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Immigrantion Issue

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holysmartone View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote holysmartone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 3:28pm
I think we need snipers every 1000 yards armed with .50 caliber sniper rifles. That would deter border hopping.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pump Scout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 3:29pm
I'm not in favor of just cutting off immigration from Mexico, I'm in favor of cutting it off entirely. Nobody comes in for a few years. I know it won't happen. I just don't think that it's helping our system to continually let in everyone who feels like showing up on our doorstep.

As for the program on housing, it's called ACORN. Part of the deal is that you have to have a taxpayer ID number... but you don't have to be legal to get one of those. Citibank and Wells Fargo (who, by the way, was recently investigated for other RESPA violations in their marketing) are the main lenders involved in this.

During my time as a loan officer, guess what would happen to me if I would have offered lower rates or better programs to one ethnicity, or one social group, based on anything other than credit? I'd go to jail. Just because major banks decided to do it, it's apparently OK.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rambino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 3:40pm

ACORN - interestingly, in addition to the loan program, there is also an organization named ACORN that is protesting Wells Fargo's alleged predatory lending practices...   :)

But even ACORN loans, TMK, are not based on immigration status, but strictly income.  And, as far as I know, the rates are not spectacularly good (prime minus 1), although there is assistance with down payments and PMI - standard low-income stuff.  But then you're the mortgage banker, not me.

And, not to hijack this thread further, but you do in fact have to be legally in country to get an individual TID - not all TIDs allow you to work, but you still need to show documentation at the SS office to get one.  Of course, plenty of illegals have fake SS numbers, so that doesn't mean much.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 3:47pm

Originally posted by Pump Scout Pump Scout wrote:

I'm not in favor of just cutting off immigration from Mexico, I'm in favor of cutting it off entirely. Nobody comes in for a few years. I know it won't happen. I just don't think that it's helping our system to continually let in everyone who feels like showing up on our doorstep.

You're right - it won't happen, and for good reason.

If we stopped all entrants cold, here are some of the things that would happen:

1.  Our agricultural industry would die instantly.

2.  Our tourism industry would die instantly.

3.  Our computer/hi-tech industry would die instantly.

4.  Our universities would suffer severe damage.

5.  Our finance/banking industry would suffer severe, potentially fatal, damage.

6.  The NHL would suck even more, as would MLB.

7.  Our international diplomatic credibility would be equal to that of Iran.

And that's just what comes to mind immediately.  We must face reality - isolationism is not only impossible, it is a really bad idea.  It would destroy our society as we know it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bolt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by Pump Scout Pump Scout wrote:

I'm not in favor of just cutting off immigration from Mexico, I'm in favor of cutting it off entirely.


Moron.

Illegal immigrants, definity have worked harder then you ever have.

They have just as much right as you and I to live a free and enjoyable life. They cannot control where they are born, therefore they should also not be penalized for it.

I am in support of Bush's guest worker program, with some changes of course, which is a rare for me. I also like the idea of any illegal immigrants currently in the US should be allowed to stay here, legally. I would also like to see a law enacted that enforces a minimum wage-based salary on all illegal immigrants.
 

Edited by Bolt3 - 28 March 2006 at 4:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

6.  The NHL would suck even more,

....


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by Bolt3 Bolt3 wrote:



Originally posted by Pump Scout Pump Scout wrote:

I'm not in favor of just cutting off immigration from Mexico, I'm in favor of cutting it off entirely.
Moron.Illegal immigrants, definity have worked harder then you ever have.They have just as much right as you and I to live a free and enjoyable life. They cannot control where they are born, therefore they should also not be penalized for it.I am in support of Bush's guest worker program, with some changes of course, which is a rare for me. I also like the idea of any illegal immigrants currently in the US should be allowed to stay here, legally. I would also like to see a law enacted that enforces a minimum wage-based salary on all illegal immigrants. <!--
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Yes.. They broke the law, the deserve to be punished. Do we say, oh that man robbed someone, but hes poor, we cant punish him. When someone breaks the law, they are punished. They can go through the proper channels just like anyone else. I just met a coptic christian from egypt. Hes goining the army to help him become a citizen. Where theres a will there is a way.

And holysmartone, we dont need any US citizens taking pot shots at people trying to cross the border.. Do you have any idea how that would make us look on and international leval? North Korea does that...

Edited by DBibeau855 - 28 March 2006 at 4:31pm
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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 4:34pm

Yeah...   While I have great sympathy for the plight of the poor of the world, I'm not sure I buy the idea that a country lacks the moral foundation for excluding others - or, conversely, that immigrants somehow have a "right" to be here.

Human history is all about excluding others - my stuff is "mine" primarily because you can't have it.

At the same time, I also don't accept that it is morally appropriate to sit on our pot o' gold and not share.  The two ideas are not mutually exclusive, IMO.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 4:38pm
Exactly, i dont think anyone but a person born to US parents or born in the US has any "right" to be a US citizen. So if they are ileagle, they dont have a "right" to stay here.

You can aspire to be a US citizen, but if it doesnt work out, thats just tough, it doesnt mean you can just jump the fence. Citizenship is denied far more in other countries than ours. And work permits, other countries hold onto those like the crown jewels.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 4:38pm
not that we have to support the poor population of the world, but a little kindness goes a long way. maybe work on getting more immigrants to come here legally and enforce standards that will motivate them to play it the right way and stay here legally.
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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 4:38pm

Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

  They can go through the proper channels just like anyone else. I just met a coptic christian from egypt. Hes goining the army to help him become a citizen. Where theres a will there is a way.

Not quite that easily - your Egyptian already had some legal immigration status.  The armed forces doesn't take any old foreigner.  Most would-be immigrants never even get to the point where they are eligible for military service, since (with some exception), you need a green card to be eligible.  Green cards are very, very difficult to get.

The truth of the matter is that the "proper channels" are woefully inadequate.  Only a small percentage of people that would like to enter have any chance of doing so legally, and even for those it is a risky, expensive, and time-consuming endeavour.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 4:41pm
Well he has been here for ten years. Got his BA on a student visa, then got a work visa and he works for united airlines right now, he just got his green card 3 months ago. Hes going to be a 98Gulf in the army. But its taken him 10 years in all to get where he is right now. And his story is identicle to hundreds of thousands of others. Theres no reason that these people can follow the rules and put the time in and pay their dues and get sponsorships and others cant or dont want to "do it the hard way." Nothing really worth getting was ever easy.

Edited by DBibeau855 - 28 March 2006 at 4:43pm
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ZOMG SN1P3RS 0N TH3 B0Rd3R.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pump Scout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 4:45pm
Originally posted by Bolt3 Bolt3 wrote:

Moron. (Blah, blah, blah)


Son, if you're going to bring name-calling into this, you've voided your point. Besides which, I'm looking back into some of your past posts, and having a hard time finding any intelligence in any of them. Keep your names to yourself, please.

As for my opinions, they're my opinions. They're obviously not completely popular. I'm OK with that. I still think that there are some massive social and economical changes that need to be made in this country. Whether or not I'm correct is something that time will bear out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 4:51pm

Why did you have to bring hockey into this Clark.

I dare say most of the players in the NCAA Frozen-Four [April 6th, 3pm and 6pm] are American born, with some exceptions. We dont import ALL of our players from Scandinavia and East Europe....Just most...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 4:53pm

Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

Theres no reason that these people can follow the rules and put the time in and pay their dues and get sponsorships and others cant or dont want to "do it the hard way." Nothing really worth getting was ever easy.

Plenty of reason.

First, the student visa - this requires acceptance to a US school.  Your average migrant worker is never going to school.  Then, beyond acceptance, they have to pay for it, and foreigners usually out-of-state tuition, and are not eligible for US student loans, so unless they are from a rich country that has lots of support available, they need to bankroll it themselves.  Working on-campus is also very limited under these visas.

F-1 student visas are primarily for the smart and wealthy.  Most would-be immigrants are neither.

Then, assuming you manage to get through college, you now need a job pretty much immediately, or they have to leave.  How many Americans have jobs right out of college?  And the job has to be in their field of study - no burger-flipping.  AND the employer has to be willing to sponsor them for an H-1B temporary work visa (PITA for the employer).  AND, even if all that works, you have to hope that you get one of the very limited number of H-1B's allocated for that year.  If you don't get in under the low cap, you are sol and out of country.

H-1B's, of course, require a college degree or equivalent.  If you didn't go to school to begin with, this won't work.  Agricultural workers do not qualify for this visa at all.  And, of course, the the H-1B is only good for 3+3 years.

And I won't even get into the qualifications for green cards.  Painfully difficult, expensive, and time-consuming.

But those are mostly for professionals anyway - your average agriculture/landscaping/hotel worker is not eligible for ANY work-based green card category.  ZERO.  Outside of family or marriage, there is currently relalistically NO LEGAL WAY for your average Mexican border-hopper to legally gain a green card.  None.

It's not a matter of not trying hard enough - there simply is no path.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cedric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 4:54pm
I think the government should try to make becoming a legal citizen easier. Then we wouldn't have this problem.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by Pump Scout Pump Scout wrote:

Originally posted by Bolt3 Bolt3 wrote:

Moron. (Blah, blah, blah)


Son, if you're going to bring name-calling into this, you've voided your point. Besides which, I'm looking back into some of your past posts, and having a hard time finding any intelligence in any of them. Keep your names to yourself, please.

As for my opinions, they're my opinions. They're obviously not completely popular. I'm OK with that. I still think that there are some massive social and economical changes that need to be made in this country. Whether or not I'm correct is something that time will bear out.


Yeah but cutting off imigration to this country would be terrible!

Do you know the state our country is in right now? We have no real culture at all, its all cheap and hollow. People think shows like the simple life and blue collar comedy tour are great shows. We even have some people that think that the show X-Files is a documentry... I call this the .010 facter... Im a firm believer that at least .01% of the population is just stageringly STUPID. And thats ok. Our country is built on mediocrity, were ok with that. But if we let our country desend into a thick hell of strip malls, mcdonalds and our entertainment become that of the simple life, american idle and whatever reality tv crap they shove down our throats, we will miss out on some things that are so great about imigration, like, italian resturants, greek resturants, italian opera, drama, russian ballet.

You should really think what your "ideas" would do to this country. If you were to cut off imigration, with in 50 years, our countries culture would be reduced to that of your average middle schooler.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 5:01pm

Originally posted by Pump Scout Pump Scout wrote:

Son, if you're going to bring name-calling into this, you've voided your point. Besides which, I'm looking back into some of your past posts, and having a hard time finding any intelligence in any of them. Keep your names to yourself, please.

I obviously disagree with Pump Scout on immigration issues, but certainly agree 100% with this.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2006 at 5:04pm
Well then Clark, we need to work on that. But that doesnt make it ok to just cheat the system. Obviously something needs to be done. But we cant just open the flood gates. That would be disasterous i think. That would force some people out of jobs. Im not saying, ZOMG they took ar jaahbs. But, its something to think about.
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