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Worst President Ever?

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brihard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2006 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

You're blinded by patriotism, Linus.

Highlighting this excellent observation - although this problem is certainly not limited to Linus.

Many people are unable to distinguish between how things actually are, and how they think thing ought to be.

As to the currency issue - obviously a hideously complex matter.  But is a wrinkle to consider:  When a large commercial bank lends a zillion dollars to a large company in a different country, chances are pretty good that the loan is made in US dollars, even if neither the bank or the borrower are American.  The same is also true of many non-loan commercial transactions.  National debts around the world are also mostly measured in US dollars.

This means that all of these banks, borrowers, and countries must maintain or hedge dollar reserves.  This both props up the currency and stabilizes it (since many dollars are essentially tucked away under a mattress).

The US dollar has had a near monopoly on major international money transactions for many years.  But as other currencies become more stable, they become attractive alternatives.  This is aggravated by the high US national debt, which leads some to think that a dollar devaluation may be necessary.

The Euro in particular has arisen as a competitor.  Many large international loan transactions (even some involving US companies) are now conducted in Euros instead of US dollars.  I don't know if this is a growing trend or has stabilized, or whether a significant amount of national debts are now measured in Euros, but there clearly is a change underway.

And if the World Bank starts using the Euro, if most international debts (public and private) are measured in Euros rather than dollars, this would be a MAJOR blow to the US economy.  We have coasted to our benefit on the strength of the dollar for decades.  If we don't watch it, we may soon find out how the other half lives.



Oh hell. I hadn't even though of the world bank or the IMF- the anti-U.S. sentiment in the United Nations might be enough to make that happen in the forseeable future too. If there's any risk of the $USD destabilizing they'll be the first to get off the bus...
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

Yup, he actually said that.
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mbro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2006 at 2:04pm
Hey Clark, could you stop being smart?

Thanks.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
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Linus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2006 at 3:23pm
Brihard.. nothing in your post counters my point: The Euro is backed up by multiple countries, making it strong, becuase people have faith in them.

The $USD is backed up by one strong country, making it strong, becuase people have faith in it.

People have faith in BOTH the USD and Euro... but if the Euro was only used in 5 countries, instead of over 20, it WOULD NOT be as strong as the USD.

THAT is what I was saying in my post.

Along with if the US economy falters, the whole worlds economy falters.

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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2006 at 4:14pm

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:


Along with if the US economy falters, the whole worlds economy falters.

This is certainly true, to a large extent - but so is the converse:  If the world's economy falters (or any large portion thereof), then the US economy falters.

Many Americans have this illusion that the world is somehow more dependent upon the US than the US is upon the world, despite that even a cursory examination of world markets shows that we are all quite interrelated.

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Linus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2006 at 4:18pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Many Americans have this illusion that the world is somehow more dependent upon the US than the US is upon the world, despite that even a cursory examination of world markets shows that we are all quite interrelated.

Hope that isn't directed toward me...

But I do agree.. to many people think we rule the world. Not true.

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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2006 at 4:21pm

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Hope that isn't directed toward me...

Not necessarily.  Just seemed a logical followup.

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brihard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2006 at 4:23pm
Quote but if the Euro was only used in 5 countries, instead of over 20, it WOULD NOT be as strong as the USD.


And if your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle. But she doesn't.

You don't get my point. The stability of the Euro is independant of any one country. Spain could issue an idiotic economic initiative and the Euro would only dip slightly. However any negative impact on American interests threatens a precipitous drop in the dollar. The #USD is abcked by one strong economy, yes, but the 'faith' in taht economy is exactly what's being challenged in the increasing trend towards the Euro for major reserve holdings.

Yes, an economic impact on the US would impact the entire globe- however the $USD would fal disproportionate to other major currencies; their value relative to the dollar would increase- this including the Euro. The Euro is more resistant to economic fluctuations than the $USD, specifically because the $USD is hinged on a single economy, and because it is likely to be the leader of any downwards trend.

People have a greater faith in Europe than they do in America right now, or at least the balance is swinging. America is increasingly being viewed as unstable on the world stage, and any future military endeavours will have a catastrophic impact on confidence in the U.S. I'm not saying I'm morally opposed to sorting out Iran, but economically it will hurt.

Europe is less inclined towards controversial endeavours, and THAt will affirm the confidence in the Euro as a world standard currency. the U.s. right now is verging on being a house of cards- the economy is not strong enough to justify the level of debt, deficit, and spending that the government has decided it can bear. the U.s. is not fiscally conservative enough.

The dependance on the dolalr as a reserve currency at this point is strictly a matter of intellectual inertia- it's been that way as long as people can remember, and they're naturally hesitant to change something that's not obviously broke yet. However, major banks WILL buck the trend and shift to the Euro prior to the $USD becoming a risky proposition, and if governments that centrally manage their economy (e.g., China) decide to move to the Euro as a way of punishing the states, it could seriously hurt.

Review your economics, Linus. I know you love your country- there's nothing wrong with that. But economic fact transcends opinion and patriotism.
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

Yup, he actually said that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Agent_Orange33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2006 at 5:43pm
The guy that started this thread is a loser who just wanted to start a gigantic argument. well congrats now go get a life
Front man 4 life
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GThomas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2006 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by Agent_Orange33 Agent_Orange33 wrote:

The guy that started this thread is a loser who just wanted to start a gigantic argument. well congrats now go get a life


Its not an argument its a debate. So far I have read some very intellegent thoughts as well as some retarded thoughts. The posts that have been going back and forth between Clark, Brihard, Linus, OS, and Ryan, for the most part have been very well written and thought out. Its good to see that people in this forum are able to actually post something intellegent. For a while I had doubts about a lot of the people in here (I actually still do). This is the way the forum use to be back in the day; people debating and sharing intellegent ideas. I also love the fact that Brihard is Canadian (i think) and he schooling Americans on their own economy. Tomorrow when I have more time to write out a long well written post I will get into this.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Da Hui Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2006 at 7:12pm

I'll come back with a more inteligent post later. But as previously stated I have read some very insighful posts minus the orangatang guy but oh well it happens.

Brihard your Canadian?

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brihard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2006 at 9:55pm
Originally posted by Da Hui Da Hui wrote:

Brihard your Canadian?


Shh. It's a secret.
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

Yup, he actually said that.
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