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Super R/T + QEV Tutorial

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote USNCV63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2007 at 9:55am

I used grease that i got from Napa to use on the Vortex Mod, i checked it out, compared it to shocker lube, and it was ok to use the kind that i got.  I tried turning down the velocity and it didn't really help.  I'm out of CO2 now so i have to wait until tomorrow when i can get some more to test things out.  I've also put the 1/16 hose lines and fittings back on.  I think that the RT is broken in, i've shot atleast 1000 shots with the super response trigger alone.  I also need to get new o-rings for the QEV, i had it that tight that the o-rings are shot now, they were cheap anyway.

I also have a leak in the tube that goes from the trigger assembly to the ex-chamber.  It's been there for a while, sometimes i can get it to stop but now it's just aggrivating so i'm going to get a replacement line for that too.



Edited by USNCV63 - 04 February 2007 at 10:05am
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16" ThunderPig w/shroud
Vortex Mod w/ lightening rod
Expansion Chamber
Oversized Hopper
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MaddMann Spring Set
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phil_stl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2007 at 2:40pm
Shocker Lube is basically just Dow 33.  Napa I don't know what it is.  I've searched and all I can find is called "Napa Oil and Grease".

Make sure you didn't actually use oil or "Oil and Grease" on the Vortex or lightening rod, it strongly recommends against that it must be grease, the best is normally Dow 33 or 35 I think.

Get those new o-rings.

Fix your leak in braided hose (metal wire) going from your ASA to your ex-chamber.  Is that were your leak is coming from?  Do you have a braided hose or is it the macro line hose?

Do you have a Clippard MEV-2 or a QEV (like a Palmers QEV)?
 
Actually it would be better if you showed me a few pictures of what you have and how it's set up that might help. 

But first get those things fixed and worked out and then we can check a few more things off of this list if it still doesn't work afterwards.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote USNCV63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2007 at 3:39pm

I'll take some pictures tonight if i can, i don't have my digital camera right now but i should have it by tomorrow.

The Napa grease i got says Sil-Glyde on the front, non-freezing, non-gumming, weatherproof, i think it should be ok to use.  The only place i used oil was on the lightening rod, the end of it that does not connect to the rachet, but on the end with the o-ring, this is what the directions said. 

I picked up some o-rings from Lowe's today just to try out.  Not so sure what they are made out of but they seem to fit on very well and are thicker.  Also picked up some hose line the will go from the T-barb to the trigger, not sure how else to describe that end.  This seems to also fit very well.  The hose that was there before was just a little too short.

The leak i had was in a macro line, i'll get that fixed tomorrow. 

I have the Clippard QEV, from what i've read either should work fine. 

I did put the 1/16 hose line and fittings on before i ran out of CO2 and the response seemed to be working ok, not fast but it was firing with out stopping like it would normally.

One thing i'm not understanding, are you still having the same problems i am with the super rt?  Freezing up and then not working?  It sounds like you got yours fixed but then in another post you made it sound like you still experience this problem.

I'll do my best to get detailed pics on here by tomorrow.  I've PM'd Raven but haven't heard back from him, but it was only yesterday that i PM'd him.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phil_stl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2007 at 7:59pm
Originally posted by USNCV63 USNCV63 wrote:

I'll take some pictures tonight if i can, i don't have my digital camera right now but i should have it by tomorrow.

Great!

The Napa grease i got says Sil-Glyde on the front, non-freezing, non-gumming, weatherproof, i think it should be ok to use.  The only place i used oil was on the lightening rod, the end of it that does not connect to the rachet, but on the end with the o-ring, this is what the directions said.

Yup that all sounds perfectly done.

I picked up some o-rings from Lowe's today just to try out.  Not so sure what they are made out of but they seem to fit on very well and are thicker.  Also picked up some hose line the will go from the T-barb to the trigger, not sure how else to describe that end. 

(the ROF/Rate of Fire fitting) or you could call in the (rear fitting).

This seems to also fit very well.  The hose that was there before was just a little too short.

Great!

The leak i had was in a macro line, i'll get that fixed tomorrow.

Yes this is an important step.  Report back once fixed and tested.

I have the Clippard QEV, from what i've read either should work fine.

(Clippard makes MEV, Palmers makes the QEV) not a big difference though.  The Palmers QEV might be a little faster (let more air out) but I've heard of people that had problems with them.

I did put the 1/16 hose line and fittings on before i ran out of CO2 and the response seemed to be working ok, not fast but it was firing with out stopping like it would normally.

Really?!?  Then that should show that your Vortex and your Lightening rod, and the RT piston inside the gun aren't the cause of the problem.  This should narrow it down to the wider RT hoses itself or the QEV (or maybe your macro line just wasn't acting up when you had the 1/16 hoses on and did during the wider hoses. So we won't count that out just yet). 

How well did you test it with the 1/16 hoses.  Cause we don't want to jump to conclusions that something isn't the problem when it could be.  100 shots at least with those smaller hoses maybe?

One thing i'm not understanding, are you still having the same problems i am with the super rt?  Freezing up and then not working?  It sounds like you got yours fixed but then in another post you made it sound like you still experience this problem.

No, mine is fixed.

I'll do my best to get detailed pics on here by tomorrow.  I've PM'd Raven but haven't heard back from him, but it was only yesterday that i PM'd him. 

K well I'm doing my best in the meanwhile... even responding during the superbowl! Plus I don't know if get the PM anytime soon anyway.



Edited by phil_stl - 04 February 2007 at 8:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Advantage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2007 at 4:31pm

Hi all...I just ordered the super R/T fittings/hoses and a palmer's QEV. While I've been waiting for the parts I've been reading many of the past threads concerning the super r/t mod, QEVs, and r/t troubles.

UNSCV63   Is your cyclone working? Is it possible to crank the MEV down too far in where it would interfere with the cyclone? I mention this because Palmer's warns against doing that for their QEV and you mentioned you cranked it down good. I'm not sure if that would have an effect on the R/T or not. Good Luck. I hope my mod goes a little more smoothly. 

Phil_stl   While this board has plenty of questions about troubles with the super r/t mod, I haven't read much feedback on the performance. Is it a night and day difference between super and stock r/t? Is my stock cyclone going to throw fireballs out of it and explode before I do the Vortex mod? Any parts that have been subject to fail? Thanks in advance. 

 

A5 with somewhat a Super Response trigger,QEV, x chamber, Flatline, JJ ceramic, SP progressive...Powered by old skool CO2
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Originally posted by Advantage Advantage wrote:

Hi all...I just ordered the super R/T fittings/hoses and a palmer's QEV. While I've been waiting for the parts I've been reading many of the past threads concerning the super r/t mod, QEVs, and r/t troubles.

UNSCV63   Is your cyclone working? Is it possible to crank the MEV down too far in where it would interfere with the cyclone? I mention this because Palmer's warns against doing that for their QEV and you mentioned you cranked it down good. I'm not sure if that would have an effect on the R/T or not. Good Luck. I hope my mod goes a little more smoothly. 

Not bad advice, but he also needed to make sure the o-rings were thight enough they weren't letting any air out.  But ya too far, well I don't know, maybe... we will get him to back off the MEV.  (But I think with the newer/bigger o-rings he had to anyway). But good advice.

Phil_stl   While this board has plenty of questions about troubles with the super r/t mod, I haven't read much feedback on the performance. Is it a night and day difference between super and stock r/t? Is my stock cyclone going to throw fireballs out of it and explode before I do the Vortex mod? Any parts that have been subject to fail? Thanks in advance. 

The QEV normally does more than the wider hoses from what I've been told but not by much.  I'd say the QEV will give you an extra 3-4 or so bps. The wider hoses (Super R/T mod) might give you 2-3 bps.

So if the max is supposed to be 15 on the stock RT (although some people have hit 17 on the stock RT), the max should be around 23-24 bps with Super RT and QEV.  With Vortex and Lightening Rod, I'd bet you could add a couple more bps to that number.

The main thing is it will make it a lot easier to sweetspot but also to sweetspot at a higher ROF than usual.



Edited by phil_stl - 05 February 2007 at 5:12pm
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Phil_stl    I do actually have another question to you and anyone else that tried this mod. I have a theory that the increased space in the hoses and fittings might be able to help in the r/t's ability to function in colder temps. I played last week in 31 degrees F and found my response was not working due to freeze up. Chances are the increased size won't make too much of a difference if any. I'll have to see. Anyone playing in colder temps finding that this mod helps?

Edit: oh I know there will be a whole lot of advice in switching to air but I have plenty of access to CO2 (while air is more of a pain in the butt) and I'm willing to deal with it's shortcomings just want to do it the best I can.   



Edited by Advantage - 05 February 2007 at 7:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phil_stl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2007 at 8:37pm
MY DARN INTERNET!! I had written you an in depth response. I tried to send and I disconnected.  So I'm re-writing.

Originally posted by Advantage Advantage wrote:

Phil_stl    I do actually have another question to you and anyone else that tried this mod. I have a theory that the increased space in the hoses and fittings might be able to help in the r/t's ability to function in colder temps. I played last week in 31 degrees F and found my response was not working due to freeze up. Chances are the increased size won't make too much of a difference if any. I'll have to see. Anyone playing in colder temps finding that this mod helps?

Definitely not!  CO2 is what?  Cold right!!?  Now lets say you put a tank cover on your CO2 tank to keep it warm... what do you think is honestly colder, the cold wind outside or the Freezing cold liquid CO2 inside your CO2 tank?  YUP thats right the CO2 by a long shot.  So let's say you want to put a cover on the CO2 tank to keep the tank warm... would that help?  Heck no, you would just help keep the coldness inside the tank not keep it warm... GET IT?  (sure this warmness vs. coldeness with the tank cover can be argued but the fact is I'm trying to teach you about CO2 so you understand the next thing I tell you)...

K so now that you have that, just think about what the Super RT does... it is supposed to give you a few more bps... how?  Well the hoses are wider right?... what does this mean?  That more COLD CO2 will be traveling at the same time through those hoses.  Do you think having more COLD CO2 is going to help stop your problem... Theoretically the very opposite will happen.

Edit: oh I know there will be a whole lot of advice in switching to air but I have plenty of access to CO2 (while air is more of a pain in the butt) and I'm willing to deal with it's shortcomings just want to do it the best I can.  

So what is the solution other than HPA... get a Palmers Regulator! Some people buy one and never get an HPA tank. So it's the best thing for consistency and getting the most out of your marker in that sense on the market IMO. End of story.  If you can't afford one then get an Expansion Chamber and an anti siphon or remote coil.

By the way adding an anti siphon or remote coil with a Palmer's Regulator will be even more optimal.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote USNCV63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2007 at 9:33pm

Phil

Spent sometime at the paintball shop today working on the gun.  Replaced the macro line and one of it's fittings that seemed to be leaking, still not perfect but i can get it to stop leaking when i need to. 

We were testing it with the 1/16 lines and it seemed slow.  Then started ripping (going into very fast bursts at sudden times).  So he thought it was my rear bolt causing that due to wear.  We checked it and it seemed fine.  Then he replaced the drive spring with a Madd Mann drive spring and WOW what a difference.  Very fast now and the sweet spot seems very easy to find and hold. 

We replaced the hose lines with the 1/8 lines and then the QEV broke.  Remember when i had it cranked down before, well i must have over done it and gave it a hair line fracture on the threads and it broke off right in the feeder cylinder.  So now that is shot.  We replaced it with the regular 1/8th fitting and still the same result, only able to get 2-3 shot bursts no matter where you dialed it in.  So we went with the stock 1/16 hoses and fittings.  Everything seems to be working fine, better even i would say with the new spring.  As far as the QEV, i don't think i will be replacing it.  Everything seems to be working fine now so i'll probably keep it the way it is.  Or atleast until i hear some break through news to make this mod work on my gun.  Which i'm trying to get in touch with some local paintball shop owners and ask if they have dealt with this yet.  So i think i have things narrowed down to the upgrade itself, it's just not working for me.  Everything works with out it but once i put in on there goes my rt.  Just can't get it.

A local Clippard representative called me today, ironic.  I told him what i was attempting to do with my gun and he explained to me in terms that i can't repeat cause it was over my head why this wouldn't work with this gun.  Something about pressure relay and the gun wouldn't function properly, just not designed for it.

Took some pics of my gun but the battery went dead, i'll get them up tomorrow.  Is there anything on the gun you specifically want to see?  I took pics of the lines and everything.

One nice thing is that the guy at the paintball shop is adding HPA to his shop.  Now just buying the bottles.  I'm still not set on HPA, but if i do make that switch i may buy another QEV and give this a try again.

Lastly, hope you didn't miss too much of the superbowl, i know i didn't.  thanks man

Advantage

My cylone has been working the whole time, no problems there.  I don't think it was affected when i cranked down on the QEV.   Lesson be learned, don't crank down on yours too hard like i did mine, i should have been more careful knowing it was brass.  Keep in mind it is difficult to get the QEV to line up with the T barb and still be tight. 

 



Edited by USNCV63 - 05 February 2007 at 9:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phil_stl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2007 at 11:15am
Originally posted by USNCV63 USNCV63 wrote:

Phil

Spent sometime at the paintball shop today working on the gun.  Replaced the macro line and one of it's fittings that seemed to be leaking, still not perfect but i can get it to stop leaking when i need to. 

I think using braided hose can handle CO2 much better than macro line.  But if you can get it to stop leaking then that's great.

We were testing it with the 1/16 lines and it seemed slow.  Then started ripping (going into very fast bursts at sudden times).  So he thought it was my rear bolt causing that due to wear.  We checked it and it seemed fine.  Then he replaced the drive spring with a Madd Mann drive spring and WOW what a difference.  Very fast now and the sweet spot seems very easy to find and hold. 

Ya what spring do you have in,  I have the maddmann spring kit too I'm wondering if I should use the green one (softer) or the red one (harder).

We replaced the hose lines with the 1/8 lines and then the QEV broke.  Remember when i had it cranked down before, well i must have over done it and gave it a hair line fracture on the threads and it broke off right in the feeder cylinder.  So now that is shot.  We replaced it with the regular 1/8th fitting and still the same result, only able to get 2-3 shot bursts no matter where you dialed it in.  So we went with the stock 1/16 hoses and fittings.  Everything seems to be working fine, better even i would say with the new spring.  As far as the QEV, i don't think i will be replacing it.  Everything seems to be working fine now so i'll probably keep it the way it is.  Or atleast until i hear some break through news to make this mod work on my gun.  Which i'm trying to get in touch with some local paintball shop owners and ask if they have dealt with this yet.  So i think i have things narrowed down to the upgrade itself, it's just not working for me.  Everything works with out it but once i put in on there goes my rt.  Just can't get it.

Well maybe it's an issue with pressure.  Because with wider hoses there can tend to be less pressure and some people have had it when their cyclone feed needs more pressure to work. 

A local Clippard representative called me today, ironic.  I told him what i was attempting to do with my gun and he explained to me in terms that i can't repeat cause it was over my head why this wouldn't work with this gun.  Something about pressure relay and the gun wouldn't function properly, just not designed for it.

It could be, my 98 Custom is doing great though..?!!

Took some pics of my gun but the battery went dead, i'll get them up tomorrow.  Is there anything on the gun you specifically want to see?  I took pics of the lines and everything.

Ya all I wanted to see were the lines.

One nice thing is that the guy at the paintball shop is adding HPA to his shop.  Now just buying the bottles.  I'm still not set on HPA, but if i do make that switch i may buy another QEV and give this a try again.

Okay good deal.

Lastly, hope you didn't miss too much of the superbowl, i know i didn't.  thanks man

Well I only missed one touchdown my team got while I was helping ya.  But I watched most of the first and second half.  Then I had a waterpolo game to go to so I sadly missed the end. oohh well, my team won so I'm happy.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Advantage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2007 at 4:26pm

phil_stl wrote:

"Definitely not!  CO2 is what?  Cold right!!?  Now lets say you put a tank cover on your CO2 tank to keep it warm... what do you think is honestly colder, the cold wind outside or the Freezing cold liquid CO2 inside your CO2 tank?  YUP thats right the CO2 by a long shot.  So let's say you want to put a cover on the CO2 tank to keep the tank warm... would that help?  Heck no, you would just help keep the coldness inside the tank not keep it warm... GET IT?  (sure this warmness vs. coldeness with the tank cover can be argued but the fact is I'm trying to teach you about CO2 so you understand the next thing I tell you)...

K so now that you have that, just think about what the Super RT does... it is supposed to give you a few more bps... how?  Well the hoses are wider right?... what does this mean?  That more COLD CO2 will be traveling at the same time through those hoses.  Do you think having more COLD CO2 is going to help stop your problem... Theoretically the very opposite will happen."

 

My thinking is that in colder temps liquid CO2 would enter the gun and r/t fittings due to the expansion chambers inability to allow enough time to convert it to gas form. With the smaller hoses/fittings, blockage due to the liquid would happen before it would happen with a diameter twice as big. Then again yes it could allow more liquid to enter the trigger system. I'll have to see for myself. Even if the bps was at a reduced rate it would be an improvement.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Advantage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 5:35pm

I just received the r/t upgrade kit from tippmannparts.com and I've got a few issues with it.

 First off, the hose going from the Flow Control Valve to the T-banjo is too short. It is 2 3/4 inches long. It is a kit made for a 98 so maybe their gap is shorter. According to the site it works for the A5.

 Second, the hose from the T banjo to the future QEV has a smaller inside diameter than the other one yet larger than the 1/16". Also it comes with "orafice tube" to insert within that tube that would shrink that space to a 1/16" diameter.

Third, On the Flow Control Valve while the input where the hose is attached is 1/8", The output that goes into the grip is the same as the original fitting (1/16"). On the T banjo the input is 1/8" and on the supplied banjo fitting for the cyclone (to be replaced with the QEV) it is 1/8".

Any fittings that need to be replaced in my setup? Am I correct that I need 1/8" from the T banjo to the QEV? Thanks in advance.      

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote USNCV63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 6:42pm

Advantage

I had some of the same problems, i went to Lowe's and got hose line there that worked.  12 cents for a foot.  I'd bet almost any place like a Lowe's or Home Depot would carry that size hose, or a place that sells fish tanks possibly. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Advantage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 7:20pm

Thanks USNCV63,

After looking at it more, the hose from the T banjo to the fitting in the cyclone is actually the 1/8" id hose. So the hose from the T banjo to the Flow control valve is actually larger than 1/8". Are you using the kit from Tippmannparts.com?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote USNCV63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 3:55pm
I didn't get my kit from there, i wanted it right away so i bought it from the local pb dealer here.  But i think it's the same kit you got, made for a 98 to add a response trigger.  Let me know how you make out, i'm curious if you can get your's to work like i couldn't
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Advantage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 7:57pm

USNCV63,

I got my QEV today and installed everything. I stopped at Home Depot and picked up tubing that I found in the plumbing dept. It is larger than 1/8" (.170) and as I found out later not meant to handle much pressure. I put it on, to test out, and I have no leaks. I'm going to see if I can find tubing at a paintball shop tommorow. Using the left over CO2 in my tanks I dry fired and it seems everything is working great. Keep in mind no balls fired yet...but cyclone is working, QEV is venting, and from the little left over CO2 I had I was able to get a r/t rate faster than what I had before (for a few quick bursts). I need more CO2 to see if it was worth it though.

I have no idea if this would make a difference or not but on your T bango is the hole inside the valve lined up with both the hose to the MEV and the hose to the flow adjuster valve?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote USNCV63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 February 2007 at 3:39pm

So that tubing that i suggested didn't work?  I think was working for me, i seemed to have a good fit.  I would almost be willing to bet that the hole inside the T-bango would make a difference.  I thought of that earlier but never entertained the the thought then.  I may have to look.  I don't have a QEV anymore but possibly it will still be faster if i try everything again.  Which QEV did you get?  Let us know how it works out then. 

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16" ThunderPig w/shroud
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MaddMann Spring Set
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Advantage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 February 2007 at 9:54am

USNCV63,

Well it turns out the few quick bursts I got when I first hooked it up gave me some false hope. Three full 20 oz CO2 tanks later I have only been able to get short bursts that are slower than the 1/16" fittings. The sweet spot is hard to hold. I went to the paintball shop a couple days ago and all they had was 1/8" rigid tubing. I tried to install that but I wasn't able to get it on the barbs. Yesterday I went to Lowes and I think I found the tubing you suggested (12 cents a foot). It is the same stuff I bought at Home Depot (.170 inside diameter) I played yesterday in 21 degrees with windchill of -10 degrees. I wasn't as concerned with the r/t fittings due to the fact that my gloves barely fit in the trigger guard. I will mess around with the tubes that I have but it looks like I'm going to have to order 1/8" tubing over the internet. Good luck. Oh yeah, Palmers QEV is what I have



Edited by Advantage - 11 February 2007 at 9:57am
A5 with somewhat a Super Response trigger,QEV, x chamber, Flatline, JJ ceramic, SP progressive...Powered by old skool CO2
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote USNCV63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 February 2007 at 2:44pm
Sounds like you're having the same luck i had.  I've taken mine off and i'm working on a "q-tip" mod right now, i think i have it about right.  Might do another mod.  Well if you get it working let us know, i'll be interested in what you find. 
A-5
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Expansion Chamber
Oversized Hopper
3 point sling
MaddMann Spring Set
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Advantage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 February 2007 at 4:32pm

After I wrote my last post I tuned the same setup I had and was able to get an ungodly rate of fire for a second. I would have to pull the trigger something like 30 times before I could get the response to kick in again. It basically worked when it wanted to but when it did kick in it was insanely fast for a second.

This is using the .170" (I got at Home Depot) between T banjo and flow adjuster, and using the actual 1/8" tubing from Palmers between T banjo and the QEV. I've ruled out the adjustable feature on the QEV as a problem through trying all the different adjustments.

So later I was messing with the Protein Skimmer on our fish tank. I was adding air to the skimmer using the left over air tubing that we had from the aquariums air system. Somehow I forgot to check to see if this line would work even though you mentioned it in a past post. I compared it to the line I got at Home Depot and it was smaller in diameter but a little larger than the outside diameter of the original R/T lines. By the way, I've been using the outside diameter of the original lines as a key to tell if the inside diameter of any other line is 1/8".  The original Tippmann r/t lines fit snug into the Palmers line but in the aquarium lines it had a small gap. (I'm not sure if any of this makes sense to you)

So I put the aquarium line on and I was able to get the r/t to kick in like i had with the 1/16" setup. The "sweet spot" was easy to hit yet I wasn't able to tune in that insane rate of fire before I ran out of CO2. I will experiment more when I get my tanks filled again. So if you are using that .170" tubing it probably is too big.    



Edited by Advantage - 11 February 2007 at 4:54pm
A5 with somewhat a Super Response trigger,QEV, x chamber, Flatline, JJ ceramic, SP progressive...Powered by old skool CO2
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