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how to be a sniper?

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JcKa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JcKa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2006 at 6:48pm
everybody chill out
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2nd LT. USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2006 at 2:09pm
Ur just like me, im not into double triggers, nor shooting 15bps+ etc etc... i like the whole sniper thing too lets talk! and exchange ideas PM me ok
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pro_Carbine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2006 at 5:48pm

Jesus Chirstmas i am sick of hearing this. THERE ARE SNIPERS. id say, barrel, bypod, sight, stock

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aaron_98 custom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2006 at 5:54pm
u can act like a sniper. Get no upgrades accept a very long barrel maybe a 24''..............then get a fake skope like at www.opsgear.com..........lol it will look like one
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote warbeak2099 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2006 at 6:56pm
You really can't snipe effectively as it is in current paintball. The technology to fire accurately at long distances doesn't exist. You can have either range or accuracy, but not both. A long range barrel such as the flatline or apex would be better for laying down covering fire as opposed to precision one-balls.

Now, if you want to play the role of a marksman of some sort, you certainly can. However, to do it effectively you will need to engage in fighting the other team within closer ranges like any other paintballer. I did this before I switched to speedball.

You're going to need to spend more time on camo and concealment, than trying to hit the enemy fromas far away as possible. As I said before, in current paintball, closer is better. Invest in some basic BDUs and build ghillie around that. For a paintball "ambusher" as i call it, you'll want light ghillie that gives you maximum maneuverability. Use fake leaves and mesh, and use burlap or jute conservatively. Don't get crazy with rifle rags or bushrag stuff.

You might also want a sight system. A scope is fine, but calibrate it at distances of 50-75 feet, not over that. Because those are the ranges you're going to be playing at. Red dot sights are better. Oh, and if you're gonna buy a scope, don't spend more than $20. You don't need anything more powerful than a basic airgun or .22 rifle scope.

As for a barrel, consider maneuverability again. 14" works perfectly. You can poke it through brush or rest it up against most bunkers, and it will still allow you to move around well. Make sure it is quiet also. Since you aren't going to be shooting a lot, gas efficiency won't matter that much, so don't worry about porting as long as it's always past the first 6-8" of the barrel. The best barrel for an ambush type player would be a Stiffi. If you can't afford $100, then go with a J&J Ceramic.

Bipods are unnecesary since you are going to be moving around a lot. If you do set up a position, learn to rest the gun on bunkers or other objects. Also learn to shoot without a gun-rest. Hit and runs must be possible at all times. A bipod will slow you down.

Let's talk about stocks and remotes. If you're going to be playing as an ambusher, a stock will be helpful. The best would be a folding stock because of it's versatility. The most important thing is to find something that's comfortable for carefully setting up shots, and is also easy to move around with and snapshoot with. A remote is pretty much neccesary if you haev a stock. Using a stock and tank on your gun not only looks stupid, but it's awkward as hell. You'll get increased mobility too since your setup will be lighter.

The best loader to use would be a Qloader. It has a low profile, is light, fast, reliable, has no batteries, blah de blah de blah. It's perfect for limited shooting, but it will get you out of a dense firefight too. If you can't afford one, get something reliable like a Ricochet. Stay away from Viewloaders.

Also consider upgrades that will give you greater consistancy. HPA, a good quality regulator, an LP kit, x-chamber for co2, anti-siphon for co2 (a must have if you are not using remote), etc.   

Well, that's all I have to say. You can ignore me and go try being a long baller, but I'm speaking from experience. I tried to be a sniper at first. But, I quickly realized that playing the "ambusher" role is more effective. In the 6 years I've been playing paintball, I have not seen technology yet that can provide you with the ability to snipe as a real military or law enforcement sniper does. Just train yourself to shoot from 50-75ft. That's the key distance, 50-75ft...
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drew is back Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2006 at 11:55pm
omg people ME, Snake, Drew 08(my other account, im not a spammer), and JcKa already explained it all
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2006 at 12:38am

Alright, I'm going to attempt to ignor the whole sniper thing and tell you how to save paint. I often play with a 45round hopper and 9oz tank so I can have a lightweight marker. If you want accuracy, I'd say get a LAPCO barrel of some type(or smart parts) a 45 round hopper for a small profile, some ten round ubes for extra ammo, a red dot sight, and a 7-12oz co2 tank with a butt plate. Possibly a red dot sight, maybe a palmer's stabilizer or N2 tank later on. buy good quality fresh paint and practice a lot. Learn when to shoot and when not to bother. You're not going to do much heavy suppression work with a setup like this, so shoot once in a while to keep em from moving and get closer and at a better angle so you can pop em out with a low ball usage.

As to snipers in paintball, it's possible to plink sombody out from hiding. I don't see how this differs from an ambush, but call it what you want. Read the thread in New Players, I think the subject was delt with well enough there.

For you turds claiming consistant 150'+ shots with standard non-backspin barrels, PM me if you want a link to a ballistics calculator and the appropriate data to plug in if you want to see how wind effects paint at that range and how severe the velocity loss and paintball drop is. Max effective range of a paintball gun on a point target is 30 yards, max on an area target, 35-40 yards, max effective range is 50 yards. If you disagree I'll post the link and information here so you can all try plugging it in and see how many FEET high you'll need to aim to make a 200 foot shot when you're zeroed in for 20-30 yards.

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At least half the people here don't even know what a real sniper does, or what it takes to earn that title. Everyone that has flamed this kid for using the word sniper just lost nearly all respect I may have had for them. I honestly have done more then average research into this subject. Not just in the paintball sniper debate, but into snipers themselves. It really makes me sad when people argue about this and they have no idea what they are talking about. I'm not going to argue about it. I am going to answer this guys questions, if I even remember them after getting so frustrated at these silly arguments.

So you want to be a sniper, or something like one?(notice he said, "or something like one" Now don't you feel stupid for flaming him?)

I assume by that statement you will want to following things: Accuracy, durability, reliability, simplicity, compactness and ease of transport, range, quietness and concealment. Those are just a few of the things people will want in a paitnball gun designed for the "sniper" type. Now.. To get accuracy there are several suggestions I have to make. First is getting consistancy under control. This can be done in several ways. First, HPA. This will help a lot. Second, a reg. This will help the HPA be even more consistant. The reason you want a consistant pressure is because this will effect the volocity, or the speed at which the paintball is fired. If its fired faster or slower each shot it will effect how far it goes. If it shoots the same volocity every time it will shoot the same distance every time, which is basically one element of accuracy. Of course, it always needs to be at or less then 300 fps to be safe. Then of course we have the barrel. The quality of the barrel is important. Not the length or things like rifling. The quality and bore size of the barrel is what you want. I would suggest lengths between 10" and 14" just because I think those are good sizes. If you get up into the 20 inchers you will gradually start to degrade the efficientcy. The longer lengths wont help any, so you might as well just keep it shorter. The paint size to bore size match is important too. You don't want the paintball to be able to fall through, and you don't want it so tight that you can't blow it through.

I guess I'll move on now.. I will handle the next three, durability, simplicity and reliability, all in one. You have a Tippmann, its covered. Moving on to compactness. Tippmanns are long, so this may be a little more difficult then it would be with a different marker. A few ways to make it compact are obvious.. Reasonable sized barrel and remote should get it plenty small. Range wont be effected by much more then volocity. Of course you can't just increase volocity past 300 fps so everyone will be shooting about the same range. If you get the flatline it will increase range, but its not worth it in my opinion. Quietness can be handled in a few different ways. Tippmanns are just loud. Most blowbacks are. You can try to cover the bolt area up a bit be getting one of the bolt mods or just covering it with something. The barrel you choose will also effect how much noise you make when you shoot. Concealment is really up to you and how well you can hide. The marker can be covered with camo and stuff and it may help if you use it right. Just learn how to use it and your set. This is really up to you though. There isn't any mod you can get that will hide you. Your going to have to do that on your own. And thats all I'll talk about now. I hope it helped.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2006 at 4:12pm

The History of Military Sniping, and how it relates to the Game of Paintball.

Ok. So I got bored, and I am sick and tried of this stupid sniper debate. I got a Barnes and Noble gift card for Christmas, and didn’t know what else to get so I picked up several books on Military Snipers. Here are my findings.

< -- Note: Due to a problem with my code, you have to Highlight my rifle comparison tables to see them. It’s a bother, but if someone knows how to fix it, PM me. -- >

First lets go over the basics of what a sniper is, and what a sniper is not.

“A sniper…is considered a specialist, whose prime function is to kill selected high value targets at long range using superior skill and armament. A sharpshooter, by contrast, is a rifleman (proficient or otherwise) who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises”

From SNIPER by Adrian Gilbert

Keep this in your mind as you read the rest of the article.

The American Revolution (1775-83)

Sniping first came onto the battlefield during the American Revolution. Standard infantry of this period were equipped with “Brown Bess” smoothbore muskets. The Continental Congress approves 10 independent companies, armed with long rifles. The men of these companies were the first snipers.

Comparison between the “Brown Bess” musket, and the Long Rifle.

“A soldiers musket, if not exceedingly ill bored (as many are), will strike the figure of a man at 80 yards: it may even at 100, but a soldier must be very unfortunate indeed who shall be wounded by a common musket at 150 yards, provided that the antagonist aims at him; as to firing at a man at 200 yards, with a common, musket, you might as well fire at the moon.” –British Major Hanger, on the “Brown Bess” musket

 In contrast, the American Long Rifle (as carried by the Irregular companies), was effective in ranges up to 300 yards, and headshots could be achieved at 200. At these ranges American Snipers picked-off high ranking British Officers. During the battle of Saratoga an American sniper brought down British General Simon Frasier from a range of 300 yards. Despite its advantages the long rifle had several disadvantages. Its slow reload time(2 shots a minute), and lack of bayonet fixture made it useful only as a skirmisher weapon, not for use as a standard infantry weapon.



Long Rifle

Brown Bess Musket

Range:

300 yards

80 yards

As you can see from the table, the Rifle outranged the common muskets of the time by over 200 yards.

The War of Northern Aggression (American Civil War) (1861-65)

During the Civil War, the standard infantry rifles were the Enfield(for the south), and the Springfield(for the north). These were muzzleloading rifles with effective ranges up to 500 yards. The confederacy managed to acquire Witworth and Kerr rifles from Europe for their snipers. These rifles had an effective range of well over 1200 yards, and hits were reported at over 1500 yards.

Confederate Snipers were selected in a manner which has been used to select snipers in most present wars. The best men from each infantry regiment entered into shooting competitions. They were required to hit man-sized boards at 500 yards. The best shooters were given the prized Kerr and Witworth rifles. They then went through extensive training in the use of these rifles.

The snipers were warned never to get within 400 yards of the enemy, but to use their superior range, to keep the enemy at a safe distance.



Kerr & Witworth Rifles

Enfield/Springfield Rifles

Range:

1200+ yards

500 yards.

 

World War I (1914-18)

US Snipers during World War I used modified, and accurized versions of  the standard service rifle the Springfield 1903, equipped with 2 to 4 power scopes. Snipers during the war mostly sniped from behind the MLR, the main trench line. These snipers were Infantrymen taken off the line, and equipped with scoped rifles. With their rifles they could pick the enemy off 3 or 4 trench lines back from the MLR. The marksmanship standard for infantry of the time was to be able to hit a standing man from around 100 yards. The snipers were trained to hit targets from over 500 yards.

World War II (1938-45)

World War II snipers were selected in different manners during the war. I will concentrate on the Marine Corps Snipers trained at Green’s Farm because the documentation of this school and its snipers is the best. There, snipers were instructed in 5 week courses in marksmanship, camouflage, and field craft. They were trained to approach a target using stealth and to eliminate the target from long distances. These snipers were required to hit a moving target at 500 yards, and to hit a stationary target at 1000. They were equipped much the same way as snipers in WWI  were. These snipers used accurized  versions of the M1903 Springfield service rifle, the A1 or A3 variants equipped with 2 or 4 power scopes. Marine Infantry qualified at 500 yards.



M1 Garand

M1903A3

Range

500 yards

1000yards

Ammunition

.30-06

.30-06

Korea (1950-53)

Korea, in the latter part of the war turned into a bogged down war of attrition, looking somewhat like the trench warfare of WWI. This, alongside Korea’s terrain of rolling hills combined to make it prime sniper territory. Sniping tactics in Korea did not change much from the tactics of WWII so I will not elaborate on them. The rifles also remained the same. Snipers in Korea were equipped with 1903A3 Variant Springfield’s, and National Match M1’s(which were used in competition shooting because they were more accurate than the standard M1) Equipped with 4 power scopes(the M1D model). The accuracy of the M1 was not as good as that of the Springfield, due to the need to offset the scope, and have major Eye Relief built-in to the rifle due to the Clip Feed of the M1. These M1’s still were able to reach ranges of 500 yards accurately. In Korea the use of the .50 caliber round for sniping was first seen. M2 Machine Guns mounted with a 10 power scope were able to reach ranges of 2800 yards effectively, Snipers also experimented with .55 Caliber Boy’s antitank rifles modified to take .50 caliber rounds, and mounted with scopes which had the same range as the M2, but was able to be carried by a man whereas the M2’s were limited to fixed positions.


M1D Sniper Model

M1903A3 Sniper

M2 Machine Gun

Range

500 yards

1000 yards

2500 yards

Ammunition

.30-06

.30-06

.50 Caliber

 

Vietnam (1965-75)

Vietnam is the perfect example of how a sniper can be employed during combat. The restrictive ROE and vast open fields and rice paddy’s of Vietnam became prime sniper territory. The Marine Corps and the Army both Fielded Snipers. Army snipers were equipped with accurized versions of the M14 service rifle, accurate out to 700 yards. The Marine Corps fielded snipers equipped with Winchester Model 70 Hunting rifles firing the .30-06 cartridge, and later in the war snipers carried the M40, which fired the standard 7.62x51mm(.308) cartridge both of these rifles had an effective range of over 1000 yards. Also snipers used modified M2 .50 caliber machine guns, fitted with scopes. These were accurate to ranges out to 2500 yards. Normal infantry of the time fired the M16 Assault Rifle, and the enemy fired the AK-47 assault rifle. These rifles were designed for infantry combat which takes place in ranges of only around 200 yards, and can only be fired accurately up to 500 yards. Thus snipers were able to operate with impunity from beyond the range of effective return fire of the enemy.



M16

Winchester 70

M40

M14 Sniper

Range

500 yards

1000 yards

1000 Yards

700 yards

Ammunition

5.56mm

.30-06

7.62x51mm

7.62x51mm






Now through all these wars several things have remained in common among snipers, lets analyze these facts:

A sniper acts independently from standard infantry, not as a part of a unit but in a one or two man team.

This is possible in paintball, most of the time in scenario games, I am alone behind enemy lines trying to accomplish a mission. But you do very little if any tactical good for your team waiting in one spot for an entire game, hoping a target of high-value (such as the opposing general) walks by.

A sniper does not act at random, he selects targets of high value and eliminates them.

Targets of High Value in a military sense are:

  1. Officers:
    • Generals
    • Field Grade officers
    • Company Grade officers
  2. Forward Observers
  3. Crew Served Weaponry:
    • Heavy Machine Guns
    • Artillery Batteries
    • Mortar Crews
  4. Non Commissioned Officers
  5. Radiomen

Targets of High Value in Paintball:

  1. Generals
  2. Tank Crewman (if there are tanks)
  3. Um…. Yeah… that’s all I can think of...

The problem with selecting high value targets in a scenario paintball game is, there are very few. The vast majority of players play independently, not under any command and they do what they want. What officers and team captains there are do not look any different than any other players.

The Sniper fires at targets from beyond the range of return fire by the standard infantry weapons, or from distances that were beyond the training of the normal infantryman.

As you can see from the diagrams of the Sniper Rifles of the Period in comparison to the standard issue infantry weapons, the sniper rifle always has a great deal more range than infantry weapons, and the sniper has been trained to an accuracy standard that is beyond that of standard infantry training.

This is where sniping in paintball fails. All paintball markers except those equipped with the Flatline or Apex systems fire the same distance, around 25 yards or 75 feet. The Flatline will reach ranges of up to 150 ft, but because the ball loses velocity at the same rate as a normal paintball, the chances of getting a break, or a single accurate shot at those ranges are close to zero.

The sniper uses a single accurate shot to take his targets down.

The ammunition expended to kill ratio of a sniper in Vietnam was 1.7 rounds per kill. The average infantryman expended 50,000 rounds per confirmed kill.

It is possible to take targets down with a single shot in paintball. However it is near impossible to eliminate a target with a single shot from beyond the effective range of return fire by the enemy.

A sniper uses camouflage and concealment to hide himself from his enemies to eliminate his targets.

No qualms with this, it can be done. Most every scenario paintball player does it. Using camouflage does not make you sniper.


Now as you can see there are several places where sniping fails in paintball. Now look at the definition of a Sharpshooter:

“A sharpshooter… is a rifleman (proficient or otherwise) who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises”

From SNIPER by Adrian Gilbert


Ok, this looks a little more feasible in the game of paintball than the sniper definition doesn’t it?


For paintball purposes we can strike rifleman, because there are no rifles in paintball.


“who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises”


This sounds feasible. The definition of a sniper that Spec Ops puts forth is one of an “ambush player” that fires from concealment, using camouflage. The problem with the Spec Ops definition of a sniper is that it perfectly describes the definition of a sharpshooter in a military sense.


So we will set forth the definition of a Sharpshooter in paintball. This is what most of you would call a Sniper in paintball.

A sharpshooter takes shots from concealment, shoots at targets as the opportunity arises, and uses a marker that has the same range as everyone else’s. This is not a Sniper. This is a sharpshooter. You will never be a sniper in paintball simple ballistics prevent this from ever happening.


The fact of the matter is if you think you are a sniper in paintball, your terminology is wrong. The definition of a sharpshooter, fits paintball a lot closer that the definition of a sniper. But for those of you who insist that you are still snipers, look at an analogy: You work for a living. Your job is to go to people’s houses and businesses, to pick up their trash and take it to the dump. You drive a Garbage Truck. What would you be called, a Garbage Man, or a Professional Truck Driver?

You would be called a Garbage Man, would you not? As much as you would prefer to be called a Professional Truck Driver, everyone would call you a Garbage Man because it fits what you are doing better than the title Professional Truck Driver does.

The definition of Sharpshooter, or a Designated Marksman fits what you are doing in paintball a whole lot better than Sniper does. Stop fooling yourself.

References:

SNIPER- Adrian Gilbert

One Shot-One Kill- Charles W. Sasser and Craig Roberts

Marine Sniper- Charles Henderson

Authors Note: In my haste of writing this, I may have gotten some minor facts mixed up, or in the wrong place. Please contact me with the correct info if you have something to add, or a correction.

Edited by Snake6 - 11 January 2006 at 7:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2006 at 6:59pm
I think Snake covered it.  He just needs to post the info on his source (the book publication dates and page numbers) for those who still doubt.  As for me, I'll try to remember to call it "sharpshooting" from now on.  Good job Snake, I award you 5 happy clappies.       (Your only the second person to max out at five.  )

Edited Note:  You should add annoying 10 to 15 year olds who think they know everything and are in charge of everyone else on the field because they read the articles at the Spec Ops website to your list of high value targets.


Edited by Mack - 11 January 2006 at 7:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2006 at 7:08pm
Mack, You of all people would be the one I would not expect to see that from.
Cograts to me, I have won a Convert. I will post page numbers whenever I get the chance. However, if you pick up the book SNIPER it goes war by war, in the same cronological order as I did. I guess I could elaborate more into the more current wars, Beruit, Panama, Afganistan, and Iraq(twice) when I get the chance...

*EDIT* Thank you Rambino for making my tabels showup, however you did it.


Edited by Snake6 - 11 January 2006 at 7:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drew is back Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2006 at 11:58pm
Thank you god snake, i have watched videos on sniping, Ultimate Sniper, Pro Sniper, Invisable Warrior... and snake u know what ur talkin bout , if i said anythin else i w ould be repeating u exactly
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stealthy2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2006 at 7:18pm

My hat is off to you snake. I happen to have read the book you are talking about. I've had it for some time now, as well as several others about sniping. Please remember that what he said kindof spells out what you have to do to snipe, but snipers are not limited to sniping. They where used in other ways too. And just because they are a snipers doesn't mean everything they do, or every time they take a shot, they are sniping. Anyways. Nice post. I didn't read it all but from what I did read I agreed with most of if not all of it. Makes me happy that someone knows what they are talking about.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaintballkidEPS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2006 at 8:01pm

Originally posted by RED5MOKE RED5MOKE wrote:

a paintball sniper needs to be just as stealthy and accurate.

now im going to quote an old saying i heard "how come the sniper crowd thinks they are the only ones who need to be stealthy, i guess the rest of us just march around carrying brass and bright flags" or something like that

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2006 at 8:17pm
Originally posted by PaintballkidEPS PaintballkidEPS wrote:

Originally posted by RED5MOKE RED5MOKE wrote:

a paintball sniper needs to be just as stealthy and accurate.

now im going to quote an old saying i heard "how come the sniper crowd thinks they are the only ones who need to be stealthy, i guess the rest of us just march around carrying brass and bright flags" or something like that


That was from Old Soldier....
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So I said, "That is my foot!"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote warbeak2099 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2006 at 8:42pm
Hey that came out great Snake. I agree with Mack, don't call it sniping because it isn't. Calling yourself a paintball sharpshooter, marksman, ambusher, etc. is more accurate. Clearly though, as the role of a sniper is defined, you cannot have one in paintball.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Betterdays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2006 at 9:28pm

From another sniper thread...

Originally posted by BrushHog BrushHog wrote:

What paintball players must understand is there is a huge difference in being a sniper and sniping an opponent.

Yes it is possible to snipe a paintballer, however there will never be a paintball sniper.

Thought it summed it all up rather well.

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I Wanna Title!! Waah!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tecumseh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2006 at 11:14pm

Originally posted by JcKa JcKa wrote:

everybody chill out

Yep, some people seem to spaz out with the word "sniper"

what?
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I have two kinds of wet in my pants

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ninety8freak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2006 at 12:36pm

I hate specops.....brainwashing the 10year olds with there parents money to buy scopes, and other "sniper" stuff.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Wont See Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2006 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by Snake6 Snake6 wrote:

Mack, You of all people would be the one I would not expect to see that from.
Cograts to me, I have won a Convert. I will post page numbers whenever I get the chance. However, if you pick up the book SNIPER it goes war by war, in the same cronological order as I did. I guess I could elaborate more into the more current wars, Beruit, Panama, Afganistan, and Iraq(twice) when I get the chance...

*EDIT* Thank you Rambino for making my tabels showup, however you did it.
Truely a great book.
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