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Topic ClosedSnipers are real

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Rambino View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2006 at 6:41pm

Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

You're trying to claim on their behalf that they do not, in fact, mean 'sniper' as it relates to the military occupation.

On the contrary.  I agree completely that they are trying to play military sniper.  Woodsball is in many ways pretend military.

But the key word is PRETEND.

Quote Catch one of the kids alone and ask him what a paintball sniper means to him in a totally neutral manner, adn they'll tell you damned near without fail that they're gonna hide in a bush and pick people off from long range like an army sniper does.

Again, no disagreement.

Quote Most kids you catch playing sniper have kit they've tailored towards a MilSim look- stocks, optics, sometimes longer range barrels. Tell me, with a straight face, that they're not in fact trying to emulate military snipers in their style of play.

Again, no disagreement.

Quote Us military types do not deem ourselves better 'authorities on this childrens' game' based on our experiences. ... If kids want to play MilSim, then by all means, that's cool with me- but they have to pick the aprts they can emulate, and not try to wedge anything else in that doesn't fit. [emphasis added]

If you come across kids playing with GI Joe action figures, do you also feel the need to correct their terminology and tactics, because they are engaged in milsim activity?

It is a GAME.  Milsim is PRETEND.  And when you PRETEND you MAKE UP things - heck, you can MAKE UP whatever you want.  That why it's a game.  And that's ok.

It is when ADULTS get engaged in a terminology discussion with children over a game that the embarassment begins.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2006 at 6:47pm
Originally posted by Rambino Rambino wrote:

It is when ADULTS get engaged in a terminology discussion with children over a game that the embarassment begins.



I will point out that you are as guilty of this as the rest of us.

I always love to see a lawyer hoisted by his own petard.
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2006 at 6:53pm
I certainly didnít intend to give the impression that marketing correlates to 100% concrete fact. If Iíve learned anything in my 32 years, it is, donít believe the hype. What I was pointing out is that the term ďsniperĒ is becoming more and more commonplace among manufacturers, game promoters, and players. Five years ago, using the word ďsniperĒ was guaranteed to get you laughed off any field in America. Now, I hear the term used almost constantly. Iím not saying itís right or wrong. I just see it gaining popularity and not disappearing anytime soon.

As for marketing to inexperienced newbies, maybe thatís their plan but I know dozens of experienced (10 or more years) players that are buying into the idea and buying the merchandise. Like some of our forum members, many of these players are currently active, former military, or in law enforcement. In fact, I know two active duty snipers in the Army that refer to themselves as ďsnipersĒ in paintball.

Personally, Iím still on the fence when it comes to ďsnipingĒ in paintball. Iím from the school where it has been a bad word or a long time. If your only paintball experiences have been speedball, tourneys, woodsball, open-play, or big games, I can see how the term can be foreign and laughable. However, with the players and scenario game formats Iím involved with, itís starting to grow on me and I can see practical use for the terminology.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2006 at 6:55pm
The problem here is a true military vs civilian issue. Lets look deeper. Paintball as originally developed for the masses was a "wargame" where civilians could play "soldier" without the consequences associated with it. Active and ex-military enjoyed the game and began to impart the tactics and techniques of thier proffesion, and the civilians began to mimic them.

Then came the dramatic split between the PC crowd and the military theme crowd. And since then the game has turned in ot a jumble of styles and techniques where unfortuanately TEAMWORK has almost become secondary.

From major scenarios to backyard ball someone in the group decides he will do "his own thing" and his team then suffers. No other organized TEAM sport allows players to leave the TEAM concept for an individual approach.

Yes we military types comment and try to impart the knowledge of expierience on those armed with just a concept, just a a pro baseballer will teach a little leaguer how to play the game. But too many here take offense or just refuse to see the true nature of thier arguement.

I do not care who calls themselves what. Anytime I lead a TEAM, when a young trooper announces "I will be the sniper", I immediately adjust my combat power accordingly figuring our "hero" will "hide and hope", contribute little to the overall team mission, but will allways share in the glory of victory.

Ask anyone who has seen me play, I can use techniques and talents learned only from years of expierience both military and just playing this game, yet try to teach a technique or skill and our amatuer freind will figure what does this oldguy know and will go off and do his own thing and can not understand why it does no work like he sees in the hollywood version.

I have two very distinctly designed "Interdiction Rifles" a moded SL68II, with teflon lined barrel, modified liquid valve, offset spotting scope, and all the accuracy at 20-30meters to be expected from a round ball fired from a smoothbore. The other is a highly modified 68Special, again teflon lined barrel, modified valve assembly, and a purposely designed muzzelbrake to increase the noise signature of the marker, accuracy is again to be the norm expected, and the sound accomplishes more than than the ball for the mission required. Each is mission specific, but in no sense are they "sniper rifles".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2006 at 7:05pm

Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

Originally posted by Rambino Rambino wrote:

It is when ADULTS get engaged in a terminology discussion with children over a game that the embarassment begins.


I will point out that you are as guilty of this as the rest of us.

This is an internet discussion forum.  Child-filled semantics discussions a-plenty.  Sadly, in many cases the children are better at both the semantics and the discussions than the adults.

But, as OS correctly points out, paintball is nothing more than a souped-up version of the old "bang-bang" games we all played as 10-year-olds. 

Can you imagine the devastation if you, at age 10, had your game of bang bang interrupted by some army guy, because you weren't using the correct terminology and tactics, and you HAD TO limit your play to situations you could correctly emulate?

It's a game.  They are kids.  Let them play.

 

EDIT - revisiting my favorite quote, emphasis again added:

Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

If kids want to play MilSim, then by all means, that's cool with me- but they have to pick the aprts they can emulate, and not try to wedge anything else in that doesn't fit.

I hope you realize how awful that sounds.



Edited by Rambino - 29 May 2006 at 7:09pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2006 at 7:34pm
Can we please let this die?
If I attack, follow me

If I flee, kill me

If I die, avenge me

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2006 at 7:54pm

Yes we do have the ability to let this die but we also have the ability to keep it alive and thats what they choose

BTW-For everyone who said paintballing is not a sport it is. Its on ESPN, actually it was on all day today.

 

Thinking about it...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2006 at 7:56pm
yea i saw it on the other day, i think they were playing in sunny california....didnt watch the entire thing though
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2006 at 7:58pm
Miami.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2006 at 7:59pm
It's like California, just the water's on the other side.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2006 at 8:29pm
this thread is so ridiculas and annoying it makes my brain hurt. everytime i see this thread another part of my brain dies.
Canadians do it on top.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2006 at 8:44pm
Originally posted by aGUYnamedLARRY aGUYnamedLARRY wrote:

Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

Originally posted by jerseypaint jerseypaint wrote:

Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Originally posted by jerseypaint jerseypaint wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:


Originally posted by ANARCHY_SCOUT ANARCHY_SCOUT wrote:

dude you realize he probably is 12. no snipers end of story, period.
our lord ANARCHY_SCOUT has spoken, let it be.


now can we talk about flamethrowers in paintball. i've been playing for 15 years and i use mine every game


i have a flmathrower to...but i only use it on useless threads...it types the letters for me hey did any1 notice the kid who posted this thread hasnt replied for the longest time...Well it was a long war and many have fallen to the stupidty of the other side but we have triumph so lets us sip our champaigne and dance in teh streets to the music of our conutry men...Hooray
*flamethrower*anyone*hasn't*stupidity*triumphed*champagne*th e*countryQuit posting. Anyone who miss-spells "stupidity" is not allowed to comment on the ignorance of others.
I never get any respect. (or how i wuld have typed it if i wasn't in fear of usafpilot07) i neva get no reptsect
You have to earn respect dude, it's not just a given thing.



Yeah exactly, my idea of what sniping in paint ball would be is either sharpshooter or light rifleman



i never said it was given...where did u guys get that from?..i was quoting Rodney Dangerfield...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2006 at 8:55pm
I have actually enjoyed this thread a lot, I'm learning from you guys .

I had the chance to actually see good arguments and not just the typical "no-snipers-in-paintball-shut-up-IBL-LOCK" threads.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2006 at 8:58pm

Originally posted by daniero daniero wrote:

I have actually enjoyed this thread a lot, I'm learning from you guys .

I had the chance to actually see good arguments and not just the typical "no-snipers-in-paintball-shut-up-IBL-LOCK" threads.
whats there to learn the morons are just repeating themselves over and over

... sorry it's the menopause



Edited by carl_the_sniper - 29 May 2006 at 8:59pm
<just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs>
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2006 at 9:00pm
Rambino,

Never in a million years did I expect you be arguing with the pro-sniper people.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2006 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by Snake6 Snake6 wrote:

Rambino,

Never in a million years did I expect you be arguing with the pro-sniper people.


He just needs a good argument once a week or so. It keeps his skills sharp.
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2006 at 9:02pm
Not that I'm learning something new, but why is this so debated.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2006 at 9:03pm
Originally posted by daniero daniero wrote:

Not that I'm learning something new, but why is this so debated.
once again cause there morons.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2006 at 9:16pm

WOW. I remember when this is on page like......four?

Paintball is a game. Its not about doing all these crazy tactics and everything, its about following a very simple plan (Like sneak around and then attack. Or hide in the bushes over there). Doing all these military tactics in woodsball is like playing in the NHL, NFL, MLB etc. because your looking to win and nothing else anymore, and forgot that you started doing this because it was fun.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2006 at 9:28pm

I'm trying to wrap my head around this whole 'sniper' thing.

In order to better understand, let me ask something.

If a real military sniper was running around with a group of grunts/rifleman, occasionally popping his bipod out and resting it on something and firing an occasional shot, would he really be a sniper?  Just because he's hefting his Barret around?  Or is the act of being a sniper require stealth and stationary concealment?

In another example, if a real military sniper only had a standard rifle and scope, which didn't offer any range advantage with the enemy, but used stealth (ghillie suit for instance) and stationary concealment to hide his position, would he not be considered a sniper because he's not using an actual sniper rifle?

Mirriam-Webster defines a sniper as:

1)  one who shoots at exposed individuals (as of an enemy's forces) from a usually concealed point of vantage

It makes no mention of range, or the ability of the enemy to be able to shoot back.

This tells me that there can be paintball snipers.  They are simply people who typically are more stealthy (possibly through the use of extra camo), who lie in wait to pick off people who don't notice them until it's too late.



Edited by Torquestar - 29 May 2006 at 9:29pm
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