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how to be a sniper?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lilkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2006 at 8:22pm
being a sniper is no fun, just sitting in a tree or on a hill waiting for someone...............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED5MOKE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2006 at 1:52am
u guys have no idea what a paintball sniper is.  its not sitting in one spot they should be the front man by himself no back up recon.  telling his team of movemnts and when in range take out as many people as possible.  if you play woods ball every team needs one of these guys.  I love seeing how many people that play speed ball only thing that woods ball is just laying down and not moving, and try and say thats wat a sniper does.  U guys that say that should really get out and play with some good woods ball players then lets see what you say about it just being a camp fest.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eldiablo_si Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2006 at 4:23pm

[QUOTE=RED5MOKE] its not sitting in one spot they should be the front man by himself no back up recon.

Jesus Christ, you said he had no back up recon.... That's because in your post, he would be the recon himself if he is telling others where people are.  You are stupid..... Now :gtfo:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2006 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by eldiablo_si eldiablo_si wrote:

 :gtfo:

Are you unaware that there are prohibitions against profanity and vulgarity in these forums?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED5MOKE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2006 at 7:55pm
best bet is to have your sniper be a recon/sniper in paintball read the post idiot i said in woods ball thats wat a sniper does
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2006 at 8:06pm
Originally posted by RED5MOKE RED5MOKE wrote:

best bet is to have your sniper be a recon/sniper in paintball read the post idiot i said in woods ball thats wat a sniper does

Recon is toatally differnet from a sniper.

Must we again go back to the words of SR_Crewchief?

Originally posted by SR_Crewchief SR_Crewchief wrote:


First some basics need to be established. The game is paintball and for the purposes of this class it is played in the woods where the terrain dictates that youíll be engaging each other most of the time at between 20 and 25 meters. (In other words close range) It is played most often by 2 opposing sides of roughly equal size. For all intent and purposes this game is modeled on military small unit combat.

Now several you are going "whoo hoo, my kind of sniper country"Öwithout knowing what makes a sniper. Many of you have gone to the dictionary and found a reference saying something to the effect that a sniper is someone who fires from concealment and have used this a your basis for your claim to being one in paintball. That's all well and dandy, except you ignore the rest of the definition.

snip∑er ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sn p r)n. A skilled military shooter detailed to spot and pick off enemy soldiers from a concealed place. One who shoots at other people from a concealed place.

Source: The American Heritageģ Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth EditionCopyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Now youíll note that this expanded definition is still quite general in it scope, after all anyone who squats behind bush to fire is a sniper which is not the case.

So, since the dictionary has not resolved this we must consult the experts for a better definition of what makes a sniper in our chosen environment. It happens that Iíve had the opportunity to do just that from time to time in my 22 years in the Army.

In summary here are the extreme basics of what is an effective sniper:
∑ A superior marksman
∑ Expert knowledge in the art camouflage for concealment
∑ The ability to approach the target without being detected
∑ Engage the target from beyond effective range of return fire
∑ The ability to engage the target without revealing your position
∑ The ability to egress the area after successfully engaging the target without being positively identified and engaged

The first three of these points are possible in the game of paintball, but do not make you a sniper, they just take some training and practice.

Letís look at them one at a time.

A superior marksman

Basically someone whoís shooting skills are well above that of the average player. No big problem here, skill levels very, some people are just plain better than others.

Expert knowledge in the art camouflage for concealment

This one is a little tougher. It takes knowledge of what will fool the eye into not seeing what is really there. Itís still doable though. Trained military have an advantage over the someone whose camouflage skills are solely based on hunting. Not because the non-military hunter is any less skilled but because of who the camouflage is intended to fool. But once armed with the knowledge of what the differences are this isnít even a problem. So, yes this can be effectively applied to paintball.

The ability to approach the target without being detected

This one is a bigger problem. If just taken as being able to move close enough to a player that is already in place to make your shot undetected is very difficult. Since instinctively humans are hunters, our attention is automatically drawn to movement or things that are out of place. Itís takes someone that is extremely skilled in moving undected to pull this one off. But I have seen it done.

I should add to this the ability to setup a position that provides an undetected position from which to shoot that covers an area you expect your opponent to move through. A basic ambush.

Both require an undetected shooting position and can be effectively applied to paintball depending on skill level


The last three points are where the concept of a sniper in paintball fails.

Engage the target from beyond effective range of return fire

No matter what you do, as long as everyone has the same approximate muzzle velocity, everyone has about the same effective range. Yes, that means Flatlines too. While Flatlines do have the ability, do to an aerodynamic backspin, shoot farther than other barrel systems the paintball still loses velocity at the same rate. What this means is that a paintball from a flatline loses the energy to break its shell at the same rate as one fired from a conventional barrel. The advantage of the flatline is initial flat trajectory that paintball has, which allows someone to fire under foliage that would otherwise break the ball. (The first failed point in being an effective sniper)

The ability to engage the target without revealing your position

Since the effective range is around 20-25m means that when you fire you have effectively revealed your general position. What I mean is this. Your shooting from such a close range that either the pop of your ball leaving the barrel or the sound of your bolt cycling (or both) will give your general position away to anyone with average hearing as far away as 40m. Unless you are only engaging 1 or 2 people or are extremely lucking you yourself can now be effectively counted as a mission kill. (The second failed point in being an effective sniper)

The ability to egress the area after successfully engaging the target without being positively identified and engaged

What this means is the ability move to a new shooting position after having engaged a target without being detected and counter-engaged your self. Since itís been demonstrated that you canít effectively engage a target without revealing your initial shooting position and exposing yourself to effective counter fire this one automatically fails. (The third failed point in being an effective sniper)



Now just because you canít effectively apply all of the above tactics of what makes an effective sniper doesnít mean that the first 3 listed canít be applied to paintball. Do they make you a sniper? No. But they do give you the ability to setup an effective close ambush. Just a word of advice here, bring along several friends and you might even be effective at it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote diedonimpact Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2006 at 9:18pm
guys calm down. seriously with all you guys on your periods, this is making the forum a very unfun place. who cares if someone wants to be a sniper HIS CHOICE not yours. hell maybe hes even good at whatever he considers a sniper
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duckman_162 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2006 at 9:46pm

Originally posted by diedonimpact diedonimpact wrote:

guys calm down. seriously with all you guys on your periods, this is making the forum a very unfun place. who cares if someone wants to be a sniper HIS CHOICE not yours. hell maybe hes even good at whatever he considers a sniper

i agree theres to many paintballer out there that act like pricks and comon stop using the word "noob" its offensive and it makes you sound kind of slow in the head.

ive been playing paintball for over 6 years and i run a paintball course (bushball/woodsball) and i have never felt the need to call someone a noob or newbie because i want them to have fun not feel out of place and just hange back and want to leave.

god dammit sorry for the rant.

for the acttual thread reply: Ive seen alot of people around here who when playing they'll disapear and only carry those lovelly 10 round tubes and they dont alway get a kill(s) but if there brave enough to go out there and play with 20 shots well heck id call them a paintball sniper!

now how many people did i p!ss off? 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dead-eye_tippy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2006 at 10:16pm
All these guys are right. Noob is offensive. And we aren't dictating the idea that military and paintball snipers are the same.  I have played with Proball Speedball teammates and they have been painted by people I consider snipers.  Taking them out from a farther range from a indisclosed location.  Angel G-7, came up the road, a guy sat in the ditch and painted him right in the head.  Angelman was still looking for him 5 minutes later...  Now thats a sniper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drew08 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2006 at 3:12am

as a matter of fact today i watched a video on The Ultimate Sniper. I am training to be a Navy SEAL, and in paintball u can complete most of the components needed to be a sniper, but it is imposible in paintball to engage a target beyond the point of returned fire(unless ur cheating). but in the words of the most famous sniper in the world, who was part of the marine sniper force in Vietnam, the three main components to being a sniper are 1.Marksmanship 2.feildcraft3.tactics

u can fairly have the marksmenship, feildcraft means using ur terrain to your advantage whether it is a ghille suit or finding an effective vantage point to spot and drop your target, which is almost acheivable in paintball, and tactics is very easy to use in paintball.

the fact of the matter is that you can "sniper" in paintball, but not to the expertese and skill of that of a REAL sniper take my advice

and thank you god snake for knowin what u know, and before hand on this post my friend wrote the thing about there not being a sniper in paintball so disachnowladge my previou post. thanx



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2006 at 7:52am
Originally posted by duckman_162 duckman_162 wrote:


for the acttual thread reply: Ive seen alot of people around here who when playing they'll disapear and only carry those lovelly 10 round tubes and they dont alway get a kill(s) but if there brave enough to go out there and play with 20 shots well heck id call them a paintball sniper!


I have played pump, stock class, and with  only a pistol. I have gone onto the field  with only a 30rds, a pistol and two twelve grams. I am not a sniper, i am a paintball player. But in your definition that makes me one.

I find anyone calling someone that is playing paintball a sniper, or claiming to a sniper highly  disrespectful to those real military snipers that have fought, shed thier blood and died for thier country. You are dishonoring them by even attempting to claim some kid with a paintball marker is a sniper. Find some other term for you tactics, maybe a call them a really good player IDK....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skillet42565 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2006 at 8:14am
I have a WONDERFUL idea... instead of calling it a "paintball sniper" lets call him a "squad marksman" since that makes more sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The_GOAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2006 at 3:40pm

Originally posted by rossy11223 rossy11223 wrote:

Wow....you guys sure do know how to welcome a new member to the forum. I'm sure he'll be back...

anyone seen "sinper" since his thread

that thread was fun for me i was posting every other post

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JcKa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2006 at 3:09pm
andrew (drew08).  We all know you wrote that post.  And are you really in Navy Seal Training at 15 years old?  lol, calm down with that, ur seriously obsessed. That video is seriously annoying btw, but yes the triangle of snipin thing would be a useful thing to know how to quote. 

BTW, the general stance of sniping in paintball is that it can really only exist in MilSim Woodsball, as speedball it is not only impossible it is unnecessary.  Two defs for sniper:

"a marksman who shoots at people from a concealed place"...
-That is incredibly general.  If you define being a sniper as this statement, then yes, you could be a sniper, both in speedball and in woodsball, or wherever.

"
The traditional definition of a sniper is an infantry soldier especially skilled in field craft and marksmanship who kills selected enemies from concealment with a rifle at large distances. Typically and ideally, a proficient sniper approaches an unaware enemy presence, uses a single bullet per target, and withdraws without being seen"
-This definition, which is more precise, is the one used most often as it is found in the most trusted dictionary.  On the lines of this definition, there is one catch: 'at large distances...'.  That part of the definition, although it is unclear how they define large distances, is the one that would most limit your ability to be a "sniper" as paintballs are lightweight, semi hollow projectiles that cannot reach the distances or have the accuracy that would fit the general conception of 'large distances...'.

So yes, there is sniping and "snipers" in paintball, but it really depends on your definition.  If you're thinking that you just pick ppl off from far off, like in a spot where they cannot readily shoot you back, then no, you cannot be that.  But if you're thinking you'll set up, use systems to improve distance, consistency, and accuracy, and dedicate yourself to marksmanship, then yes, you could achieve the status of "sniper", but would that still be arguable?  Yes.

Andrew, just admit you were wrong.  No one is gonna kill ya.

*disacknowledge



Edited by JcKa - 08 January 2006 at 3:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2006 at 3:17pm
Yet agian I revert to my original post:

I find anyone calling someone that is playing paintball a sniper, or claiming to a sniper highly disrespectful to those real military snipers that have fought, shed thier blood and died for thier country. You are dishonoring them by even attempting to claim some kid running around in the woods with a paintball marker is a sniper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JcKa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2006 at 3:22pm
No one is attempting to disrespect them.  They deserve  infinite respect for their sacrifice, dedication, and selflishness for everything they've done for this country, but to use the word to describe is to say you're a skilled marksman, not a man who dedicated his life to serving and protecting.  I say this with all due respect, but it is only a word used to describe a marksman.  If you asked the men that served what they were, would they say they were snipers, or would they say "proud marksmen of the U.S. military"?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drew08 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2006 at 6:17pm

say im <poopy> wrong about what jack? oh nvr mnd i know what ur talkin bout, aight so i was typing at 3 in the morning give me a break. i was tired i can't spell anyways let alone at 3 in da morning

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Edited by Rambino - 08 January 2006 at 6:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Uberhamster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2006 at 6:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drew08 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2006 at 6:23pm

<more useless poopiness>



Edited by Rambino - 08 January 2006 at 7:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2006 at 6:30pm
Originally posted by Snake6 Snake6 wrote:

Yet agian I revert to my original post:

I find anyone calling someone that is playing paintball a sniper, or claiming to a sniper highly disrespectful to those real military snipers that have fought, shed thier blood and died for thier country. You are dishonoring them by even attempting to claim some kid running around in the woods with a paintball marker is a sniper.


I have to disagree with you on this one Snake.  The people who disrespect the sacrifices of the military are the folks from hate groups like this who picket the funerals of servicemen who died in Iraq to forward their agenda.

If little Billie Ghillie wants to upgrade his BE Talon with a 30 inch PVC barrel, duct tape his grandma's plastic plants to his Power Ranger jammies, and go hide in the woods during paintball games hoping someone comes by for him to shoot, while claiming this makes him a sniper, that's fine.  It's not disrepectful to anyone, kind of funny, but not disrespectful.

Every one who enlists in the active duty military takes the following oath:

I,(insert full name here), do solemly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States* against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed overme, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

*Emphasis added.

The constitution protects the right to freedom of speech, whether I happen to agree with the speech in question or not.  Any military member, or former member, that takes that oath seriously would not be offended by the fact that someone claimed to be a sniper, nor would they view it as disrespectful.  They might disagree, they may even state/explain their disagreement, but given the differences between paintball and combat, I can not see how anyone would take the matter seriously enough to consider it disrepectful.

The difference here that I'm trying to point out, and the reason that I included the link above, is as follows:  When you claim a title, such as sniper, to be your own, for your own personal reasons, it may be a little silly, but it doesn't hurt or disrespect anyone.  When you use the death of another individual, to forward your own agenda at the expense of pain caused to his survivors, that is disrepect.
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