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P8ball3r View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote P8ball3r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2005 at 1:18am
does anyone know where I can get an E-Trigger upgrade kit for my custom pro?
READ!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scotchbroth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2005 at 9:28am

Originally posted by Xspyderman Xspyderman wrote:

Originally posted by Pro_Carbine Pro_Carbine wrote:

You are probably stupid. You have to kinda tune the flatline
This kind of response should get you banned from the forum.

Originally posted by Beavis Beavis wrote:

shut yer hole ya dik. it will make it inacuret

A fine example of forum courtesy.

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Vladimir Lenin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vladimir Lenin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2005 at 11:44am

Yea, once again I have no knowledge on how to take good care of my gun...

But if the information helps, I ust .689 paintballs from wall-mart .

I am going to upgrade now that Nightbreed opened up here in Durant, OK. And I'm going to super clean my barrel and gun and buy some marbalizer balls. I should be paintballing this weekend and I can't wait. There is going to be a tourney down here in February so I cant wait. You guys should come down and train me to be good at this sport. Well get drunk on saturday, go shoot the stupid people wasting gas on the "drag". After paintballing all day saturday of course. Private message me and i'll give you my number.



Thats my package.
Thank you EBAY
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Zesty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zesty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2005 at 1:30pm
I laugh everytime one of these threads is made, because inevitably there will be a bunch of Flatline fanboys who blame all the shortcomings of the barrel on the operator's stupidity!

I have never owned or even shot a M98C Flatline, so I can't comment there. I did however have the displeasure of owning a BRAND NEW A5 Flatline for a few months.

Basically, the A5 Flatline is much shorter and compact than the M98C version, much easier to install(a no-brainer actually), and it comes looking like a nice fat suppressor....that's cool. It owns the M98C Flatline.

But it still sucks. I'm not even gonna get into listing all the bad characteristics of the Flatline, because anyone who has read my posts knows I think it's far from the best barrel available.

All I can say is I spoke with my actions, and promptly sold my A5 Flatline and bought some extra LAPCO one-piece barrels.

I'm open-minded enough to admit that I made a mistake by buying the barrel, it was the worst $100 I have ever spent on anything paintball related!

I wish there would have been more people like me to steer me clear of the barrel!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zesty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2005 at 1:33pm
This is the way I see it....a barrel serves one purpose, to fire a paintball accurately as possible.

LAPCO's do that, Flatline's do the opposite of that.

It's quite honestly a gimmick barrel for people that want an unfair advantage by staying out of range or having the ability to shoot someone while not being able to be shot themselves.

Pretty chicken-poop if you ask me....where's the fun in playing if all you're gonna do is sit back and long-ball?

And if you plan to move up and test the Flatine's accuracy while you're in range of an actual quality barrel, you will be eliminated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Millslane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2005 at 1:54pm
Zesty alot of people with flatline do stay in back and fire shots withough the threat of being hit themselves. i totally agree.

the reason i run with the flatline, is for the flat trajectory. i'm a woodsballer, and i play point man, up front, close combat. nothing cares them more then when the faltline starts booming down on top of them.

I don't think i can use another barrel that wants flat trajectory, unless i had no choice.

thats why i prefer the flatline, for the flat line the ball travels in. not the distance
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Zesty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zesty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2005 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by Millslane Millslane wrote:

Zesty alot of people with flatline do stay in back and fire shots withough the threat of being hit themselves. i totally agree.

the reason i run with the flatline, is for the flat trajectory. i'm a
woodsballer, and i play point man, up front, close combat. nothing
cares them more then when the faltline starts booming down on top of
them.

I don't think i can use another barrel that wants flat trajectory, unless i had no choice.

thats why i prefer the flatline, for the flat line the ball travels in. not the distance

No problem, I actually wanted my Flatline for the same reasons. I'm a bt bigger guy than average(6'2" 165), but I am pretty athletic and like to stay mobile and active and up-front most the time.

This is probably the worst play-style for a Flatline user! The barrel cannot be cleaned properly in-field, it can't be shot accurately with the gun canted, and to top it off the barrel costs $100 and just plain isn't near as accurate as barrels costing less than half as much.

Basically, you bought a $100 barrel just to use one of it's inherrant advantages.

I buy barrels for utmost accuracy, I'm not gonna spend 2X what I need to to get a gimmick barrel that shoots farther and flatter but with limited accuracy and a bunch of hangups that detract from my playing experience.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2005 at 3:17pm

Originally posted by Vladimir Lenin Vladimir Lenin wrote:

You have all been alot of help, but I will let you know that I have turned the velocity to every volume, I have twisted, pulled, and lossened that flatline to hell and still the balls have a mind of their own. No wind/some wind does not matter When I shoot they go straight then make mad curves to no where and the thing is soooo inaccurate. I mean what point is farther distance if it would not hit a elephant at 250ft away...

Vlad,

If you are so unhappy with it, I'll take it off your hands at no charge to you and I'll even pay the freight. I'll have that Flatline marker knocking sparrows of the elephant's back in 15 minutes using the correct paint.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2005 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by Vladimir Lenin Vladimir Lenin wrote:

(SNIP)

But if the information helps, I use .689 paintballs from wall-mart .

(SNIP)

.689 LOL, no wonder! I repeat my offer to take the thing off your hands at no charge to you!!! That will free you up to go buy a Plug 'N Play paintball marker. You'll like the Ion, you don't even have to read the instructions.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2005 at 3:26pm

Originally posted by Millslane Millslane wrote:

not everybody has trouble with their flatlines. i am convinced that if you didn't like you flatline for any season other then you think its too loud, too long or too fat, then you just didn't understand how to use it. a properly tuned flatline will work exactly like tippmann says it will. strait and long flat shots.

Mine preforms flawlessly as long as i make sure everythings right...paint, FPS, clean

so don't talk about the flaltine as if the barrel its self is the reason for your failure with it.

its user error, not the bad barrel design.

Sooooo true!!!

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Zesty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zesty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2005 at 5:36pm
^Dude, talk about cheap! Even though the barrel sucks-toes, it's still worth a good chunk of change to some uneducated Flatline fanboy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zesty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2005 at 5:37pm
I'm mostly joking, just to clarify......seems I've been having a bit of trouble on that front as of late.

But seriously, at least offer to pay the dude $80 for it if you think the Flatline is so great.
"People who see the future earlier than others are always feared and misunderstood." - Jose Canseco
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xspyderman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2005 at 5:45pm

I've had paint break once in my Flatline once when my FPS creeped up to over 300.  The only time I've seen it shoot poorly is when it was dirty, or the paint was sub-par... a very rare event...

1) Install barrel.

2) Buy good to better paint.

3) Set the FPS to 270-275

4) Play paintball.

 

Xs.

A5, GTA; Flatline, Double Trigger, R/T, Tapco Stock, 32 Remote, Attitude

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hwayhzrd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2005 at 5:48pm

Originally posted by Hella Cool Hella Cool wrote:


1. Don't use bad language.
2. Flatlines are great for people intelligent enough to use them.

Amen, Hella Cool!

The Flatline is THE only barrel that I put on my Tippmanns.

You just have to have a clue as to how to use one.

E-Bolt + Flatline = woodsball domination

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zesty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2005 at 10:38am
I personally think an A5RT with 12" LAPCO Bigshot would give you nightmares, but who knows.

One question: How can you improperly use an A5 Flatline? Because that's what I had, and I still feel it sucked.

Just because you don't like the barrel, doesn't mean you don't know what you're doing....kinda like just because your A5 wasn't good to you, doesn't mean it was any fault of your own! But I'm sure you don't see the similarities.

But all you Flatline fanboys NEVER ADMIT to any shortcomings of the barrel, which kills your credibilty in my eyes.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Devil2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2005 at 12:51pm
Zesty, how long did you use your barrel? In my experiences, you have to "break it in". Thats what I call it atleast. I personally thought it sucked and kicked myself in the butt for spending $100 on it at first, but after playing a few games with it, it got better. Well, no, it got awesome. It stopped breaking balls, it stopped sending them cork-screwing through air, and it started sending them straight into my opponents. I noticed that when I first bought it, it was very very gritty. But right now its like fine sand paper instead of the extra-course stuff it used to be.

The Evil Thong Girl had something called "Motion Lotion"...it tasted pretty good, I ate the entire contents of the bottle thingy..-Hell's Oracle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hwayhzrd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2005 at 1:03pm

The A-5 version is basically click and shoot, yes, but there is more to using a Flaltine than alignment, though that is a big part.

Type of paint and velocity settings, for example, play a role.

You cannot stick it on, crank to 300 and rule the world.

Also, manufacturer defects DO happen.

This is not a perfect world, granted, but people do tend to create their own problems.

All I can say is if you do all the right things to make something work and it still doesn't help, drop back ten and punt the freaking ball. That's what I did with the A-5.

Case closed.

Why is this so blasted difficult?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Millslane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 October 2005 at 10:19am
Originally posted by Zesty Zesty wrote:

I personally think an A5RT with 12" LAPCO Bigshot would give you nightmares, but who knows.

One question: How can you improperly use an A5 Flatline? Because that's what I had, and I still feel it sucked.

Just because you don't like the barrel, doesn't mean you don't know what you're doing....kinda like just because your A5 wasn't good to you, doesn't mean it was any fault of your own! But I'm sure you don't see the similarities.

But all you Flatline fanboys NEVER ADMIT to any shortcomings of the barrel, which kills your credibilty in my eyes.



Zesty i agree with you. I am not saying you did this, but too many times people here post moronic comments like "no1 in the history of sciences owns a flatline because they are rubbish!!!!!!!!!!!!" and thats all. no explination of why they think that. no explination of their experiances.

when people are going to make comments one way or the other, they should say something to back it up. i try to make a effort at that most of the time.

as far as the bad commings with my flatline. sure i had some. like HH said, as first it sucked. i don't think the barrel had to be broken in. i think it was more of myself that needed to be. i needed to learn what i was going, then it got awsome. once i learned how it worked , what made it work better and what maked it fail. i corrected those problems and all my problems went away.

i personally feel that most people who didn't like the flatline didn't fully understand it and how to work it. but there are exceptions.

you are right, "Just because you don't like the barrel, doesn't mean you don't know what you're doing"

I do feel that i can help most people who don't like that flatline, figure out how to get it working right and then they will love it. most people. but not everyone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hwayhzrd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 October 2005 at 11:55am

Well met, Millslane. That is all I ever tried to say, but there seems to have been some breakdown in communication at some point.

Oh, well, C'est Le Vie



Edited by hwayhzrd
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 October 2005 at 1:58pm
I just realized I didn't say anything really useful in my other post on this topic, so I'll try to add something helpful here.  Please keep in mind, that I am not claiming any scientific knowledge or special research but am just referencing my experiences using the Flatline barrel.

First, I could probably be classified as a "Flatline fanboy".  I like my flatline, but it is not the only barrel I use.  Besides my 98C with the Flatline, I have two Hammer pumps with the stock barrels, a stock Autococker, an A5 with a 6" Bigshot, a 98C with an r/t and a 14" Endgame (longer than I like but it was a good price), and a 98 with a 12" J&J.  What I use each time out depends on how I feel like playing, the weather conditions, and the terrain.

Now for the Flatline specifically.  I'll start with the perceived cons:
  • Flatlines aren't accurate
    • It is not significantly less accurate at shorter ranges.
    • At the longer ranges the barrel is capable of it does not achieve pinpoint accuracy.  If someone bought a flatline expecting to be an elite "sniper", they might as well sell it now because they will never be happy.  However, while the flatline does not turn a marker into a "sniper" rifle, it does make a marker a very effective tool for long range suppressive fire.  It will not usually score a hit in one shot, but by using 3-6 round semi-auto "bursts" I have found it is capable of breaking paint on targets that are out of the effective range of normal barrels even when a full 45 degrees of arc is used in aiming.  This effectiveness is due to the flat trajectory which allows the paint to strike with more force because of both the angle of impact and retained velocity do to the backspin.  I've also noticed that with a flatline it is possible to force opponents to abandon postions and drop back even when eliminations are not made.  (I like to call the resultant dodging/weaving as they run away "the Flatline dance.")
  • Flatlines are harder on paint-very true, but this can be mitigated somewhat.
  • Flatlines are an unfair advantage for people who want to shoot at others without fear of retaliation-so what, I could counter with the statement that 23 bps electo-markers are unfair advantages for people who can't aim well enough to hit an opponent in their first 2-3 shots.  Either statement could be true or untrue depending on the player utilizing the equipment, so I'm not going to get into irrelevant generalizations.
  • If you break paint in a Flatline on the field, you're in big trouble-very true; a good on-field squeegee is a must for any Flatline user.  (It should still be thoroughly cleaned again once off the field.)
  • Flatlines are junk-mostly unsupported opinion.  However, there are Flatlines that come from the factory that just do not work.  (I would estimate about 1 in 12, but that is only a rough guess.)  Also, flatlines can wear out.  The rough surface that grabs the ball to provide backspin can wear down or some knothead will think it's a good idea to polish the inside then sell it when accuracy/range disappears entirely.  (I actually saw that once!)
Now for the pros:
  • The increased range allows harrassment/elimination of targets that would normally be out of range
  • The flat trajectory is an amazing advantage when playing in heavily overgrown areas that make lobbed shots impossible.  (This is actually the biggest advantage I think the barrel provides.)  I play in an area where I can fire through openings and get easy eliminations but the return fire requires just enough arc that it all breaks on the intervening foliage.
    • Some would cry "unfair", but is it anymore unfair than a guy with a tricked-out Angel taking on someone with stock 98 on an Air-Sup speedball field?  Hmmm.
    • It just depends on where you want to play and what you want to play with.
A few general tips for making a Flatline work:
  • A consistent air source is a must, I would recommend the following options in the given order.
    • Using compressed air (good tank/reliable regulator).
    • Adding a regulator if using CO2.
    • Adding an X-chamber if using CO2.
  • Avoid using the Flatline with other air-driven add-ons.  (I.e. the R/T or Cyclone Feed).
    • The barrel is an air hog and you don't want to starve it.
    • I've seen a couple of folks get gould results with an R/T in addition to the Flatline but they were in the minority.
  • Use a good quality, small bore paint.  (I got lucky here, whatever the more expensive stuff is that our field sells works great in my Flatline.)
  • Clean the barrel often, even if you didn't break paint, to remove any residue left from the fired paintballs or oil from the internals, which could interfere with accuracy.
Tuning/installing a Flatline:
  • The A5 Flatline
    • I have minimal experience here as I only owned one for a short time and ended up trading it in for other equipment.
    • In defense of the barrel, I must say the following:
      • I never gave it a fair chance.  I did not go through the same steps I took with my 98 Flatline because I saw the 6" Bigshot and wanted it very badly.
      • I have a friend who did follow some of my advice with his A5 Flatline and it is now a marker to be feared in the thick woods.
      • The A5 Flatline is much easier to line up correctly than the 98 Flatline.
      • I think that the same steps I will mention below for the 98 Flatline should work on the A5 as well.
  • The 98 Flatline
    • Is very difficult to get lined up perfectly during installation so I did the following:
      • Installed it as straight as possible but did not crank the bolt down completely.
      • Chronoed in at the mid 270s
      • Braced it on a table at the field (to keep the marker as upright as possible) while firing test shots and adjusting the barrel left/right to get it installed as near-perfect as possible.
      • Tightened it down when I was happy with it.
      • Someone else on the forum suggested marking the barrel and marker to aid in lining up during later installations.  Brilliant idea that I'm ashamed I never thought of before.
    • The way the air hits the ball is also vital.
      • To little velocity and you obviously lose range.
      • With to much velocity, you tend to break paint right where the Flatline starts to ramp up outside the end of the chamber.  (Paint will also break here if the barrel is not pushed all the way in or works loose.)
    • I controlled air release in the following manner:
      • Purchased an aftermarket spring kit and tried differents springs.
      • Added an RVA and experimented with using it in conjuction with the stock velocity adjustment screw to use a lot of air, but release it slowly.
        • Used RVA to increase tension on drive spring.
        • Used stock adjuster to block power tube. slowing the release of the air.
      • My theory behind this was as follows:
        • The slow release of the air would cause the ball to hit the "ramp" at a speed less likely to cause breakage.
        • The larger volume of air released would cause the ball to pick up most of its speed as it traveled down the barrel.
      • I can't prove it works without letting someone test fire my marker, but I never break paint and I get good accuracy at all ranges.
        • Downside-my marker is more of a gas-hog than any other marker I know of.
    • Muzzle velocity is also very important.
      • Experiment with a chronograph to see what velocity works best for the specific barrel/marker set up.
      • For me it is 272fps, but others have had different results.

Final thoughts:
  • The Flatline barrel is not appropriate for all situations.
    • The longer range and backspin make it much more susceptable to the effects of crosswinds.  I break out another marker on those days.  (It gets very windy up here in Montana.)
    • The barrel seems to increase the temperature sensitivity of paint.  Earlier I said I "never" break paint.  I will qualify that by adding that I learned when I first got my Flatline not to use it when the temp drops much below 60 F.
  • The barrel is not appropriate for all players.  Those who like to play up close and personal in the open will be happier with other barrels; especially, if they run, jump, and dive a lot while shooting.  If the marker is not held level when firing the paint will go all over the place, just like it will with an improperly installed Flatline.
  • The above brings me to what I consider the one inherent disadvantage to the Flatline barrel.  Since having the barrel straight is so important to performance, a certain slight hesitation is required when using it to make sure the marker is held vertical to the ground.  This "aiming moment" does slow down rapid/effective employment of the Flatline; moveover, failing to take this time could cause a miss when a hit should have been easily made.
    • Normally not an issue in really close engagements as the hits occur before aim could be affected.
    • Can be an issue at medium to long ranges.  (I estimate anything beyond approximately 60 feet.)
  • Sights are useful on Flatline equipped markers.  A red dot of some kind is perfect for making sure the first long range shots are on/near the target when providing suppressive fire for the movements of team mates.
Edited Note:  One thing I wanted to add.  For those that can only afford one aftermarket barrel, I usually recommend the J&J Ceramic.


Edited by Mack
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