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C3 w/ PEP

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    Posted: 19 October 2005 at 10:32am

I just saw that Tippmann has a new pump that uses propane.  Are they crazy???  Is it just me, or is this an accident waiting to happen?  Say the gun has a small leak and someone decides to light up a cancer stick close by...boooommmm!!!  Not to mention the fact, that I'm sure people will store their tanks inside the house, or worse yet, in an equipment case made of plastic.  Knowing a little about propane, having built many propane spudguns, I know the proper precautions and care to take with propane, but I wonder how many teens will heed warnings (not to say the MAJORITY of teens aren't responsible, I believe they are...)?  Myself, along with most plumbers will store their disposable bottles either in their work truck or in a HAZMAT certifide cabinet in their garage or shop.  I just wonder if this is the best thing for paintball. 

I don't mean to bust on Tippmann as I love their markers, but this one frightens me...

Oaky, I am now prepared to be flamed.....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reifidom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2005 at 10:37am
Originally posted by spudcrazy spudcrazy wrote:

Okay, I am now prepared to be flamed.....


hehe

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rambino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2005 at 10:45am

Or, you could try to learn something instead of just speaking out of ignorance.

Propane will be SAFER than CO2/HPA.  Not to mention much more efficient, and much easier to access - great for backyard players.

I for one am very excited.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *Stealth* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2005 at 10:47am
Originally posted by Panda Man Panda Man wrote:



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COPIER!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pump Scout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2005 at 11:20am
I'm still hesitant. 3.75 pounds without tank, hopper, or paint. LONG pump stroke. No anti-double-pump. Barrel that is not only breech-drop, but is unique to this marker. The propane I can deal with, it's the design details that are killing me. MSRP had best be spectacular on this, or they're going to sit on the shelf, while CCI and CCM have problems keeping up with demand for the Phantom and SS-25, respectively.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *Stealth* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2005 at 11:25am
Originally posted by Pump Scout Pump Scout wrote:

I'm still hesitant. 3.75 pounds without tank, hopper, or paint. LONG pump stroke. No anti-double-pump. Barrel that is not only breech-drop, but is unique to this marker. The propane I can deal with, it's the design details that are killing me. MSRP had best be spectacular on this, or they're going to sit on the shelf, while CCI and CCM have problems keeping up with demand for the Phantom and SS-25, respectively.


MSRP 300$.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2005 at 12:22pm
Airsoft has been using propane/greengas for years and NO accidents with gas used as directed. Propane is safer than compressed gasses, been used in households for years, storage of tanks and safety issues on tanks will benifit the use of wallmart bought camp propane bottles as compared to compressed gas tanks with pressure valves, and hydrotest issues. But of course the paintball crowd will insist on doing STUPID things to create a problem, and I have no doubt on that issue.

And of course the newb "spray and pray" crowd can not understand a pump. Remmember you only have to hit your target with ONE paintball, the way many of us learned the ORIGINAL game.

COST is high for marker but daily operating cost and availability will outweigh the initial cost in a very short time. $8.00 for 50,000 shots, as compared to $250 for CO2 or compressed air/N2.

A semi will sone follow no doubt, using the airsoft style electric operating system, motor winds back valve and spring released, or a GBB style operating system.


Edited by oldsoldier
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rambino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2005 at 12:26pm

OS is right. 

The C3 will obviously not appeal to speedball players, and many pump enthusiasts will prefer the premium CCI markers.

But for the bulk of pump guys, a gun that can shoot 50,000 shots between air fills will be a godsend.  A gun where you can get air at the hardware store will be a godsend.

How many threads have we seen on the forum with some poor guy who has to drive two hours to get a fill for his weekend game?

This is obviously a bit of a proof-of-concept, but it is a major advancement in paintball technology.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2005 at 12:37pm
I want one, but Iisnt eve am not willing to pay $225 for a a marker that gets 50000 shots when I get free CO2 and HPA fills doesnt make sense to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2005 at 12:41pm
OK you get free fills, and the rest of us? Even with free fills, your airsystems and bottles outcost the C-3 marker, and you do not have to rehydo or buy a new marker every 5 years or at first ding in compressed air tank body.

Edited by oldsoldier
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reifidom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2005 at 12:45pm
I'm very happy to see a new pump, of virtually any design, on the market. I am all for the propagation of the species. I'll give the marker consideration, but I really enjoy the way my Phantom and PGP2K perform.

Still... no harm in giving it a shot. :)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ShortyBP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2005 at 12:50pm
I think this has amazing potential. The idea behind Propane use has been brought up here jokingly in the past... with the usual thought behind the risk of blowing yourself up.

But I do see how this should be a very safe system. Paslode nail guns run on Butane... another flammable gas, and I don't recall reading of any blowing up.

$8.00 for a 16oz Propane tank is even on the high side. I typically pay only $2.50 per tank, when bought in a package of 4. $10 for 200,000 shots? 100 cases of paint with a pump gun? So essentially, I pay for one package of propane cannisters and can basically play pump for a lifetime without ever having to purchase air again. Simply incredible!

Yes, the initial cost at first glance may cause many to be hesitant... but just on the factor of long-term cost (not to mention CONVENIENCE)... the savings on air covers that cost. No more fills, in the case of HPA... no more expensive tanks! Cost of filling a CO2/HPA tank aside... factor in the cost of driving to get those fills.

It may seem a bit heavy... but given the mechanism required to make this all happen, it's understandable. There are no featherweight Paslode nail guns out there that I have found. :) If it does run on the same principle as a Paslode, I would suspect that more R&D will be necessary before a semi is introduced.
A pump helps eliminate some of the bulk needed to facilitate recharging the system... I would think a semi would not only be heavy, but perhaps significantly larger, and even with that, recharge rate would be an issue. Something Tippmann Skunkworks is undoubtedly working on.

I see this concept taking off, big time.
I don't see it finding a home in the 30bps speedball tourney scene... but for rec players, this is an incredible development.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2005 at 12:54pm

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

OK you get free fills, and the rest of us? Even with free fills, your airsystems and bottles outcost the C-3 marker, and you do not have to rehydo or buy a new marker every 5 years or at first ding in compressed air tank body.

My HPA bottle costs $30 less than the C-3 marker.

I also own a SL-68II which I get free CO2 fills for my 9oz tank, therefore making the C-3 pointless for me personally. This is a good idea, but it just isnt feasable for me to buy one.  I wasnt tlking about anyone else.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2005 at 1:04pm

I think it'll be a big hit for people like me who are the ones that need to drive all over creation to get co2 tanks filled.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pump Scout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2005 at 1:09pm
Again, if the pump stroke was shorter, and it took some form of standardized/threaded barrel, I'd be interested. As it looks at this point, I've got pumps that stroke hard and can be double fed, and I've got pumps I can't find barrels for. Yes, the propane concept is neat, and it gets great mileage. However, as a package, I'm not ready to buy yet. Just my opinion.

Sucks, too. I was really looking forward to a new Tippmann pump, but this is almost (to me) a sidestep from the SL-68II, not an improvement overall.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2005 at 1:10pm
If I was still interested in paintball would be on my shopping list, but other hobbies now prevail. But few play paintball here in the OmaLincoln, NE area so no marker is worth it anymore. Just had the clear out the paintball gun box sale and I am left with one marker per family member, and 2 68 specials still on the market. Also dumped some serious money into airsoft guns, so the momma money approval rate is way low currently.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2005 at 1:12pm
I personally think it's a good idea, and it seems like it'd be pretty hard to blow yourself up with it. I still have a problem with the barrel. It doesn't look like you can easily replace it with a better one. Also, it doesn't have an anti-double feed device? That kinda sucks, but neither does my SL-68(well, if I can get it working after i get my parts from county). As for the high MSRP, wasn't the MSRP for the pro-carbine about $250 and it sold for about $100 less? I wouldn't take the MSRP too seriously at this point. However, I do see this marker sitting on the shelves because of all the kiddies who will inevitably think "OMG Propane? It's gonna blow up!" This gun is going to be doomed by ignorance.


As for how difficult it is to make a propane canister errupt into a fireball, I once shot one with an SKS (steel jacketed bullet with a light copper plating, think that'll make a spark?) next to a light candle in hopes of producing such a fireball. It made a big cloud of vapor as the propane turned from liquid to gas and it blew the candle out. It was a huge dissapointment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spudcrazy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2005 at 1:13pm

First of all, I have NO problems with pumps.  As a matter of fact, I wish more places had pump only days, as I'm 36 and can't keep up with the younger kids. 

Second, Rambino, your comment about speaking out of ignorance is uncalled for and ridiculous.  I do know alot about propane as it applies to not only spudguns, but household uses.  I don't doubt the efficiency and safety, as OS states.  My issue was and is, what OS said "[people] insist on doing STUPID things to create a problem".  So read what I said before calling me ignorant.

Third, the picture of the bulk tank means very little to me.  ***EDIT***Oops, Sorry Pandaman, I got the idea of the pictures and I agree***  Where was that picture taken???  OUTSIDE.  No problem.  Do you store bulk tanks, that can easily be turned on inside?  NO...If you do, then you're the ignorant one.  Things like stoves, heaters, dryers, fireplaces, etc.  aren't messed with by kids, they are "messed" with by licensed professionals, otherwise you won't be getting an insurance claim on your property if it blows up due to you fixing something like that.

As far as airsoft using propane, I admit, I had no idea.  However, I still find it dangerous for kids.  It's just like real firearms...I have no problem with firearms, as I personally own quite a few, but I would not let my kids touch them, unless properly trained.  However, I doubt any of these people that get the C3 will be properly trained for propane.

I also agree that propane CAN be safer than compressed gases, since propane is stored at low pressure.  But again, I emphasize the fact that it needs to be handled carefully and should NOT be modified.

I said I AM prepared to be flamed, but don't call me ignorant when you have no idea what my background is on this subject...  And read my original post.  My concern is with kids and propane and their curiousity with experimentation.

Shorty, I own a Pasload, too, I've never modified it, have you?  BTW, how's the house coming along??? 



Edited by spudcrazy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2005 at 1:19pm

For the people saying "ZOMG SOOO DANGEROUS", please consider this.

Propane tank = roughly 60psi

The HPA bottle you are using now = 4500psi

 


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