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Immigrantion Issue

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Pump Scout View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pump Scout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 5:09pm
Very valid points, DB. You're right that the US has no cultural identity. I think part of that in recent times comes from the political correctness movement. Having everyone hold on to their little slice of culture from 200 years ago is cute, but it causes problems with people being able to identify themselves as AMERICANS. They become German-Americans, Polish-Americans, African-Americans, Chinese-Americans, and so on. As such, the nation self-divides into little factions all over the place.

As far as my notions on halting immigration, it's not realistic to think that it can be stopped forever. Even I don't think that's a good idea... one of the cornerstones of the nation is indeed the melting pot concept. I think the pot is running over right now, though. I'd like to see what a 12-month moratorium on immigrations would do.

I seem to have lost my train of thought. There will probably be more later, as my head catches up with my typing.
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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 5:13pm

Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

Well then Clark, we need to work on that. But that doesnt make it ok to just cheat the system. Obviously something needs to be done. But we cant just open the flood gates.

I agree completely.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 5:15pm
No no. We do have a cultureal identity. Its somewhere, its just "lost in the garage" so to speak. We are forgeting things about what our country is about LEFT AND RIGHT. And its starting to worry me.

We really are becoming a culture that praises mediocrity, examples of this are everywhere, from teachers not being able to post the names and grades in class for the student to look up, because a failing grade next to the name depresses the student, instead they use a number, teachers not being able to use red... Little leages not keeping score.. And to the crown example. Reality TV, the variable fast food cookie cutter empty head entertainment of today.

Really, i think we could look to our friends to the north(theirs more to them than hockey and really good beer) for some help on a lot of things. Most importantly their ideas on health care... *cough cough*

Edited by DBibeau855 - 28 March 2006 at 5:16pm
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Bolt3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bolt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 5:24pm
I stand with my statement of, your a moron, PumpScout.

One a side note: I had just said you were a moron for thinking about that idea because it obviously didn't take much thought to come up with the  something that you did.


Edited by Bolt3 - 28 March 2006 at 5:29pm
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.Ryan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 5:32pm
I'm pretty torn on this. On one hand, the effects of free labor on our free market is pretty heavy. I think there should be legislation to limit, both, hiring illegals and outsourcing to other nations. I don't care if it sounds socialist, it only makes since. Also, I think the issue of securing our boarders, let alone our ports, shouldn't even be an issue. It obviously needs to be done quickly and effectively, if for nothing else than the obvious "homeland security" reasons. Why does no one say "national defense" anymore? Anyway, on the other hand, I do feel for those people and I think we absolutely need to be easy on those that are here now(I ALMOST agree with Bush). We are a nation of immigrants and my great grandfather was just another damn Mic stealing everyone's job 80 years ago. Some say that it was different then because they were all legal, but they didn't have to jump through the hoops that people do now days to legally immigrate. I know an English lady who's daughter has been trying to come here for the last four years. I think they need to majorly overhaul the system as far as all that goes and figure out how to at least let the current residents become citizens. They could also help Mexico out a bit so they wouldn't have to come here for jobs, even though the mexican government doesn't deserve any help from us....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rambino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 5:37pm

Originally posted by Bolt3 Bolt3 wrote:

I stand with my statement of, your a moron, PumpScout.

One a side note: I had just said you were a moron for thinking about that idea because it obviously didn't take much thought to come up with the  something that you did.

I had my finger poised on the guesting button, but decided to go with the written warning instead.

I understand a heated debate as much as the next guy, but there is a fine line between attacking a viewpoint and attacking a person.  You crossed that line and then reaffirmed your crossing.

Personal attacks and flaming ARE NOT ALLOWED.  It's a simple rule, really:  play nice.

Last warning, or it's on to Bolt4.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rambino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 5:41pm

Originally posted by .Ryan .Ryan wrote:

I'm pretty torn on this. On one hand, the effects of free labor on our free market is pretty heavy. I think there should be legislation to limit, both, hiring illegals and outsourcing to other nations. I don't care if it sounds socialist, it only makes since. 

At the risk of another mini-hijack, it doesn't "only make sense".  Limits on outsourcing are not only useless, but actually counterproductive - they make the problem worse.  The world has known this since Adam Smith wrote The Wealth of Nations.

From an economic perspective, tariffs and import/export restrictions (whether for goods or services) almost always have the opposite effect of what is intended.  There may be political benefits, but there are always tremendous economic costs.

Simpler put:  Trying to limit or prohibit outsourcing by law will ACCELLERATE outsourcing, and leave the US an impoverished nation while the rest of the world laughs.

/hijack.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bolt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 5:51pm
Oh boohoo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by Bolt3 Bolt3 wrote:

Oh boohoo.<!--
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}

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{
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     SymRealOnLoad();
window.open = SymRealWinOpen;
SymReal = window.;
window. = Sym;
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Owned.

Hard.

By Rambino.
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Bolt3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bolt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 5:59pm
Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

Originally posted by Bolt3 Bolt3 wrote:

Oh boohoo.


Owned.

Hard.

By Rambino.


Yeah ... ouch?


 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 6:00pm
I love Rambs, and i love Clark too lol.

Its pretty hard to debate with him and not learn something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bolt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 6:03pm
Yeah.

Pump Scout made a moronic statement. That's all. Thus, making him a moron.
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Hades View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 6:26pm
Let everyone that wants to come to the United States do so. I dont care what status they are. If terrorists manage to sneak in so be it but why should billions of people suffer because there are a few terrorists.

My safety from terrorists is not as important as the improved life of millions crossing the border to work.

Also I dont see a problem with spending tax dollars on health care to people that need it, nor do I cry when a job goes to someone other than me.


People need to stop being so self centered and start caring about people other than themselves and people that are similar to them.

Edited by Hades - 28 March 2006 at 6:29pm
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DBibeau855 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 6:28pm
Why should be play house party to everyone and their mother?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 6:29pm

First off, Bolt obviously doesn't care and seems to want to be guested. I think after that many times and because of his continued belligerance, he's definatly pushing IP ban territory.

I guess I actually agree with Bush here on this. We need these immigrants, but there has to better protection against criminals coming over the borders, and protection for the immigrants themselves.

Border security and the illegal immigration problem are seperate issues, there's a good reason so many of them want to come here, and good reasons to keep some people out. I'm all for a temporary work visa. We really need to overhaul INS so we can keep track of people we let in legally and get people who want them their greencards faster. The problem is that as it stands, we couldn't keep track of these people.

Illegal immigrants are often exploited at disgusting levels, and being able to keep track of them would help us protect them from things such as getting the crap beat out of them or being chained to machines all day. Plus, getting them legallized would have an added benifit, we could tax them.

I've worked with quite a few illegal immigrants at low-wage jobs. Most of them picked up english quickly enough, and worked harder than the rest of us native-born, usually overweight teenagers. They obviously wanted to be here bad enough to risk it. Most of them ended up getting better raises than we did. However, they al got busted because one of them got pulled over driving up here. No driver's license, insurance ect. That's a problem. these people are here and are not going away, we might as well make it not cost as much when they get in a car accident. Let the insurance companies pay for it.

The Republican party as a whole is totally shooting itself in the foot here. Hispanics are a strong voting bases for them, since they are usually for less restriction on business. These guys want to work hard for their money and have the prospect of the american dream, getting filthy rich. Illegals are also a huge untapped market, we should be selling them used cars and insurance, and taxing everything we can. Imagine, the republicans screwing themselves because they disagree with Bush. I swear that he's talking about this sort of stuff so the next republican candidate can distance himself from the administration, like gore in 2000.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 6:30pm
Why shouldnt we?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 6:34pm
Over population.

And we dont have the ability to do it. We would have rampent homelessnes. Quality of life would go down.

We would be crowded like Japan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 6:34pm
Hades, we shouldn't because as great as it would be to let everyone who wanted to come in do so to reap the benifits of this country, we'd screw ourselves. Once they adopted the mindset of the average american, "I want everything and I want it now! And cheap!" we'd have the sort of problems France has had. Don't think we didn't have problems when the floodgates were wide open in the 1880's. try magnifying that. Also, are we supposed to let anyone who walks across the border vote? What would they vote for if anybody from anywhere was allowed to vote in US elections and on referendums? Why not just give our sovereignty to the UN and let the international community run the place?
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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 6:36pm

Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

My safety from terrorists is not as important as the improved life of millions crossing the border to work.

Also I dont see a problem with spending tax dollars on health care to people that need it, nor do I cry when a job goes to someone other than me.

How dare you be so self-less.  It's un-American.

Originally posted by DBib DBib wrote:

Over population.

Not really - we're not talking MORE people, just located differently.

 

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DBibeau855 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 6:37pm
More people go to the larger cities where the jobs are. We cant have half of india come here to be doctors, dentists and cab drivers.
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