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This had better not pass

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    Posted: 08 June 2006 at 7:45pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

You have absolutely no foundation whatsoever for your sweeping claims.  You cannot simply disregard facts that are inconvenient to your position.
Well my friend, that's called truthiness and I invented it.  It's not about what those "facts" or "statistics" say is true.  It's about what you feel is true.  And I for one feel truthiness is the right way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 7:29pm
Yeah, I forgot how super smart Linus is. Remind me never to agrue with him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cedric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 7:26pm
Regular classes at that school are pretty much AP courses if I remember correctly.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 6:53pm

Originally posted by procarbinefreak procarbinefreak wrote:

Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

I want to know when linus became an expert on scientific matters? Linus your just spouting off opinions and not facts when it come to your scientific data....aka grasping at straws.


but he's in HS Psychology... he knows everything about the topic... obviously ....

Well his HS is special. Only super smart AP kids go there.

Dont try to argue him man. I thought you were smarter than that.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote procarbinefreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 6:52pm
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

I want to know when linus became an expert on scientific matters? Linus your just spouting off opinions and not facts when it come to your scientific data....aka grasping at straws.


but he's in HS Psychology... he knows everything about the topic... obviously ....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 6:44pm
Originally posted by procarbinefreak procarbinefreak wrote:

so i just skimmed through this last page... and is linus trying to bring classical conditioning into this debate? 

 

Homosexuals can be conditioned into being not-homosexual. I think that is what he is trying.

Maybe, I really cant tell with him.

 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote procarbinefreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 6:18pm

so i just skimmed through this last page... and is linus trying to bring classical conditioning into this debate? 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 6:16pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:


**edited** marriage is one of those topics where it is almost an impossibility to change someones mind on it.


It is only impossible for someone to change thier mind if someone doesnt look at the issues objectively.

Not only is it not impossible to change ones opinion on the topic it happens all the time.

Edited by Hades - 08 June 2006 at 6:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 6:14pm
I want to know when linus became an expert on scientific matters? Linus your just spouting off opinions and not facts when it come to your scientific data....aka grasping at straws.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nrthsll1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 5:59pm

I think I read through the 1st 2 pages then kinda gave up.  Alot of opinion on this one.

Our lawmakers really dont need to be wasting time on this one, especially at the federal level.  Marriage is a civil union, and should be addressed (if it HAS to be addressed) on a state level.  By no means should the president of the US have wasted anything more than a passing comment on his opinion, then dropped it forever.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 4:44pm

I forget the question - try me again and I'll try to answer.

:)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dazed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

That's not quite accurate.


Issues of justice aside, banning **edited** marriage pretty clearly and directly harms **edited** people.


Allowing **edited** marriage directly harms nobody.



For the sake of getting an answer to the bigger question, I let the smaller details go. Looks like its a moot point though, no one wants to step up to the plate and give me a solid answer, or even concede the point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 4:38pm
nobody said that it can't be learned. we are saying that it IS determined by a physical characeristic of the brain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 4:36pm

You make such general statements, Linus, with no backing.

SOME people learn to use their off hand.  SOME amputees learn to cope well.

You have absolutely no foundation whatsoever for your sweeping claims.  You cannot simply disregard facts that are inconvenient to your position.

It is proven beyond any scientific doubt that handed-ness is a biological characteristic, not a learned characteristic.  All you are accomplishing with this insistence to the contrary is making yourself look goofy.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Jung was not a behaviorist.

I said I know it wasn't Carl Jung, did I not?


Thanks for emphazising a moot point.



And I said you can teach them not to use their normal hand, but to use their off-hand and make their off hand their dominant hand.


Look at people who get amputated arms.. if they lose their dominant hand, they can learn to use their off hand just was well a lot of the time.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Wont See Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:



Brihard, WRONG. Just because some test came to the "conclusion" that they are born like that doesnt make it so.
 


Like you said on page 4.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 4:20pm

Jung was not a behaviorist.

But you cannot extrapolate from Pavlov's dog or the bunnies to "it is easy to teach a kid to use his off hand.  Skinner would be most upset if you tried that stretch.

There is no biological inhibition against being afraid of bunnies - there is a biological prediliction in favor of one hand.

And even if there weren't - it would violate every scientific principle to casually extrapolate like that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 4:14pm
I'll have to bring home my psych book tomorrow.

It talk about how one psychologist did a study on a kid where he, through a series of stimuli, ended up making the kid afraid of bunnies, without the bunny doing any actualy physical harm to him.

The parents pulled him out of the study before it could be reveresed.


Can't remember the psychologist name for the life of me. I want to say Carl Jung but I know it's not right. He's intro/extroversion.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 4:09pm

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

You can EASILY train a kid from birth to use their left hand and make them not use the right so they aren't ambidextrous.

Easily, you say?

I daresay you have never tried training a kid from birth to do anything, and challenge you to find a single study to support your claim.

But yes, it is possible to learn to use your off hand.

But this is also irrelevant.  Left-handedness is the result of a brain abnormality that leads to a strengthened right hemisphere.  Most people are predominantly left hemisphere oriented.

You might be able to learn to use your other hand, but you will remain left/right handed.  It is not a learned characteristic, but a physiological feature of the brain caused by hormone shifts in utero.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 4:09pm
but that's training. point is people have the natural tendency to favor one over the other. not meaning that by saying naturally people as a collective use one over the other. it's that a person will begin to use one as they develop.

by your logic, my mother who was born in a family of all right handed people, two right handed parents and 5 right handed siblings, she should be right handed due to her surroundings. she's left handed despite all that stimuli.


Edited by High Voltage - 08 June 2006 at 4:09pm
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