Tippmann Pneumatics Inc. Homepage
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

C-3 Myths Debunked!

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
Author
DeTrevni View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
b-YOU-ick. Was that so hard?

Joined: 19 September 2005
Location: Houston, Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 11763
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: C-3 Myths Debunked!
    Posted: 20 March 2006 at 9:44pm

Okay, I've noticed some repeated, and all together silly, ideas about ways to fix the "problems" the C-3 doesn't really have. I am here to make a (hopefully) sticky-worthy post on various C-3 myths. If I missed something important or got the facts wrong, please post corrections.

First, a background: The C-3 is Tippmann's latest inovation to the paintball world. It is a pump marker, made mostly of aluminum and composite, that uses an igniton system and camping propane (16 oz.) tanks to fire 50,000 rounds of colorful goodness per tank.

Myth #1: The flame-thrower: This is by far the most repeated and useless idea yet, so stop posting it. The C-3 lets only the minimum amount of propane into the ignition chamber needed to launch a paintball at legal speeds. Translation: all of the propane used for the shot has been used up! The only thing coming out of the barrel is harmless, non-flammable gases. One could only assume that Tippmann engineers would have safe-guarded against important safety issues such as a legal flame thrower.

Myth #2: Semiautomatic C-3: Or any propane gun for that matter. At this time, a semiauto propane powered marker is out of the question. Of course, I can't predict the future. The problem with a propane powered semi is this: the handwarmer effect. The more rapidly you shoot the C-3, the hotter it gets. The C-3 itself only gets minimally warm, even comfy on a cold day, but anything faster and you would basically be holding a hot coal. Tippmann would be looking at lawsuits and a bad reputation for somethig like that. Now, you may suggest insulation. Tippmann is known for making markers reliable and cheap, and these added features would most certainly bring the price up considerably, not to mention impacting the overall performance. In conclusion, I forsee a semiauto propane gun for the future, but at the moment, the idea is dangerous and not practical for business.

Myth #3: Explosion hazard: Once again, people underrate Tippmann's design staff. Anywhere there is propane in the C-3 is basically sealed off from the environment. The only way to get a C-3 to go pop is to throw one in the fire for a while. This means you can smoke, burn incense, sing camp songs around a fire and cook in the out doors safely around your C-3. But use common sense. Don't stick your cigareete directly down the barrel to try to cause a reaction, for that would make you stupid, and I know you're not stupid...

Myth #4: The stink: What you are smelling when you release propane into the air is an identifier mixed into the gas by the bottling company to let you know that the tank is leaking. Propane itself is odorless. After you shoot, the bulk of the identifier is burt off, and the shot is basically odorless. Of course, if you try really hard, you can smell something, but why would you want to? The amount of propane the C-3 uses is minimal, like mentioned before, and there is probably not enough propane used to actually release a smell. Even if it did, the odds are you are playing outdoors and would never notice the smell. Even the indoor players wouldn't really notice simply because there probably won't be enough propane released to make a smell strong enough to top every other stench.

Myth #5: Propane on other guns: The C-3 uses an IGNITION system to drive the bolt to propel the painball, not a pressure release system, so hooking up a propane tank to your 98c or A-5 will do nothing. Or, if anything, it will RUIN your internals like your o-rings. Save yourself the misery and don't do it.

Myth (or problem) #6: Aftermarket accessories: As of this time, there are NO aftermarket parts for the C-3. The C-3 is a brand new product, and has a whole different opperating system than other markers, and in consequence, there are no parts being manufactured to cope with propane performance. As for the barrel, it is a whole different system also. If I am not mistaken, it is a fixed part of the gun, so a new barrel would have to be milled in, and that is not a wise decision.

Diagram: Here is an updated animation done by Mephistopheles.

Step 1: What happens with the back pump stroke.
When you pump the handle back, you do a few things. Of course you're pulling the bolt back to chamber a ball! That's obvious. But there are 2 other things.
One being the first step of ventilation the excess gas. The propane/air mixture that doesn't get used needs to be vented out. So it migrates through the exhaust piston to the front of the chamber.
The other being the brass piston in the front. It is a pneumatic "switch" just as the autococker 4-way is a "switch." When the pump handle pushes in this brass piston it allows a tiny amount of propane to flow through an external gas line, like a 98 RT setup. This gas is routed to the back of the chamber for step 2.

Step 2: Next what happens with the forward pump stroke.
From here you will, again get obvious out of the way, finish chambering a single paintball. Now on to more unobvious detail.
On the giant piston connected to the pump rod there is a U-ring. "Flapper." First this is keeping the spent gas from returning back, along with the piston valve. These spent gases are finally vented out the front of the body. Next, these U-ring is sucking in the air from the back of the valve body, and sucking in the propane.

Step 3: Finally, when you pull the trigger...
As soon as you pull the trigger, underneath the combustion chamber is essentially a spark plug. A very fast series of tiny sparks will ignite the propane. Upon ignition the pressure will build drastically (honestly a tiny explosion) and start to push back the REAR piston. Once back far enough the expanding gases will vent out, through the bolt, and propell the paintball out the barrel. This is why the spring tension regulates velocity. And of course not all the gas exhausts, which is why the step 1 process is required.

This also explains why the barrel needed to be a proprietary design, it HAD to be made of the composite material. Too much heat buildup for a standard metal barrel.

NOW OPEN: PROBLEMS AND SOLUTIONS

I have decided to include a realtime problems and solutions chart. If you have experianced troubles with your C-3, and were able to have it fixed (either by you or Tippmann) than PM me, and I will post it here. That way, there will be a trouble shooting list made by people actually on this forum. Neat huh?

Problem: C-3 fails to prime. Requires multiple pumps to actually fire the ball.
Solution: Most likely warped or severed internal o-rings. Since it would be a silly thing to take a combustion chamber apart, it would be best to send it in to Tippmann, who, if under warrenty, will repair it free and quickly.

That's all i got so far . PM me your C-3 quick fixes and help everyone!

 

There you have it. That is all I could think of at the moment. If anyone wants to add any more info, just P.M. me so I can add it, or just post it below. Serious posts please.



Edited by DeTrevni - 27 July 2006 at 1:31am
Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"

Back to Top
Styro Folme View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Strike 1 - Rules 1 and 2

Joined: 28 February 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8087
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styro Folme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2006 at 10:44pm
very stickey worthy.    i didn't spot anything wrong.  i even learned some interesting stuff....
X
Back to Top
Monk View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 23 October 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6552
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2006 at 10:47pm
You should post the pic of how it works in there as well.
/\ /\ \/ \/ < > < > B A START
Back to Top
DeTrevni View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
b-YOU-ick. Was that so hard?

Joined: 19 September 2005
Location: Houston, Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 11763
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2006 at 11:10pm
added.
Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"

Back to Top
__sneaky__ View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Voted 2010 Most Improved Forumer

Joined: 14 January 2006
Location: Uncertain
Status: Offline
Points: 5285
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2006 at 12:17am
I agree, it should be stickied.
"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl


Forum Vice President
Back to Top
MVM91 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Strike 1 - Filter Dodge 3/23

Joined: 16 January 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 209
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MVM91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2006 at 3:20pm
STICKY STICKY STICKY
Back to Top
Jman27 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 277
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jman27 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2006 at 4:15pm
very nice.......sticky
Go Buckeyes
Back to Top
Joe98custom View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 March 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe98custom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2006 at 5:38pm
I actually have a question, it may be stupid, but I actually am wondering: I understand all the workings and every-thing. If I have it right there is an explosion and the explosion blows the ball out of the gun basically, so is there any possibility of melting or deforming the ball because of excess heat? This probably is a dumb question, but I am being serious here.
Back to Top
DeTrevni View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
b-YOU-ick. Was that so hard?

Joined: 19 September 2005
Location: Houston, Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 11763
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2006 at 7:41pm

i dont think deformation will be a problem. even if there was excess heat, the ball is only in the barrel, thus only around the heat, for a fraction of a second, if even that. that is probably not nearly enough time to melt a relatively durable paintball.



Edited by DeTrevni - 21 March 2006 at 10:03pm
Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"

Back to Top
Ruska View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Rhymes with ... er, Tuska!!

Joined: 16 January 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 576
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ruska Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2006 at 9:02pm
That animation was made by a member here too, mephestophilies or w/e

Stickied

Edited by Ruska - 21 March 2006 at 9:02pm
Back to Top
procarbinefreak View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Budget Medical Procedures Available

Joined: 12 June 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 12750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote procarbinefreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 March 2006 at 3:19pm
BUT ZOMG IT'S GONNA BLOW!




anyway yeah... good post... hope people actually read it.
Back to Top
the flanker View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 March 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 756
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the flanker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2006 at 1:15pm
yea in the uprade forum a person said he was gona hook up his propane tank to his 98 custom lol he should have read this post first. He proably has a pretty messed up 98c right now


perhaps the greatest movie ever
Back to Top
ghost920 View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 23 March 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 22
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghost920 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2006 at 5:02pm
very nice dude.... this took away my suspicions about it.... thanks alot
Back to Top
MoNkeY Hunter View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 July 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 766
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MoNkeY Hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2006 at 9:13pm
 Good Post. That would be sweet rec or woodz gun
Back to Top
Stoz View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 April 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 231
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stoz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2006 at 12:10pm
Maybe you can help me out here. I may be doing something wrong, or this might just be a problem with the gun itself. When I'm playing, if I have not fired within about 5 seconds, I have to pump my C3 three times in order to get it to begin firing again. After that, I have to maintain a steady rate of fire, or I will again have to do a 3-pump to get it going. As you can imagine, this is a pretty crappy thing to deal with if I suddenly find myself face-to-face with a player with an A-5 and he's unloading on me while I'm trying to pump 3 times to to shoot once.
Back to Top
DeTrevni View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
b-YOU-ick. Was that so hard?

Joined: 19 September 2005
Location: Houston, Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 11763
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2006 at 4:19pm

from what it sounds like, it might be ignition. the ignition is electric, and from this branch 2 possibilities. the first, your battery might be low, try changing it. second, there may be a bad connection in the wiring or there may not be a full connection when you pull the trigger. check the connections.

also, you might be venting propane on the forward stroke, thus not charging the chamber. for this, you might need to get it repaired by a proshop or tippmann.

see if these help.



Edited by DeTrevni - 25 April 2006 at 4:24pm
Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"

Back to Top
Stoz View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 April 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 231
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stoz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2006 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by DeTrevni DeTrevni wrote:

from what it sounds like, it might be ignition. the ignition is electric, and from this branch 2 possibilities. the first, your battery might be low, try changing it. second, there may be a bad connection in the wiring or there may not be a full connection when you pull the trigger. check the connections.

also, you might be venting propane on the forward stroke, thus not charging the chamber. for this, you might need to get it repaired by a proshop or tippmann.

see if these help.



I am 100% certain that the battery is not the problem. If I pump it once and pull the trigger, I hear the shock in the chamber. If I pump it twice, same thing. Three times gets me enough propane to fire. If I let it sit for a few seconds, I have to go through this again. Once I get it to fire once, I can continuously fire (within about 3 seconds between each shot), but if I stop, I must three-pump it again.

I do recall reading that the C3 had to be "primed" by pumping it several times before play, but I didn't realize that the propane all vented out within a matter of seconds. I'll try calling Tippmann on Thursday and see what they think.
Back to Top
DeTrevni View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
b-YOU-ick. Was that so hard?

Joined: 19 September 2005
Location: Houston, Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 11763
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2006 at 2:49pm

i have added a realtime trouble shooting section. thats where if anyone has a problem that they fixed (or tippmann fixed) with their c-3, they'll pm me and ill post it. that way, there will be a help section with actual problems from actual forumers.

stoz's idea. thank him.

Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"

Back to Top
mikeandkyle View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 May 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 31
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikeandkyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 June 2006 at 10:48am
Could you put a BBQ size propane tank on ur C-3 then, just find a place to hide with it, or maybe put the tank in ur backpack? Of course you would have to get a remote line and hook that up to be able to do ether of those.
Back to Top
DeTrevni View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
b-YOU-ick. Was that so hard?

Joined: 19 September 2005
Location: Houston, Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 11763
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 6:31am

im not gonna say its impossible, just improbable. im sure someone could pull it off, but it doesnt make sense. with a 16 oz propane tank you have 50,000 shots. that is 25 cases of paint. most players only go through 1 case of paint in a 48 hour scenario with a semi. less than that with a pump! one 16 oz. tank is more than enough to last you MANY games, and adding a giant bbq propane tank will just detract from the functionality. not to mention lugging it to your spot and trying to hide it...

so the answer is - with mods - possibly yes, but dont do it. it wouldnt be functional.



Edited by DeTrevni - 08 June 2006 at 6:33am
Evil Elvis: "Detrevni is definally like a hillbilly hippy from hell"

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.03

This page was generated in 0.188 seconds.