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This had better not pass

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Linus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

Since when is left handedness a learned trait???


Think about paintball for a minute.

If you want ANY chance of doing well in the speedball field, according to pros you need to be able to shoot almost as well, if not just as well, with your off hand as you do your normal hand.

But a lot of people dont have that ability naturally... they have to learn it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 3:55pm
Hmm, weird, the wiki on it doesnt say anything about "learning" to become left handed as a source. Does talk about genetics and random occurance alot though. But jeez, what do all those studies know, you're smarter than science right linus?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-handed#Causes_of_left-hand edness

And yeah, even if both parents are left handed, doesnt meant the kid will be either. Where have I heard something similar to that.....this thread...maybe?...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

Since when is left handedness a learned trait???


Think about paintball for a minute.

If you want ANY chance of doing well in the speedball field, according to pros you need to be able to shoot almost as well, if not just as well, with your off hand as you do your normal hand.

But a lot of people dont have that ability naturally... they have to learn it.


That's ambidextrous you moron. Truely left handed isnt a learned trait.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cadet_sergeant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 4:00pm

/me skips past 6 1/2 pages

leave it to the states. i hate that my party is promoting big government, the same goes for that terry shivo (SP?) crap. the government needs to let the states regulate things like this, if some one lives in a state that allows **edited** marriage, and moves to a state that doesn't then their marriage is voided in that state.

no left handed people cracks, left handed people > no handed people

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 4:03pm
Choopie.. dont get aggressive.


Look at Pavlov's dog. (No.. his dog didnt have hands.. it's an example for people that actually know anything about psychology)

You can EASILY train a kid from birth to use their left hand and make them not use the right so they aren't ambidextrous.

No real reason to do it, but it an be done.

Edited by Linus - 08 June 2006 at 4:03pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 4:09pm
but that's training. point is people have the natural tendency to favor one over the other. not meaning that by saying naturally people as a collective use one over the other. it's that a person will begin to use one as they develop.

by your logic, my mother who was born in a family of all right handed people, two right handed parents and 5 right handed siblings, she should be right handed due to her surroundings. she's left handed despite all that stimuli.


Edited by High Voltage - 08 June 2006 at 4:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 4:09pm

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

You can EASILY train a kid from birth to use their left hand and make them not use the right so they aren't ambidextrous.

Easily, you say?

I daresay you have never tried training a kid from birth to do anything, and challenge you to find a single study to support your claim.

But yes, it is possible to learn to use your off hand.

But this is also irrelevant.  Left-handedness is the result of a brain abnormality that leads to a strengthened right hemisphere.  Most people are predominantly left hemisphere oriented.

You might be able to learn to use your other hand, but you will remain left/right handed.  It is not a learned characteristic, but a physiological feature of the brain caused by hormone shifts in utero.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 4:14pm
I'll have to bring home my psych book tomorrow.

It talk about how one psychologist did a study on a kid where he, through a series of stimuli, ended up making the kid afraid of bunnies, without the bunny doing any actualy physical harm to him.

The parents pulled him out of the study before it could be reveresed.


Can't remember the psychologist name for the life of me. I want to say Carl Jung but I know it's not right. He's intro/extroversion.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 4:20pm

Jung was not a behaviorist.

But you cannot extrapolate from Pavlov's dog or the bunnies to "it is easy to teach a kid to use his off hand.  Skinner would be most upset if you tried that stretch.

There is no biological inhibition against being afraid of bunnies - there is a biological prediliction in favor of one hand.

And even if there weren't - it would violate every scientific principle to casually extrapolate like that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Wont See Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:



Brihard, WRONG. Just because some test came to the "conclusion" that they are born like that doesnt make it so.
 


Like you said on page 4.
A-5
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Linus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Jung was not a behaviorist.

I said I know it wasn't Carl Jung, did I not?


Thanks for emphazising a moot point.



And I said you can teach them not to use their normal hand, but to use their off-hand and make their off hand their dominant hand.


Look at people who get amputated arms.. if they lose their dominant hand, they can learn to use their off hand just was well a lot of the time.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 4:36pm

You make such general statements, Linus, with no backing.

SOME people learn to use their off hand.  SOME amputees learn to cope well.

You have absolutely no foundation whatsoever for your sweeping claims.  You cannot simply disregard facts that are inconvenient to your position.

It is proven beyond any scientific doubt that handed-ness is a biological characteristic, not a learned characteristic.  All you are accomplishing with this insistence to the contrary is making yourself look goofy.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 4:38pm
nobody said that it can't be learned. we are saying that it IS determined by a physical characeristic of the brain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dazed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

That's not quite accurate.


Issues of justice aside, banning **edited** marriage pretty clearly and directly harms **edited** people.


Allowing **edited** marriage directly harms nobody.



For the sake of getting an answer to the bigger question, I let the smaller details go. Looks like its a moot point though, no one wants to step up to the plate and give me a solid answer, or even concede the point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 4:44pm

I forget the question - try me again and I'll try to answer.

:)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nrthsll1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 5:59pm

I think I read through the 1st 2 pages then kinda gave up.  Alot of opinion on this one.

Our lawmakers really dont need to be wasting time on this one, especially at the federal level.  Marriage is a civil union, and should be addressed (if it HAS to be addressed) on a state level.  By no means should the president of the US have wasted anything more than a passing comment on his opinion, then dropped it forever.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 6:14pm
I want to know when linus became an expert on scientific matters? Linus your just spouting off opinions and not facts when it come to your scientific data....aka grasping at straws.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 6:16pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:


**edited** marriage is one of those topics where it is almost an impossibility to change someones mind on it.


It is only impossible for someone to change thier mind if someone doesnt look at the issues objectively.

Not only is it not impossible to change ones opinion on the topic it happens all the time.

Edited by Hades - 08 June 2006 at 6:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote procarbinefreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 6:18pm

so i just skimmed through this last page... and is linus trying to bring classical conditioning into this debate? 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 6:44pm
Originally posted by procarbinefreak procarbinefreak wrote:

so i just skimmed through this last page... and is linus trying to bring classical conditioning into this debate? 

 

Homosexuals can be conditioned into being not-homosexual. I think that is what he is trying.

Maybe, I really cant tell with him.

 


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