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    Posted: 17 February 2006 at 6:31pm
Alright guys.  I have run into a bit of a problem.  I polished my gun with a dremmel polisher/grinder end.  The gun worked absolutely perfect.  Ever since I got my RVA and I re polished my gun, it will shoot fine sometimes, and most of the time it tries to go full auto (with the regular grip not E-Grip) like it is low on air.  I think I could have ground down too much or something.  Do any of you guys have a solution to this problem or a reason for why it's happening?  Let me state that when I re polished the gun, it was just with the little buff pad and not the grinder thing.  I've changed out my rear springs with different strengths (Trinity Spring Kit) and haven't seen that make any improvement.  Could you guys help me out?  I'm worried I might have screwed up my gun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DanSD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2006 at 6:38pm
Check the sear and rear bolt.  Make sure that it isn't worn.  Also make sure that the ball latch is not backwards.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eldiablo_si Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2006 at 6:48pm
No everything is together properly and the bolt is in great condition.  I did however, polish the sear, so it took a layer or two of metal off.  But, like I said, it does work well on occassion.  It fires full auto and decocks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2006 at 8:57pm

Originally posted by eldiablo_si eldiablo_si wrote:

No everything is together properly and the bolt is in great condition.  I did however, polish the sear, so it took a layer or two of metal off.  But, like I said, it does work well on occassion.  It fires full auto and decocks.

That little polish job you put on the sear is probably the problem. An ever so slight rounding of the sharp corner of the sear that engages the notch will prevent it from engaging properly. Been there, done that also. It really requires a holder to maintain angles and uniformity from edge to edge when "polishing" a sear. Buy another sear and lube the rear bolts "O" ring and she'll be back in service.

Or you can work on the sear with a proper stone and you may re-establish the angle and sharpness to restore function, but it takes some very careful effort to re-establish those correct angles.

If you have touched the notch area of the rear bolt with the polishing bob that may have added to the failure mode. The rear bolt is relatively soft and easier to re-create the good sharp notch. But, that also takes careful work to get precisely square so that the sear engages dead on perfectly over the sear's width.



Edited by Bruce A. Frank - 17 February 2006 at 8:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2006 at 1:06pm
Why did you polish the sear?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wildgoat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2006 at 3:11pm

Yep, Polishing the sear wasn't a good Idea. Polishing the back bolt being careful not to round the notch would have been better.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eldiablo_si Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2006 at 5:35pm
Well after the sear polish job, everything went back together and worked fine.  I went back later and hit the back bolt so that must be the problem.  How much will a back bolt run me new?  I know county has them, but the site is down at the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2006 at 10:19pm

Originally posted by eldiablo_si eldiablo_si wrote:

Well after the sear polish job, everything went back together and worked fine.  I went back later and hit the back bolt so that must be the problem.  How much will a back bolt run me new?  I know county has them, but the site is down at the time.

Before you give up on the original rear bolt try going after the sear engagement notch one of two ways.

First let me say that it is still likely that the slightly reshaped sear is probably the primary culprit. But, the double whammy of going after both parts with the polishing brought about the failure. I will make a guesstimate based on personal experience that a few hours of using that slightly reshaped sear against the stock bolt notch would have brought about failure the same failure. These parts fit together much better than you think they do. If you buy a new rear bolt, you really need to install an new sear at the same time.

Now, back to "fixing the bolt." Mount the bolt in a vise to hold it steady then take a good sharp (new blade) hack saw and take a few steady smooth strokes in the notch to deepen it ever so slightly and to alter the angle just a bit. That is, tilt the blade ever so slightly so that rather than the cut being at a right angle to the horizontal plane of the bolt (straight down) it cuts to the rear slightly to create a slight notch or hook shape to the groove. The picture blow is exaggerated, but I think you can get the idea.

This can get you functioning and may wear in to the point that it works well...but don't plan on using it indefinately...get those new parts.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eldiablo_si Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2006 at 10:38pm

Ok, now I'm a bit confused.  I thought that the little dove-tail on the back of the bolt is what the sear hit?  But what you are saying is it is the little square notch that is approx. in the center of the bolt?  Could you please specify because I though I understood how it worked, but now I'm not so sure.  Thanks for all the help and being patient with me.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2006 at 3:00am
Originally posted by eldiablo_si eldiablo_si wrote:

Ok, now I'm a bit confused.  I thought that the little dove-tail on the back of the bolt is what the sear hit?  But what you are saying is it is the little square notch that is approx. in the center of the bolt?  Could you please specify because I though I understood how it worked, but now I'm not so sure.  Thanks for all the help and being patient with me.

Assemble the internals on the right half of the shell and you will see where all the parts mesh together. I didn't intend this to be a photographic quality rendering. Certainly if you have taken it apart you know which is the sear notch!

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Taken it apart more times than I can count just for the hell of it.  I thought that was the sear notch, but somehow the way you said it confused me.  Thanks again man.  I suppose I will have to find myself a new rear bolt and sear.  Hopefully not too expensive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2006 at 5:47pm

Originally posted by eldiablo_si eldiablo_si wrote:

Taken it apart more times than I can count just for the hell of it.  I thought that was the sear notch, but somehow the way you said it confused me.  Thanks again man.  I suppose I will have to find myself a new rear bolt and sear.  Hopefully not too expensive.

After I had the experience of my marker malfunctioning after working on those same parts, I always carried a spare sear and rear bolt. Even though now I run the E-Bolt, I still keep those spare parts in the kit. If push comes to shove I could convert back to mechanical in 20 minutes and still get in a days play if the my electro pneumatic broke down. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eldiablo_si Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2006 at 6:03pm
Well, I just found something interesting out.  Like I said before, I have changed out rear springs to different strengths.  I'm using like the 2nd to weakest strength as of right now.  At first, it did like I described, but as I started tweaking the rear velocity adjuster, I found that there is a certain spot (like one or two threads on the RVA) where it fires perfectly.  Knowing this new information, it doesn't make logical sense to me what you have been saying.  I mean, it shouldn't matter about spring tension if the bolt and the sear aren't fitting together properly right?  Maybe I'm way wrong, but could this change your previous diagnosis? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2006 at 7:35pm

Originally posted by eldiablo_si eldiablo_si wrote:

Well, I just found something interesting out.  Like I said before, I have changed out rear springs to different strengths.  I'm using like the 2nd to weakest strength as of right now.  At first, it did like I described, but as I started tweaking the rear velocity adjuster, I found that there is a certain spot (like one or two threads on the RVA) where it fires perfectly.  Knowing this new information, it doesn't make logical sense to me what you have been saying.  I mean, it shouldn't matter about spring tension if the bolt and the sear aren't fitting together properly right?  Maybe I'm way wrong, but could this change your previous diagnosis? 

No. The correct relationship between the sear and the rear bolt will provide for proper function through a wide range of spring pressures...which is why you can actually adjust your velocity by adjusting spring pressure thus changing how hard the rear bolt (hammer) hits the pin valve. It is not surprising that at one limited adjustment that you could find a sweet spot that will allow damaged parts to function.

But, at this point you'd have to go back to the velocity screw to control ball velocity. Your RVA has become useless for its intended function with these damaged parts. Replace the hammer (rear bolt) and sear to restore full function or go take an airsmith or gunsmith course to learn proper technique for polishing and optimizing trigger function with sear and hammer mods.



Edited by Bruce A. Frank - 19 February 2006 at 9:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eldiablo_si Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2006 at 8:09pm

Ok, well I guess I need to quit avoiding the inevitable and go buy myself some replacements.  What do you think it will cost for a replacement sear and rear bolt?  Like I said, I know County has them, but they are down right now.  Also, I have read mixed reviews on that titanium rear bolt (not sure of the company).  Do you know anything about it?  I think it was like $60 or something.  Is it worth it over the stock one or what?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eldiablo_si Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2006 at 8:35pm
I have found a replacement bolt, but I have a new question.  This is different than the one in my gun, and it is the new style, but will it work with my gun without modification?  http://www.tippmannparts.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.pr odInfo&productID=920&categoryID=13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2006 at 9:24pm

Originally posted by eldiablo_si eldiablo_si wrote:

I have found a replacement bolt, but I have a new question.  This is different than the one in my gun, and it is the new style, but will it work with my gun without modification?  http://www.tippmannparts.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.pr odInfo&productID=920&categoryID=13

Don't you read the info they provide on the page? It is a replacement for the old bolt. It is being shipped in place of the old bolt. It requires a different insert than the old bolt. Should I be so obvious as to say that it is being shipped in place of the old bolt so it is intended to still fit in place of the old bolt and the information provided on the parts page said nothing about having to modify the older marker to accept the new, same part number, part!!!

Eldiablo, keep on asking questions about minutia that is explained in the readily available literature and I will eventually make a comment about your laziness and desire to be spoon fed rather than to do a little research. You question was CLEARLY answered by the info on the parts page.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eldiablo_si Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2006 at 9:56pm

.................whoa, c'mon man.  I slipped up one time.  I might not have a high post count, but I try not to ask noobish questions.  Sorry, you can put your sword away.

On a side note:  Would the new style bolt provide any performance advantage (don't know how just thought I would ask)?  And there is no need in you answering about the titanium bolt.  I read that it should only be used with a LPK or it won't work well at all.



Edited by eldiablo_si - 19 February 2006 at 10:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eldiablo_si Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2006 at 10:11pm

Since you have been so helpful Bruce, I have a new problem that has emerged.  Not sure what it is called, but the little thin piece of metal that my trigger clicks to activate the E-Trigger has not only bent horribly (don't ask how.  it's a long story), but the back part of the black actuator (best word to describe the little black box I could think of) where the metal piece goes in the groove is broken (i.e it won't stay in there at all and it's bent anyways).  I also have ripped just about every wire out of the board.  If I were to send this to Tippmann, would they just fix it and send it back or what?

Didn't want to start a new thread since I'm getting such informative responses in this one.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2006 at 11:43pm
Originally posted by eldiablo_si eldiablo_si wrote:

.................whoa, c'mon man.  I slipped up one time.  I might not have a high post count, but I try not to ask noobish questions.  Sorry, you can put your sword away.

On a side note:  Would the new style bolt provide any performance advantage (don't know how just thought I would ask)?  And there is no need in you answering about the titanium bolt.  I read that it should only be used with a LPK or it won't work well at all.

I would guess that in this case changes were made only as a cost savings. 



Edited by Bruce A. Frank - 20 February 2006 at 4:17pm
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