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How to Lose your Country

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2005 at 1:21am

Originally posted by TheDarkRealms TheDarkRealms wrote:


I agree with you on the Legal immigrants, the ones that pay taxes, have "jumped through all the hoops", they are not the ones that I have a problem with.

On a side point - many illegal immigrants pay taxes, mostly social security taxes, because they are working on fake/stolen papers.  These illegal immigrants are paying millions of dollars every year into social security, and they are NOT eligible for SS benefits.  Several economists have stated that we have illegal immigrants to thank for the continued existence of social security.  By some worst-case estimates SS would have collapsed by now without illegal immigrants.

And, of course, the illegal immigrants that pay no taxes because they are working without papers are mostly making less than minimum wage, and wouldn't be paying very much in taxes anyway if they were working those jobs legally.  So not much tax revenue is lost there either.

The whole "they aren't paying taxes" part is seriously overstated on a regular basis.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheDarkRealms Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2005 at 2:10am
Originally posted by Panda Man Panda Man wrote:


Originally posted by TheDarkRealms TheDarkRealms wrote:

Originally posted by Panda Man Panda Man wrote:

Hell any "Immigrant"
who works pay taxes, so in fact he does Contribute to Society. So as I
see it, continue to sip your lemonade and have "Juan" Shine your Car
and gripe about how this country is going to Hell.

I agree with you on the Legal immigrants, the ones that pay taxes,
have "jumped through all the hoops", they are not the ones that I have
a problem with. Itís all the other ones. The race doesn't matter its
the attitude that does. To become an American is what I would want
Legal immigrants to be. Not a legal Mexican or Asian, or European, or
African, or whoever else.

So if you had a chance to get a second chance at life for you, and your
family you would abide by "that" countries laws, or would you do basic
human insticts and try to find a spot where you could feel safe and
secure amd most likely succeed but the only thing you have to live with is Bigotry(sp).


It is interesting that you would bring up a point like that. And actually yes I have lived in other countries and yes I have abided by their rules. Did you know that in Saudi Arabia if you look a woman in the eye especially another mans wife they can arrest you?? Probably not. In Saudi, in a city called Riyadh (hint for those that want to look it up, its the capital), there is an intersection called chop chop square. Every week on Friday they chop off hands and even heads Iíve heard on occasion. Do you know what they would do with you if they found you in the area at that time? They drag you to the square, right up in front so that when they do chop something off the blood will splat you in the face. They like to show us how they discipline people.
That is one of the countries Iíve lived in. So yes, we did abide by their laws. We also stayed in groups of 3 or more because it wasnít safe for one US Troop to go out alone. Try being a US (or foreign for that matter) woman that country, having to get all dressed up, but hey feel lucky. US women over there donít have to wear the head dresses anymore, so at least they can show their face. But they still have to be with a couple of guys just to ensure they donít get beaten or worse for not following the muslim religion/culture completely.
Why donít you ask someone if they have experience before you get rude. And yes your spelling was correct.

Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by TheDarkRealms TheDarkRealms wrote:

I agree with you on the Legal immigrants, the ones that pay taxes, have "jumped through all the hoops", they are not the ones that I have a problem with.


On a side point - many illegal immigrants pay taxes, mostly social security taxes, because they are working on fake/stolen papers. These illegal immigrants are paying millions of dollars every year into social security, and they are NOT eligible for SS benefits. Several economists have stated that we have illegal immigrants to thank for the continued existence of social security. By some worst-case estimates SS would have collapsed by now without illegal immigrants.


And, of course, the illegal immigrants that pay no taxes because they are working without papers are mostly making less than minimum wage, and wouldn't be paying very much in taxes anyway if they were working those jobs legally. So not much tax revenue is lost there either.


The whole "they aren't paying taxes" part is seriously overstated on a regular basis.



Please check my entire statement, before responding.
Originally posted by TheDarkRealms TheDarkRealms wrote:


I have Hispanic friends, itís not the race thatís the problem, its people that have the attitude that they deserve what they don't fight/pay/live for.

So some pay SS, but what good does that do us anyway? Are you expecting SS to be around when you will need it? I nope not. It probably wonít and I donít count on it. I think of it as an investment in my grandparents and if they are lucky my parents. US citizens still sign up for the draft, pay state and federal taxes on all levels, and are or rather should be involved in the countries political decisions. At least Legal immigrants pay all the required taxes. And as Hades put it earlier:
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

I dont see the problem at my San Deigo Condo that I share with my father to be able to go to any street corner and hire, Jose for 20 bucks and lunch, to do my yardwork.

That guy doesnít pay taxes. And yes I have been there and seen the hispanics on so many street corners waiting for work like this. Do I blame people like Hades for being capitalists and paying Jose $20 instead of getting a lawn company or doing it himself. No he paid taxes for his money just like I do. After all why should he care if the government has decided not to. There are just those of us that do believe that to work in our country everyone should be doing it legally. And yes I am just as against drug dealers as I am this.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2005 at 2:33am

Originally posted by TheDarkRealms TheDarkRealms wrote:


It is interesting that you would bring up a point like that. And actually yes I have lived in other countries and yes I have abided by their rules. [pedantic obvious obvious observations about Saudi deleted]

Way to completely miss the point of Panda's post...

(And, BTW, living on a military base, in a diplomatic compound, or similar situations is only marginally more useful than staying at the local Club Med.  If you were merely stationed in Saudi I wouldn't go around saying that you "lived there".  Just a thought.)


Originally posted by TheDarkRealms TheDarkRealms wrote:

I have Hispanic friends, itís not the race thatís the problem, its people that have the attitude that they deserve what they don't fight/pay/live for.

Why do you say that there is this entitlement?  Most illegals I know are perfectly aware that they are breaking the rules, but simply, as a factual matter (like Hades said), would rather break an immigration rule here than live "legally" in the craphole they came from.

And speaking of entitlement - how is it that most Americans feel so entitled to have their country to themselves, just because they happened to be born here (through no merit of theirs)?

Person A happens to be born in the US, Person B happens to be born in Crapholeland.  How does that make Person B more entitled to the benefits of living in the US than Person A?  Instead of asking what Person B did to earn the right to be in the US, shouldn't you ask what Person A did to earn that right?

Quote So some pay SS, but what good does that do us anyway? Are you expecting SS to be around when you will need it? I nope not.

Now that's a copout if there ever was.

You:  They don't pay taxes.

Me:  Yes they do.

You:  It doesn't matter that they pay taxes, because taxes aren't important.

Quote At least Legal immigrants pay all the required taxes.

But you just said that didn't matter.  And like I said, many legal immigrants acually pay LESS taxes than illegal immigrants.

Quote There are just those of us that do believe that to work in our country everyone should be doing it legally. And yes I am just as against drug dealers as I am this.

Isn't that a bit dogmatic?  Particularly for someone living in a country that was founded by a bunch of traitors and criminals?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkSIDEofMOON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2005 at 3:09am

wow some members here are...just...i don't know...ignorant.

1)  SS is a problem because of the baby boomers that are going to be using it in the coming years.  that is MILLIONS of people using it.  what happens to US in the future is that we will have to pay MORE to support those people that will live LONGER and use HIGHER medication/technology to stay alive.  unless something is done. 

2)  i can count the number of immigrants at work, almost all the **edited**ty jobs back there they do, why?  because are lazy ass americans will not get payed $7 an hour to wash dishes, clean **edited**, and do other stuff that is not worth the pay.

3)  god damnit say the word right!!!  MUSLIM.  **edited**.  and no it is not the religion that is the problem it is the extremists that are the problem.  they are too stubborn to work for a common goal and would rather kill eachother.  you think christianity is good?  look back in history and tell me they have not spilled more blood than the muslim's.  you have to remember, the Muslim faith is still new and going through many changes, and this is all before our eyes.  christianity changed long before the Muslim religion was brought about.  so please don't be a dumb american and go about saying it is the religion that is the problem...because if it is their religion that is the problem then it every single religion's problem.

4)  so from some of the people on this board, you want to come to Arizona in the summer time...115degrees...and work outside from 4am to 5pm...hunched over picking fruits and veggies for little money and no benefits?  please, you are a **edited**ing lier if you said yes.  prices would increase way beyound $8 a head for lettuce. 

5)  and you think you have earned a right to say you are american?  why.  tell me one good reason.  you were born here.  that's it.  you lived in another country.  that's it.  the real americans are the ones that stood up for something and risked their lives to make a difference.  the real americans are the ones in iraq fighting for a war they shouldn't be fighting so that we can sit here and debate about immigration.  the real americans gave their blood and lives for us.  i was born in america, i love america, but i have not earned the right to say that someone from another country trying to make their life and their families life a little better does not deserve a chance.

6)  reforms are needed to solve this.  easier citizenship.  worker's visas.  and less ignorance and more cooperation are needed.  if you don't want to help and only **edited** about what is the problem, you my friend, are the problem.

 

***end rant***

 

-barriga

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rambino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2005 at 3:22am

Welcome to the forum.  Our poor language filter works plenty hard, and doesn't need to be strained like that.  Please control your language, and check the various stickies for language guidelines.

Strike for you.

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Clark Kent by saying I missed the point and I lived in a country club it shows how little you actually know about life around the world. I suppose the guys fighting right now and living in tents are the same as you just described me. I am infantry, you may be right about some of the people in the military but you are wrong about me and those that are on front lines or in guard towers or walking perimeters or leading convoys over mined roads.

I believe you are right that some do pay taxes (I have seen no figures either way so I will make no assumption as to numbers). However if they are paying more taxes for being illegal and it costs them more to do so. Common sense would say that they would become legal immigrants. I don't understand your argument about them paying more, that seems to be their choice (I don't know any in that situation so I don't understand it and it does not follow common sense). You have also agreed that they know they are wrong, I could not live like that so again I donít understand how others could. I know how easy it is to become an American. I have friends that have done it.

The only thing I said didnít matter was that those that paid SS taxes. I said nothing about those that pay full taxes.

On the point of right by birth. I agree with you. I have no more right to live and work in this country than any other citizen that has chosen to become an American. Their options in my opinion: Become a legal immigrant, make the money needed to become a citizen and become a citizen.
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:


Isn't that a bit dogmatic? Particularly for someone living in a country that was founded by a bunch of traitors and criminals?


We may have been founded by traitors and criminals, but name one nation in the world that does not have a similar beginning. By the same token illegal immigrants come to the US, gain enough population and take over US by force. Is that what you are suggesting of the future? (this is just a question I am not being malicious)
I cannot change my countries origins just as they cannot change theirs. So what do you want me to do about our founders?

Originally posted by darkSIDEofMOON darkSIDEofMOON wrote:



1. no argument

2. I have done one of those jobs

3. lol, sorry my dictionary doesnít have a problem with my spelling. Yes muslem religion is the problem. Go to your local book store get the koran and sit down and read it! Then please come back to me and tell me it teaches peace and not slaughtering infidels.

4. As I said I have done one of those jobs

5. I am INFANTRY, I spent 8 years serving my country. I have been overseas serving. I may never have been in combat but that is a bitter sweet that I will have to live with the rest of my life.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkSIDEofMOON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2005 at 3:27am
Originally posted by Rambino Rambino wrote:

Welcome to the forum.  Our poor language filter works plenty hard, and doesn't need to be strained like that.  Please control your language, and check the various stickies for language guidelines.

Strike for you.

 

stupid people piss me off when they talk about my culture.

and i acutally like that what it says about the strike...looks funny.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkSIDEofMOON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2005 at 3:36am
Originally posted by TheDarkRealms TheDarkRealms wrote:

Clark Kent by saying I missed the point and I lived in a country club it shows how little you actually know about life around the world. I suppose the guys fighting right now and living in tents are the same as you just described me. I am infantry, you may be right about some of the people in the military but you are wrong about me and those that are on front lines or in guard towers or walking perimeters or leading convoys over mined roads.

I believe you are right that some do pay taxes (I have seen no figures either way so I will make no assumption as to numbers). However if they are paying more taxes for being illegal and it costs them more to do so. Common sense would say that they would become legal immigrants. I don't understand your argument about them paying more, that seems to be their choice (I don't know any in that situation so I don't understand it and it does not follow common sense). You have also agreed that they know they are wrong, I could not live like that so again I donít understand how others could. I know how easy it is to become an American. I have friends that have done it.

The only thing I said didnít matter was that those that paid SS taxes. I said nothing about those that pay full taxes.

On the point of right by birth. I agree with you. I have no more right to live and work in this country than any other citizen that has chosen to become an American. Their options in my opinion: Become a legal immigrant, make the money needed to become a citizen and become a citizen.
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:


Isn't that a bit dogmatic? Particularly for someone living in a country that was founded by a bunch of traitors and criminals?


We may have been founded by traitors and criminals, but name one nation in the world that does not have a similar beginning. By the same token illegal immigrants come to the US, gain enough population and take over US by force. Is that what you are suggesting of the future? (this is just a question I am not being malicious)
I cannot change my countries origins just as they cannot change theirs. So what do you want me to do about our founders?

Originally posted by darkSIDEofMOON darkSIDEofMOON wrote:



1. no argument

2. I have done one of those jobs

3. lol, sorry my dictionary doesnít have a problem with my spelling

4. As I said I have done one of those jobs

5. I am INFANTRY, I spent 8 years serving my country. I have been overseas serving. I may never have been in combat but that is a bitter sweet that I will have to live with the rest of my life.

 

actually i was stating that to be born in america and living in a different country means little. 

i do applaud you for serving your country because i doubt i could do what you have choosen your life to.

but there are issues that are deeper and harder to comprehend than just saying "you should become an american citizen."  research the topic more, ask immigrants the process and why or why not they have or have not done it. 

i am not saying i know ALL about this but i know the common arguments that people make and have done several researches about this topic.  it is not a black and white issue, but people try to make it seem like that.  there are gray areas and there are areas that people do not want to understand because they themselves know little about it. 

overall like i stated before, this needs to be delt with now and the reforms need to enacted.  but until we get people in offices that can do this we are not moving anywhere but in circles.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheDarkRealms Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2005 at 3:53am
darkSIDEofMOON I'm sorry, I did miss question 6 and I do agree with you on it. The government is the one group that can bring reform and unfortunately they are unable for one reason or another to bring that about. I'm sorry if I came across as hard about the military but I had already gotten upset about the lack of respect for the soldiers (not government) that are trying to do what has been put on them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2005 at 3:58am

Originally posted by TheDarkRealms TheDarkRealms wrote:

Clark Kent by saying I missed the point and I lived in a country club it shows how little you actually know about life around the world.

That's funny.   :)

More to the point, you missed mine as well as Panda's.

Panda was noting that given a choice between breaking an immigration law and living in Crapholeland, there is no choice.  You responded with a "when in Rome" story about how you don't look Muslim women in the eyes.  Completely irrelevant.

My point (a mere aside, really, and not particularly important to the discussion) was not that an army camp is a country club, but that living on base does not make you much more qualified to comment on life in a country than your average tourist - because when living on base (or even, to a lesser extent, living off base but working on base) you are essentially surrounded by a coccoon of America, or at least a coccoon of army.  Leading convoys over mined roads is so far from the life of the average Saudi as to render your experience irrelevant to understanding their experience.  Truly living in a country means living with the locals, working with the locals, dating the locals, eating their food, going to their schools...  But that isn't really important.  My main point was that you missed Panda's point.

Originally posted by darkrealms darkrealms wrote:

I believe you are right that some do pay taxes (I have seen no figures either way so I will make no assumption as to numbers).

I'll help you out.  Here, here, and here.  According to those numbers, illegals contribute hundreds of millions each year in income taxes, and BILLIONS in social security taxes.  And those billions are free to us - the people paying in are not eligible for benefits.

Why so low on regular income taxes?  I gave the reason already - these people are living in poverty.  Poor people don't pay much/any income tax, but do pay SS tax at the same rate as everybody else.

So, to reiterate - as a group, illegals make such low wages that most of them would not pay much/any income tax even if they were legal, so that's essentially a wash.  They would pay SS tax if they were legal, but then they would also qualify for SS benefits, which would probably be a net loss for the country, given how SS is going.  Many illegals, however, do contribute FREE money (in the billions each year) to our struggling social security system.

Originally posted by darkrealms darkrealms wrote:

However if they are paying more taxes for being illegal and it costs them more to do so. Common sense would say that they would become legal immigrants. I don't understand your argument about them paying more, that seems to be their choice (I don't know any in that situation so I don't understand it and it does not follow common sense).

I am stunned by your total and utter lack of even the most basic comprehension of how immigration laws work.  You can't just "choose" to be legal.  That's just not how the laws work.  Your comments make no sense whatsoever.

Originally posted by darkrealms darkrealms wrote:

You have also agreed that they know they are wrong, I could not live like that so again I donít understand how others could.

I didn't say "wrong" - I said illegal.  Given the choice between "illegal" and "starving", I choose "illegal".  Pretty easy choice to me.

Quote I know how easy it is to become an American. I have friends that have done it.

Not to be rude, but - you have GOT to be kidding me.  "EASY"?

It is not "easy" to become American for 99.99% of the people who would like to.  For most, it is flat out impossible.  For the rest, it is simply obscenely difficult, timeconsuming, and expensive.  There are a very few paths to citizenship that are "easy", but the people that are eligible for those paths are few and far between.  For your average illegal migrant worker, legal status is simply not available.

Quote The only thing I said didnít matter was that those that paid SS taxes. I said nothing about those that pay full taxes.

Again, you are focusing on the wrong thing.  As I mentioned above, at that income level, SS taxes FAR outstrip regular income taxes.  SS taxes is what this is all about.  People who make $5/hour don't pay much or any regular income taxes, whether they are legal or not.

Originally posted by darkrealms darkrealms wrote:

Their options in my opinion: Become a legal immigrant, make the money needed to become a citizen and become a citizen.

And therein lies the center of your misunderstanding.  Most people are simply not eligible for even a temporary work visa under our laws, let alone citizenship.

Quote We may have been founded by traitors and criminals, but name one nation in the world that does not have a similar beginning.

That would be most of them.  We were a breakaway colony.  That is a fairly unusual way to start a country.  Most countries evolved over time through combinations of smaller fiefdoms.

Quote By the same token illegal immigrants come to the US, gain enough population and take over US by force. Is that what you are suggesting of the future? (this is just a question I am not being malicious)

I do not understand your question.

Quote I cannot change my countries origins just as they cannot change theirs. So what do you want me to do about our founders?

Nothing.  I was simply bemused by your dogmatic adherence to the letter of the law despite rather obvious flaws in application.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheDarkRealms Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2005 at 4:18am
Clark Kent then I guess we both misunderstood each other and our experiences differ in people we know. I can say I know people that have not had a problem becoming US citizens and I know people here on green cards/visas (and no they are not from 1st world countries). But I don't know people (apparently) that are illegal immigrants.

As far as the countries starting. What country has ever started without the fighting, oppression and bloodshed. That was my point. The traitors were also outcasts of many nations, criminals, improper religions, etc. Not just citizens of a distant government.

Thank you for the information about the taxes. I will read through it.

Unfortunately we will not see eye to eye on this topic. However I have learned and will learn some more from the information you have provided.

As far as Saudi goes. There is a very small percentage of the country that actually is Saudi. The rest of the country is TCNs (3rd country nationals). Mexico is nicer than most of the places they live and work. Saudi, Sinai, and Kuwait I have been to. I agree you know more about the taxes. Please at least understand I know about the middle east and the grunt side of the military.

I will be back tomorrow
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Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by Sammy Sammy wrote:

You asked to describe. I gave my description of what I have seen, that isn't sterotyping, that is generalizing.


No. Because you didn't describe "illegal immigrants" - you described "people who have the look you associate with illegal immigrants", and that is pretty much the definition of stererotyping. Unless, of course, you checked the citizenship/visa status of each of those workers...


I can assure you the strawberry pickers are illegal immigrants. [/]

Quote And I don't usually see six whites packed into the the back of a ten year old pickup truck.


Visit Arkansas.


Take a picture.

Quote I think it is realtively easy to tell the illegal hispanic immigrants apart from citizens in California.


Your ignorance is so astounding as to defy logic. What you actually mean is that you can tell hispanic from white, and you presume that all hispanics are illegal immigrants and whites are not.



Cluephone - there are LOADS of citizens and legal immigrants of Mexican descent living in SoCal that are visually indistinguishable from illegal immigrants.

No, I never said that. I said I could usually tell the illegal immigrants from citizens. My neighbor was a Hispanic doctor in California, I know there are plenty of legal hispanic citizens that are hard working and make a decent living.

Quote You said we probbally couldn't even tell the difference between an immigrant and a citizen, I say I can.


And on what do you base that claim? How many passports/visas have you inspected?


Show me a picture of a strawberry picker and show me a picture of another hispanic.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote merc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2005 at 8:33am
i stopped reading after the 2nd page...

i think the point OS was trying to make had something to do with having UNRESTRICTED or very lax immagration laws.

not the immagration situation in the states...

i know around here we have alot of one immagrating race.

im sure most of them are legal but it makes getting jobs more diffacult. for example: i worked at a shop for a short time. the people their (mostly immagrents) took crapy pay. they were capping out at what most places start at.

so now me with a degree in my field went for a job intervew and they offered me 75% of what most people start at off the street. i do see in some places they take alot of crappy jobs but i also see that they drive the wages down.

i have seen may times that immagrents will pile into one apartment (8-10 people for a 2 bedroom place) they are used to eating cheap food (rice) and they drive the wages down then fill the rest of the positions with other people in the house...
saving the world, one warship at a time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2005 at 9:23am

The largest impact of immgrants that I see are laborors in farming and construction.  For the most part they are very cheap labor, do sub-par work but get it done.

The farmer owners complain about reliability of the immagrant's and with construction the lack of perfection is evedent in the instances that I've seen their work, but it get's done.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2005 at 9:38am

Sammy - see EJP's post for the logical faults in your post.  For empirical evidence, watch Born in East L.A.

Darkrealms - My point with the criminal/traitor bit had nothing to do with violence, and everything to do with disobeying laws.  Your principal concern with illegals appears to be simply that they are disobeying laws; my point was that there are times when disobeying laws is the right thing to do, and to condemn something PURELY because of its illegality without investigating the underlying issues is a bit silly - particularly for an American.

I have no doubt that your experience with Army-gruntism and the Middle East exceed mine - my experience with both are fairly limited.  But both the military and the Middle East are quite irrelevant to this discussion.  As to immigration laws, it is not a matter of experience - it is a matter of law, which transcends experience.  You don't have to believe me, but contact your nearest immigration professional and ask how easy it is for some random guy to "become American".  As a factual/legal matter, it just is not easy, or even possible, for the vast majority of foreigners. 

I will venture that your experience with citizenship comes primarily from the military citizenship program - if you look closer at that program, you will find that there are some very specific requirements for eligibility, that most foreigners just cannot meet.  No opinion, simple fact:  Becoming American (or not) is not simply a matter of choice.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dazed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2005 at 11:26am
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by TheDarkRealms TheDarkRealms wrote:

There are just those of us that do believe that to work in our country everyone should be doing it legally. And yes I am just as against drug dealers as I am this.

Isn't that a bit dogmatic? Particularly for someone living in a country that was founded by a bunch of traitors and criminals?



Better yet, did you never have a job as a kid? Mow grass or take out the trash for your allowance?

Did your parents, or that lady down the street, hand you a w2 as you started your first time? Did they follow the child labor laws? Did you have a work permit from your local school?

So, how much further are you willing to drag an idiotic theory that "all work should always be done inside the confines of the law"?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Liquid3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2005 at 12:34pm
Why do we have to make everything soo difficult. Tolerence, inclusion and respect help solve most problems. Simplistict but true. They are being excluded and discriminated against. I would be angry also, I don't agree with the tactics they are using but they feel they don't have any other way to voice thier anger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2005 at 12:36pm
Weird, another oldsoldier post where he makes a stupid point and then refuses to comment on any criticism.

I'm actually starting to think that OS is Clark and just does this to give himself something to debate....think about it.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zesty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2005 at 1:23pm
How do you guys reply to multiple quotes in one post?
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