Tippmann Pneumatics Inc. Homepage
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

BATF on Silencers

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
Author
RicWhic414 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar
Bitter multiple time Ion-ownage victim

Joined: 22 November 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1791
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RicWhic414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2006 at 8:36am
i think we all over looked this simple fact... what silencer r u goin to get a paintball barrel threw... paintballs are much larger then any gun they make silencers for... so think about that
Tuesday starts the weekend... YAYAYA!!!!
CHUFF CHUFF
Back to Top
Bruce A. Frank View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
KRL Reincarnated?

Joined: 27 March 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3063
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2006 at 9:37am
Originally posted by RicWhic414 RicWhic414 wrote:

i think we all over looked this simple fact... what silencer r u goin to get a paintball barrel threw... paintballs are much larger then any gun they make silencers for... so think about that
A silencer made to fit a paintball marker will work on a firearm of equal or smaller bore diameter.
Back to Top
RicWhic414 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar
Bitter multiple time Ion-ownage victim

Joined: 22 November 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1791
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RicWhic414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2006 at 1:21pm
im talkin about silencers for a firearm will not fit on any paintball gun... silencers for firearms are way to small... and i have never seen or heard of a silencer for a paintball gun that actually does anythin other then look like a silencer
Tuesday starts the weekend... YAYAYA!!!!
CHUFF CHUFF
Back to Top
Bruce A. Frank View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
KRL Reincarnated?

Joined: 27 March 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3063
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2006 at 1:30pm

Originally posted by RicWhic414 RicWhic414 wrote:

im talkin about silencers for a firearm will not fit on any paintball gun... silencers for firearms are way to small... and i have never seen or heard of a silencer for a paintball gun that actually does anythin other then look like a silencer

The theme of the discussion has been about makinging and installing your own. And because you haven't heard of silencers made for markers actually working on firearms just means you  haven't read the BATF regs referenced in these posts. BATF comments are related to the fact that they DID test paintball silencers and found they worked well enough on firearms (in fact they worked as well as those made specifically for firearms) to fall under the laws intended to regulate silencers.

Back to Top
RicWhic414 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar
Bitter multiple time Ion-ownage victim

Joined: 22 November 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1791
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RicWhic414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2006 at 2:23pm
sorry i must have miss read 
Tuesday starts the weekend... YAYAYA!!!!
CHUFF CHUFF
Back to Top
Bruce A. Frank View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
KRL Reincarnated?

Joined: 27 March 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3063
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2006 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by RicWhic414 RicWhic414 wrote:

sorry i must have miss read 
That's Okay. We are all here to share info. These forums are a plethora of facts about paintball and many related topics.
Back to Top
RicWhic414 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar
Bitter multiple time Ion-ownage victim

Joined: 22 November 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1791
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RicWhic414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2006 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by Bruce A. Frank Bruce A. Frank wrote:

Originally posted by RicWhic414 RicWhic414 wrote:

sorry i must have miss read 
That's Okay. We are all here to share info. These forums are a plethora of facts about paintball and many related topics.


thank u for usin the word plethera its my favorite word in the dictionary
Tuesday starts the weekend... YAYAYA!!!!
CHUFF CHUFF
Back to Top
Bruce A. Frank View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
KRL Reincarnated?

Joined: 27 March 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3063
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2006 at 3:48pm

Originally posted by RicWhic414 RicWhic414 wrote:

Originally posted by Bruce A. Frank Bruce A. Frank wrote:

Originally posted by RicWhic414 RicWhic414 wrote:

sorry i must have miss read 
That's Okay. We are all here to share info. These forums are a plethora of facts about paintball and many related topics.


thank u for usin the word plethera its my favorite word in the dictionary

 That's good! A few weeks ago there was a "big word alert" issued because I used stoichiometric in explanation of the C-3, but, heck a large percentage in the forums don't bother to learn the names of the parts of their markers, which would allow them to ask concise and explicit questions.  

Back to Top
darkmaster View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 09 October 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 121
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2006 at 7:15pm
A big thanks to Bruce A Frank. It is so nice to see somone who isnt constantly talking out of his butt!. wait a sec! this is not the first time i have sung the praises of Bruce, I hope you dont get the wrong idea bruce. I just like people who know what they are talking about
Dopa mi la tempesta
(After me, The storm)
Back to Top
the flanker View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 March 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 756
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the flanker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2006 at 8:10pm
ok regardless if they are leagle or not. I have made a sillencer and i have to tell you that it does barely any noise decreasing(about 25% at best) but that is because alot of the noise is coming from where the gun cocks at. Homemade silencers stink because then you cant aim down the barrel and they are hard to take off/put on and it took me about 2 hours to make(wasted time) As soon as i put it on fired a bit with it on then off i realized it was in the way more than it was usefull so i destroyed it. So if any of you were going to make one... Dont it is useless


perhaps the greatest movie ever
Back to Top
DeTrevni View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
b-YOU-ick. Was that so hard?

Joined: 19 September 2005
Location: Houston, Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 11763
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2006 at 12:13am
i have yet to see anyone mention this little doosey (of course, i didn't read all of the posts): paintball silencer would be fine. provided they didnt muffle actual firearms. which they do. this is why they are illegal. a silencer fit onto a compressed air powered projctile launcher will also muffle a cumbustion powered projectile launcher. illegal. is it necessary to have a 3 page argument about it?
Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"

Back to Top
Bruce A. Frank View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
KRL Reincarnated?

Joined: 27 March 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3063
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2006 at 12:53am

Originally posted by DeTrevni DeTrevni wrote:

i have yet to see anyone mention this little doosey (of course, i didn't read all of the posts): paintball silencer would be fine. provided they didnt muffle actual firearms. which they do. this is why they are illegal. a silencer fit onto a compressed air powered projctile launcher will also muffle a cumbustion powered projectile launcher. illegal. is it necessary to have a 3 page argument about it?

No, it shouldn't have been necessary. But, you should go back and read all the acrimonious posts in both this subject line and another, sssshhhhh quiet! , to understand why there has had to be so much repetition leading to a 3 page "discussion."

Back to Top
Arbites View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar
Soon to be Gold

Joined: 11 April 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1286
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arbites Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2006 at 3:12am

Ok, I've been gone a long time but this is one of my pet peeves.

First, the BATF is only concerned about FIREARMS SILENCERS (firearm as defined by a projectile being expelled by means of an explosion ... and agreeably the C-3 is in a mighty fine gray area). However it is their definition of firearm silencer that must be understood. The INTENTIONAL use of the device is not part of the equation. If the silencer / muffler CAN BE attached to a firearm, it is defined by the BATF as a firearms silencer. Hence their statement that many paintball silencers that have been tested are treated as firearms silencers.

However, there are paintball pilencers that are not classified as such. If you question my logic I can give one of the most clear examples now ... barrel porting. Need proof? Just compare the difference between ported and non-ported barrels. Porting is popularly thought of as a tool to increase accuracy, but it is actually a method of suppressing (aka silencing or muffling) the sound. Here's an easy, though old-school, test: compare a 68-Special with a stock barrel to one with a J&J Ceramic barrel. The very obvious difference is due to the porting (no the composition does not effect the sound enough to matter). This is how Smart Parts is legally selling their new marker with a night fighter version with marketing that states it has a silencer ... they go on to say it is barrel porting. Another potential method would be a suppressor that was permanently connected to the frame of the marker as a one piece unit which would be destroyed in removing it from the marker ... but I'm not willing to pay the cost of what that would cost, even without the still possible BATF fee if they decided that it could be removed and used on a firearm.

And as far as paintball markers being classified as firearms, they are not. However, are they classified as weapons? The federal government says they are not as it does not classify airguns this way at all. However, state, county and local laws may differ and depending on how airguns are classified (since paintball markers ARE air guns), this will effect other things. If a local law classifies airguns in the same manner as firearms than full-auto would actually be regulated (aka basically illegal) in that particular juristicion. What that same juristicion would have to say about the barrel porting and other legal sound suppression ... I have no clue.

 

And yes, I am old-school enough to remember paintball stores selling paintball silencers on the shelf and yes, I even bought one or two back in the day. Did they work? Kinda, sorta. But was it worth having a big 18" weight on the end of my SL-68?  Only if you really could guarantee that you hit on the first two shots ... after all, the large silencer always made aiming that much harder because you were looking above the barrel AND it offset the weight to the front of the marker WAY more than everyone complains about the backbottles offsetting weight to the rear.

A-5: 12" Ceramic, Egrip/WAS/Duel, HPA, MP5 sliding stock
SMG-68: 12" Ceramic
68-Specials(8): 12"&14" Ceramic, 12V Revy *** 1 Tip-n-Strip, 1 Blue, 1 FA w/Qloader
SL-68: 14" Ceramic
SMG-60 Ext. Line
Back to Top
Bruce A. Frank View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
KRL Reincarnated?

Joined: 27 March 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3063
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2006 at 11:35am

Arbites,

That was a good and concise overview of the topic of silencer legality. Porting on a paintball barrel is, just as you said, a completely legal method of reducing report. Specifically because it is a non-detachable or independent part and thus cannot be used on or transfered to a firearm.

Daveb333 has been correct in the respect that paintball markers are not classified as firearms. So therefore there can be manufacturing designs, micro porting, that intensionally reduces the report of a paintball marker.

These types of design features, if incorporated into a firearm  intending to significantly reduce the firearm report, would be illegal exactly because it is a firearm.

The removable, transportable and transferable silencer devise is the point of BATF regulations.

Back to Top
demigod View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 13 April 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote demigod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 April 2006 at 2:49am
The last two posts have it pretty much right as far as I have able to determine.  It has to be nonremoveable and built into the paintball marker.  Anything other than that is a violation of the laws relating to Class III weapons.  By the way, just to stir the pot again, it's now the BATFE.  Go to their website and read all the items regarding this for more clarification.  This topic has been beaten to death on other forums around the country.
Back to Top
Bruce A. Frank View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
KRL Reincarnated?

Joined: 27 March 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3063
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 April 2006 at 11:17am

Originally posted by demigod demigod wrote:

The last two posts have it pretty much right as far as I have able to determine.  It has to be nonremoveable and built into the paintball marker.  Anything other than that is a violation of the laws relating to Class III weapons.  By the way, just to stir the pot again, it's now the BATFE.  Go to their website and read all the items regarding this for more clarification.  This topic has been beaten to death on other forums around the country.

Thank you for the heads up. I was un aware that the BATF had been split into two entities with one group going to Justice and the other staying with Treasury.

The BATF had been in charge of "explosive and destructive devises" for quite a long time. The move seems logical (I know, I know...completely the wrong word to use in reference to a governmental agency). I suspect that everyone will still refer to the agency in-charge of firearms as either the BATF or ATF, as they have forever.

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.03

This page was generated in 0.062 seconds.