulator, the power valve, blow back would assure that the hammer get oiled. The mist of oil in the blow back gets to the main spring and to the trigger and sear areas. The Cyclone actuator would get oiled. The forward bolt would get oil where it slides on the power tube. The only place that might need a drop or two would be the forward bolt "O" ring and a Cyclone feed mechanism might need a drop or two where the star pivots.

I agree that periodically the marker should be taken apart and cleaned and oiled. But the ASA method is more than many people will do, so it seems a pretty good start. And a minimum that should be done week to week.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RavenGuard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 July 2006 at 9:38am
The only thing you should really be using grease for is the cyclone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 July 2006 at 3:51pm

Originally posted by RavenGuard RavenGuard wrote:

The only thing you should really be using grease for is the cyclone.

As I have said before, the lithium grease works extremely well on the body of the hammer where it rubs against the inside of the receiver. It also does an excellent job on the hammer's "O" ring where it slides into the power tube.

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