Tippmann Pneumatics Inc. Homepage
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Woodsball/Scenario Players Post

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 7>
Poll Question: Is there a form of sniping in woodsball?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
1303 [26.16%]
3594 [72.17%]
83 [1.67%]
You can not vote in this poll

Author
nunrleft View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 704
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nunrleft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2005 at 2:08am
No snipers in speedball or woodsball, but there are in scenario paintball.
www.mnmilitia.com
ME
Our Forum
Back to Top
-=Kasutik=- View Drop Down
Member
Member

Strike 1 - Filter dodging

Joined: 09 December 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 66
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote -=Kasutik=- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2005 at 7:31pm

NO

Pneumatic Automag, x-valve, ULE trigger kit, Chimera frame, q loader, freak barrel system. Batteries are for the WEAK.
Back to Top
Cirabisi2009 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 June 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 195
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cirabisi2009 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2005 at 8:33pm

depends if your talking about actual snipers, a sniper in the military is used to find targets, and gather intel on the opposing team, the only time a sniper should be shooting is for a high priority target, like a general (  we play by points and the general is worth the most). another thing is that snipers arent big on the battle they prefer to avoid big fire fights.

So you could say snipers exist, or you can say they dont exist, In the february 2006 edition of APG magazine , there is an article about being a sniper in paintball.



Edited by Cirabisi2009
98% of ion owners think ions are better than any high end gun. If you would like to bonus ball these idiots put this in your sig.
Back to Top
rednekk98 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Dead man...

Joined: 02 July 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2005 at 10:57pm
I can't possibly argue that there are people who try to play the role and call themselves snipers. However, no matter the setting, the standard military definitions can't apply to paintball.

For thoese of you saying it's just moving for a better angle without being seen and shooting, I have no clue how that can be considered sniping. It's exactly what everybody else does. I think we can all agree that people who try to sniper are attempting to do something different, wether it be working away from the team, hiding in ambush, scouting or attempting long range lob-shots. Saying that anyone who shoots from hiding is a sniper is a cop-out, since that isn't what people who call themselves snipers mean anyways.

The military style 2 person sniper team idea isn't particularly effective. In a military style sniper team you'd have a sniper and a spotter. The spotter is equipped with a standard type weapon with more firepower just in case, and a spotting scope of some type and is tasked with identifying targets and figuring ballistic data for the sniper to take the shot. The sniper has a percision rifle equipped with an optical sight that has an effective range that is farther than a standard issue weapon.

Now apply that to paintball. Say you have a "spotter" with a smaller high speed marker, like an A-5 RT and a "sniper" equipped with an accurate pump or semi, possibly with a sight or even a flatline for a bit more range. Now what exactly does the spotter do? He's not using a spotting scope or binoculars to pick targets for the sniper, since if he can hit them they're well within visual range. He's not making a wind call or figuring modified elevation adjustments for shooting uphill or down. So he's pretty much sitting there providing extra eyes for the sniper and firerpower for WHEN he gets in trouble. The "sniper" is waiting for a good shot, hopefully at a squad leader or somebody worth points in a scenario game, or somebody who would have some sort of effect in a firefight, like someone with a god gun or some such thing. He takes the shot and then what? He's just fired a low velocity, probably brightly colored projectile from inside of 50 yards. Somebody's going to see where that ball came from, or hear it. Also, they can see how it splattered and figure out where to start looking from there. Next they scan for likely hiding spots in that direction inside paintball range, or look for funny bushes with boots and barrels. If the sniper can hit them, even if he has a flatline or really accurate setup, they can hit him, even if it takes a few more balls. The spot him and light him up, or pound likely spots with paint until he tries to escape and is shot, fires back and is spotted, or gets hit.

Doesn't sound like they did a heck of a lot of good, even if they did take somebody out. Seems like if they had just both opened up with guns with a high rate of fire, and started by focusing on important targets, they could have made more eliminations, before they were themselves eliminated. Sounds like they'd also have been able to do more damage if they'd had more people for a functional ambush.

Now seriously, what kind of military sniper takes a shot inside of 50 yards? Snipers avoid engagements inside of 200 yards if they can since thats about where the human eye can detect someone who is camoflauged. Shooting from that distance would be suicidal. Snipers fire at longer ranges to avoid visual detection and to be able to get a way unseen, before the enemy can get close enough to see them and blast them all to crap. A paintball "sniper" just doesn't have the range.

I've played in my share of small woods games of 3-20 people, and scenario games ranging from 25-800 players. Never once have I seen anybody effectivly use sniper tactics. I've seen plenty try, and even occasionally hit someone, but never make any kind of differance to the outcome of a firefight, much less an attack. The only thing the "sniper" crowd has going for them is scaring new players into inaction because they think snipers can be effective.

I once led a group of mainly new players off to clear off a trail leading to an important base in a scenario game. We took some fire from the woods and they all froze up and were afraid to move foreward, afraid some magical invisable sniper would plink them with a single shot from a hidden place and from too far away for them to shoot back. Having a decent clue of how far the balls were coming from, I stepped full out into the middle of the trail trying to bait the "sniper" into shooting. He made an effort, I stood there, dodging balls and telling the newbs where he was. He was fireing with a flatline from long range, I actually managed to catch a ball and bring it back, showed it to the newbs to ease their fears. I found a few who weren't terrified, had them provide cover and quickly eliminated the "sniper" through fire and manuver. The same group of newbs during the course of the rest of the day took about 30 seconds to eliminate other "snipers". It never effected any mission, and definatly not the outcome of the game. Just one of many antecdotes I can pull up where sniping didn't do jack.

If anybody out there can give me a descrition of what a paintball sniper does that is signifigantly different from the average woodsball player, AND effective. I'm willing to debate it.
Back to Top
jerseypaint View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 November 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3649
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jerseypaint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2005 at 11:35pm
definition of a sniper is "A skilled military shooter detailed to spot and pick off enemy soldiers from a concealed place."

Now this is totally possible to do in paintball, all u need to do is hide and shot at people from one spot. Yet the military only is introduced in paintball through scenario. So by definition snipers do exist and dont exist in paintball. And i do believe it is a skilled tactic that u would need alot of training to try and use only 1 shot to elimate sum1 so ur position is kept secret and that it is useful if the opposing team gets elimated trying to find the player. Yet i myslef wuld hate to take that position for there is no adreniline rush and i cant sit in 1 place the whole game
Back to Top
Knight of Fire View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 593
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Knight of Fire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2005 at 12:23am
I know Im going to tick off alot on this but heres my view. Are there snipers in paintball? Yes. but not in the Long distance military sense. For one thing, Snipers are not found in Speedball. Too small for that.

So whats a guy to do? Well lets put it this way, In spec ops paintball deffinition, the hard charging Ambush guy is the Dagger, but hes ment to be the one that deals the final blow by flanking, which means hes probably gona be the vissible guy. His job is to Either deal the final blow or cause the last few into a panic and distract them long enough for the rest of the squad or team to finish the other team or squad.

The Sniper, sometimes called the ghost flanker or Ambush sniper however is the stealth factor, hes used for one of several things, the 1st is a defensive way, for this it may help if the player brings some Mines that can be activated by a wire or remote, Why do this? because once the other team realizes theres paintball mines there. they slow down, perfect for when a Strong side offense is used and when the sniper is covering the weakside. The more the sniper and any defense at base hold up the attackers, the better for offense team to get the flag or Objective. The second part of this defense is the sniper himself. If he keeps it to 1 to 2 shots and at a rang and spot he know he can hit the opponet, the better. With this and some skills and patiance and moving only when needed. This slows down the other team, because now they start shooting and wasting ammo on every bush, tree, bunker or fallen log around them in hopes of finding the guy. this is more along the lines of an Ambush sniper also, He goes about mid field, lays a mini ambush then retreats and sets up another mini ambush and keeps falling back, His main object is slowing the enemy down but eliminations are an extra, If he can pull them into range of the defense at the base area, thats when the enemy will be in trouble, becase by now they are probably low on ammo or forgot to reload and mostlikely are in the open. by the time they relize their mistake, they got to worry about 3-5 guys maybe in small games behind a good defense area probbaly in a 2 floor building and to top it off Probbaly got a good view from above and will force the enemy to huddle right next to bunker their at. enough time for the sniper to circle around and take them by surprise again either elimenating them or distracting them from the defense players.

The other form is the ghost flanker, the offense version of the sniper, He stays wide from the team and when the team gets into a fire fight, mostlikely a 50 50 fight where theres no clear advantage and it boils down to both sides tradding paint, this guy flanks them wide and by surprise, Once again Diverted attention, mostlikely going to lose a few in the initial ambush, and will be in a panic possibly.

Remember range is not a factor, Its more along the lines of stealth and quit ness, you don't need a 18 inch barrel unlees your using an AGD Tac one with Long bowkit just to prevent the rounds from smacking into the spring fed magizine

but I know alot will ignore me on this and will just call me crazy...
Team Wardog -team captain
Back to Top
Mack View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Has no impulse! control

Joined: 13 January 2004
Location: 2nd Circle
Status: Offline
Points: 9815
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2005 at 4:29am
^^^Somebody has been visiting the SpecOps forum.
Back to Top
Knight of Fire View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 593
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Knight of Fire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2005 at 12:19pm
I said "spec ops paintball definitions" didn't I?
Ironically enough, last I checked in there was about 2weeks ago (last time I even visited here for actually posting was about 3+ months ago... at least)
Team Wardog -team captain
Back to Top
A-5 Command View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 November 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 662
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A-5 Command Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2005 at 3:19pm

lol this thread is never going to end you started something buddy, again.

Yes, sniper is not the propper word to use for that style of playing, if your refering to the military definition, obviously. But then again if you think about it their would be no such thing as a rifleman or a machine gunner or an enginere in scenario paintball either. My point is people take these terms too seriously, its just a word they use to describe their playing style.

But i believe their is a position that people call a sniper just because they think that because they both wear ghillie suits and hide and wait for shots they are both snipers.

I prefer to call the position sharp shooter, just to not piss people off.

A-5
Flatline
E-Grip
Tapco T-6 stock
JCS Duel Trigger
JCS Universal BiPod
Core Remote
88ci/4500psi Crossfire
R-5 Hopper
Apex Barrel
Hot Shot red dot
Lapco offset
Spec Ops A5-A2 grip
Back to Top
Knight of Fire View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 593
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Knight of Fire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2005 at 6:33pm
Yea but Why beat around the bush? Granted as agrred, Due to velocity limits, the traditional thinking of sniper is gone. It is not possible to do that, no matter how much elevation, how well you match the paint to barrel, everything, Theres no way you can Shoot really far. That is why a paintball sniper role is more for mid range ambushes and wide stealth flanks.
Team Wardog -team captain
Back to Top
monty_sniper View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
ions are better than any high end gun

Joined: 17 September 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 600
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monty_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2005 at 7:34pm
ok, just the idiot that started this, just go sit and a corner and leave.
98% of ion owners think ions are better than any high end gun. If you would like to bonus ball these idiots put this in your sig.
Proud owner of 3 guns and counting.
Back to Top
jw1961 View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 01 December 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 94
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jw1961 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2005 at 8:43pm
NO, even if you tried there are to many branches that you would hit.
Back to Top
Attila View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
2 language strike, 1/17

Joined: 06 September 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 148
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Attila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2005 at 9:47pm
Omg!!! Nooooo, not the SNIPING POLL!!!!
Hey! Are Those My BALLS On Your FACE?!
Back to Top
Knight of Fire View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 593
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Knight of Fire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2005 at 10:26pm
Originally posted by jw1961 jw1961 wrote:

<FONT size=7>NO, even if you tried there are to many branches that you would hit.

Soft cover may be a problem While one can eventually shot through it (after either unloading a large volume [ for bushes just to get one through] or just shooting till the impedding foliage is gone) youll have given away your position, thats why its said that when playing ambush sniper roles do not take that shot unless you are 100% sure its going to hit the guy and break on him, you want him and his buddys in a panic so you have some more seconds for the ambush before you need to move away and set up another ambush.
Team Wardog -team captain
Back to Top
Mack View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Has no impulse! control

Joined: 13 January 2004
Location: 2nd Circle
Status: Offline
Points: 9815
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2006 at 12:24am
Originally posted by Knight of Fire Knight of Fire wrote:

Yea but Why beat around the bush? Granted as agrred, Due to velocity limits, the traditional thinking of sniper is gone. It is not possible to do that, no matter how much elevation, how well you match the paint to barrel, everything, Theres no way you can Shoot really far. That is why a paintball sniper role is more for mid range ambushes and wide stealth flanks.


I think you're on the right track, the part in green I agree with completely and the part in red I mostly disagree with.  This is why:

  • Traditional military style sniper's do not exist in paintball due to the aforementioned range limitations.
  • If someone wears a ghillie suit and does the mid range ambushes and wide stealth flanking moves metioned above how does that make them different from anyone else who hides in the woods and ambushes and flanks?
    • The answer is that it doesn't.
    • Since they are no different from anyone else who uses basic tactics, there is no justification for any title other than paintball player (or rifleman, for those that take their mil-sim paintball seriously).
    • They can call themselves a sniper if they like and it makes them feel special, but no one else is going to take them seriously (although a few other players might agree that they are indeed "special").
  • However, even though I consider myself to be a card carrying member of the anti-sniper crowd, I'm a little less rabid in my beliefs.
    • I acknowledge the possibility of paintball snipers existing under certain circumstances based on aspects in the playing styles I've noted anong woodsball opponents and team mates.
    • If someone posesses and demonstrates the skills to use the terrain, the available cover, the characteristics of their specific marker and their shooting skills in a manner that regularly allows them to make eliminations with minimal firing (one shot one elimination is best, but this is not always possible with paintballs) and escape without having to fear return fire or the counter deployment of their opponents I will consider that individual to be a paintball sniper.
      • Example:  Little Billy Ghillie sets up with his Flatline equipped A5 under a thick bush with branches that almost touch the ground.  He is on one side of a drywash with steep sides and is watching a trail on the other bank.  He observes the movements of the opposing team through this area and calls the information to his team captain via radio.  Then he sees the target he's been waiting for.  (It could be the opposing team captain or their best player, but in this case it's the guy with the full auto that's been pounding them with killer suppressive fire all day.)  Billy calls in their location then he takes careful aim, and since the range isn't all that great, manages to break his first shot on his target's arm.  The other's accompanying Billy's unfortunate target scramble for cover.  Billy decides to crawl backwards, keeping the bush between him and his opponents.  He knows he's done quite a bit to help his team already and doesn't want to blow it by getting eliminated.  His plan is to ghost the other team and keep his team informed as to their location until they can be eliminated.  Billy's earned the right to call himself a paintball sniper for the following reasons:
        • He eliminated his target from a hidden location without being detected.
        • If they do locate him (likely-Flatlines are loud) and return fire, he is not within their effective range.  He used the characteristics of his flatline barrel to fire under the intervening cover, while their return fire breaks harmlessly on the bushes as he leaves.
        • If they spot him, he does not have to immediately fear that they will maneuver on him because he postioned himself in a manner that insures the terrain interferes with his selected opponents movements (the drywash).  This gives him time to depart safely.
Wow, I got long-winded.  My point is, if paintball snipers exist, there is a lot more to it than merely hiding in the bushes and surprising the first victim that walks by.
Back to Top
A-5 Command View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 November 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 662
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A-5 Command Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2006 at 2:18am

haha flatlines arent that accurate, but i know what you mean, those are some good points. Again i think people are still using the word sniper in paintball too literly, and that in an attempt to say their is no such thing they have to turn to the military definition and relate it to paintball.

Its just the title to a playing style, jeez

90% of woodsballers, even the ones who work as a team, attack the enemy with fast moving flanking movements and in large firefights. Most people dont have the patience to set up repeated small stage ambushes and wait for the perfect shot. I think someone who masters these skills and developes the patience to do so in the aid of their team (defending in CTF) deserves the right to call themselves a paintball sniper. NOT a freaking marine corps sniper, a PAINTBALL sniper, or stealthy sharp shooter.

A-5
Flatline
E-Grip
Tapco T-6 stock
JCS Duel Trigger
JCS Universal BiPod
Core Remote
88ci/4500psi Crossfire
R-5 Hopper
Apex Barrel
Hot Shot red dot
Lapco offset
Spec Ops A5-A2 grip
Back to Top
Omega00 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 January 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 21
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omega00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2006 at 3:16am
I know I'm probably gonna be burnt for this, but oh well. I stand up for what I believe in. I like all the forms of paintball, but Woodsball is my pick of the lot. I believe that there are snipers in paintball. There are true snipers, then there are the ones who think they know what they're doing. I have 5 years of 'ballin under my harness, 3 of which has been spent sniping. I'll say that for those who think that a guy who sets in the woods, doesn't move from that spot all game, and shoots guys in the back from 20 feet away is a sniper, they have no idea. Sniping is an art. One thing I've learned is that a sniper who shoots and stays in that spot is a dead sniper. Sure, paintball markers don't shoot like rifles, but you got to have respect for a guy who is able to smack someone from 30+ yards away. If he did it to you, I bet you'd feel differently. Obviously some of these guys haven't had it happen to them, and I haven't either, but I have done it before. When you're hit, and you don't hear the shot or know where it came from, then you've been sniped. I recently bought a 98 Custom that I dropped a couple hundred on. It's now my new sniper marker, and I'll say It can reach out and touch. A true paintball sniper is hard to come by, but once you play with one, you'll see.
"He who makes a beast of himself, gets rid of the pain of being a man."


98 Custom

-18" Inter.
-M82A1 Mag
-Weaver HG
-M249 Stock
-Mount
-40mm Red Dot
-Feed Neck
Back to Top
hybrid-sniper View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

I feel violated.

Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10102
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hybrid-sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2006 at 3:18am
Where's OS and/or Darur...
Back to Top
eliminator View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Drinks from the Toilet

Joined: 18 June 2005
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 667
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eliminator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2006 at 3:54am
Originally posted by Omega00 Omega00 wrote:

I know I'm probably gonna be burnt for this, but oh well. I stand up for what I believe in. I like all the forms of paintball, but Woodsball is my pick of the lot. I believe that there are snipers in paintball. There are true snipers, then there are the ones who think they know what they're doing. I have 5 years of 'ballin under my harness, 3 of which has been spent sniping. I'll say that for those who think that a guy who sets in the woods, doesn't move from that spot all game, and shoots guys in the back from 20 feet away is a sniper, they have no idea. Sniping is an art. One thing I've learned is that a sniper who shoots and stays in that spot is a dead sniper. Sure, paintball markers don't shoot like rifles, but you got to have respect for a guy who is able to smack someone from 30+ yards away. If he did it to you, I bet you'd feel differently. Obviously some of these guys haven't had it happen to them, and I haven't either, but I have done it before. When you're hit, and you don't hear the shot or know where it came from, then you've been sniped. I recently bought a 98 Custom that I dropped a couple hundred on. It's now my new sniper marker, and I'll say It can reach out and touch. A true paintball sniper is hard to come by, but once you play with one, you'll see.
i like ur ideas. seriously. i wis most of the people on this fourm where this well behaved...
__||__
[        }------ =() =()
//'   ||
R THOSE MY BALLS ON UR FACE
Back to Top
sneaky_sniper View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar
Guested - inappropriate link 01/13

Joined: 05 September 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1325
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sneaky_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2006 at 4:56am
im thinken sombody is gunna get stabbed in this..., i believe in a certain form of the "sniper" in paintball but i dont wanna get into this argument, sooo ya...
[IMG]http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/sneaky_sniper/Invader_Zim.jpg">
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 7>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.03

This page was generated in 0.217 seconds.