Immigrantion Issue

Very valid points, DB. You're right that the US has no cultural identity. I think part of that in recent times comes from the political correctness movement. Having everyone hold on to their little slice of culture from 200 years ago is cute, but it causes problems with people being able to identify themselves as AMERICANS. They become German-Americans, Polish-Americans, African-Americans, Chinese-Americans, and so on. As such, the nation self-divides into little factions all over the place.

As far as my notions on halting immigration, it's not realistic to think that it can be stopped forever. Even I don't think that's a good idea... one of the cornerstones of the nation is indeed the melting pot concept. I think the pot is running over right now, though. I'd like to see what a 12-month moratorium on immigrations would do.

I seem to have lost my train of thought. There will probably be more later, as my head catches up with my typing.

No no. We do have a cultureal identity. Its somewhere, its just "lost in the garage" so to speak. We are forgeting things about what our country is about LEFT AND RIGHT. And its starting to worry me.

We really are becoming a culture that praises mediocrity, examples of this are everywhere, from teachers not being able to post the names and grades in class for the student to look up, because a failing grade next to the name depresses the student, instead they use a number, teachers not being able to use red... Little leages not keeping score.. And to the crown example. Reality TV, the variable fast food cookie cutter empty head entertainment of today.

Really, i think we could look to our friends to the north(theirs more to them than hockey and really good beer) for some help on a lot of things. Most importantly their ideas on health care... *cough cough*

Edited by DBibeau855 - 28 March 2006 at 5:16pm

I'm pretty torn on this. On one hand, the effects of free labor on our free market is pretty heavy. I think there should be legislation to limit, both, hiring illegals and outsourcing to other nations. I don't care if it sounds socialist, it only makes since. Also, I think the issue of securing our boarders, let alone our ports, shouldn't even be an issue. It obviously needs to be done quickly and effectively, if for nothing else than the obvious "homeland security" reasons. Why does no one say "national defense" anymore? Anyway, on the other hand, I do feel for those people and I think we absolutely need to be easy on those that are here now(I ALMOST agree with Bush). We are a nation of immigrants and my great grandfather was just another damn Mic stealing everyone's job 80 years ago. Some say that it was different then because they were all legal, but they didn't have to jump through the hoops that people do now days to legally immigrate. I know an English lady who's daughter has been trying to come here for the last four years. I think they need to majorly overhaul the system as far as all that goes and figure out how to at least let the current residents become citizens. They could also help Mexico out a bit so they wouldn't have to come here for jobs, even though the mexican government doesn't deserve any help from us....

.Ryan wrote: I'm pretty torn on this. On one hand, the effects of free labor on our free market is pretty heavy. I think there should be legislation to limit, both, hiring illegals and outsourcing to other nations. I don't care if it sounds socialist, it only makes since.

At the risk of another mini-hijack, it doesn't "only make sense".  Limits on outsourcing are not only useless, but actually counterproductive - they make the problem worse.  The world has known this since Adam Smith wrote The Wealth of Nations.

From an economic perspective, tariffs and import/export restrictions (whether for goods or services) almost always have the opposite effect of what is intended.  There may be political benefits, but there are always tremendous economic costs.

Simpler put:  Trying to limit or prohibit outsourcing by law will ACCELLERATE outsourcing, and leave the US an impoverished nation while the rest of the world laughs.

/hijack.

Bolt3 wrote: Oh boohoo.<!-- var SymRealOnLoad; var SymReal; Sym() { window.open = SymWinOpen; if(SymReal != null)      SymReal(); } SymOnLoad() { if(SymRealOnLoad != null)      SymRealOnLoad(); window.open = SymRealWinOpen; SymReal = window.; window. = Sym; } SymRealOnLoad = window.onload; window.onload = SymOnLoad; //-->

Owned.

Hard.

By Rambino.

I love Rambs, and i love Clark too lol.

Its pretty hard to debate with him and not learn something.

Let everyone that wants to come to the United States do so. I dont care what status they are. If terrorists manage to sneak in so be it but why should billions of people suffer because there are a few terrorists.

My safety from terrorists is not as important as the improved life of millions crossing the border to work.

Also I dont see a problem with spending tax dollars on health care to people that need it, nor do I cry when a job goes to someone other than me.


People need to stop being so self centered and start caring about people other than themselves and people that are similar to them.

Edited by Hades - 28 March 2006 at 6:29pm

First off, Bolt obviously doesn't care and seems to want to be guested. I think after that many times and because of his continued belligerance, he's definatly pushing IP ban territory.

I guess I actually agree with Bush here on this. We need these immigrants, but there has to better protection against criminals coming over the borders, and protection for the immigrants themselves.

Border security and the illegal immigration problem are seperate issues, there's a good reason so many of them want to come here, and good reasons to keep some people out. I'm all for a temporary work visa. We really need to overhaul INS so we can keep track of people we let in legally and get people who want them their greencards faster. The problem is that as it stands, we couldn't keep track of these people.

Illegal immigrants are often exploited at disgusting levels, and being able to keep track of them would help us protect them from things such as getting the crap beat out of them or being chained to machines all day. Plus, getting them legallized would have an added benifit, we could tax them.

I've worked with quite a few illegal immigrants at low-wage jobs. Most of them picked up english quickly enough, and worked harder than the rest of us native-born, usually overweight teenagers. They obviously wanted to be here bad enough to risk it. Most of them ended up getting better raises than we did. However, they al got busted because one of them got pulled over driving up here. No driver's license, insurance ect. That's a problem. these people are here and are not going away, we might as well make it not cost as much when they get in a car accident. Let the insurance companies pay for it.

The Republican party as a whole is totally shooting itself in the foot here. Hispanics are a strong voting bases for them, since they are usually for less restriction on business. These guys want to work hard for their money and have the prospect of the american dream, getting filthy rich. Illegals are also a huge untapped market, we should be selling them used cars and insurance, and taxing everything we can. Imagine, the republicans screwing themselves because they disagree with Bush. I swear that he's talking about this sort of stuff so the next republican candidate can distance himself from the administration, like gore in 2000.

Over population.

And we dont have the ability to do it. We would have rampent homelessnes. Quality of life would go down.

We would be crowded like Japan.

Hades wrote: My safety from terrorists is not as important as the improved life of millions crossing the border to work. Also I dont see a problem with spending tax dollars on health care to people that need it, nor do I cry when a job goes to someone other than me.

How dare you be so self-less.  It's un-American.

DBib wrote: Over population.

Not really - we're not talking MORE people, just located differently.