Tippmann Pneumatics Inc. Homepage
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedSniping Vs No sniping Poll

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 12>
Poll Question: Sniping or no sniping?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
79 [7.00%]
1020 [90.43%]
15 [1.33%]
9 [0.80%]
5 [0.44%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

Author
Rambino View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
I am even less fun in person

Joined: 15 August 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 16593
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 October 2005 at 6:56pm
The same rule applies to SpecOps forums as all other forums.  If any of our members start trouble there, there will be consequences here as well.
Back to Top
djrock View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar
Guested - Filter Dodge 01/13/06

Joined: 31 July 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1244
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 October 2005 at 7:23pm
Originally posted by Mitchthesniper Mitchthesniper wrote:

Originally posted by Snake6 Snake6 wrote:

I really dont want to go into this.

But oh well,

Here We GO!

Dear,

[X]Clueless Newbie
[ ] Loser
[ ] AOLer
[ ] 12 year old
[ ] Troll
[ ] Pervert
[ ] Geek
[ ] Spammer
[ ] Wannabe
[ ] Haxxor
[ ] l337 d00d
[ ] Flamer
[ ] Whiner
[ ] Other: Retard, failure, moron, impotent fool.
[ ] noobie

You Are Being Flamed Because

[ ] You have created another ingenious idea
[ ] you have managed to push the limits of what the term  moron stands for by posting something you would be flamed for
[ ] You continued a long, stupid thread
[ ] You committed crimes against pork biproducts
[ ] You posted a 'YOU ALL SUCK' message
[X] The search button is you freind
[ ] You don't know which forum to post in
[ ] You just plain suck
[ ] You posted false information
[ ] You posted something totally uninteresting
[ ] You double posted double posted
[ ] YOU POSTED A MESSAGE ALL WRITTEN IN CAPS
[ ] You posted racist mumbo jumbo
[ ] I don't like your tone of voice
[ ] You are not civilized enough to post in these forums
[ ] Yuo mispeled evry sengle wurd.
[ ] you have discriminated a product that you would be obviously  flamed for
[X] repeated beating of a horse

In Punishment, You Must:


[X]Apologize to everybody on this forum
[ ] Jump into a bathtub while holding your monitor
[ ] Actually post something relevant
[ ] Read the FAQ
[ ] Become big al'es love mama
[X] be slapped repeadily
[ ] neuter your self to further prevent any form of a defective gene pool
[ ] Go stand in the middle of a Highway
[ ] Recite the Greek alphabet backwards
[ ] Take a bath in bleach
[ ] Give M. Jackson a reason to be guilty
[ ] All of the above

In Closing, I'd Like to Say:

[ ] since you are new we will let it slid this time
[ ] Get a life
[X] Never post again
[ ] I pity your dog
[X] Your IQ must be 7
[ ] Just leave with the last of your dignity
[ ] Your mom should be ashamed
[X]Dont waste our time
[ ] Go jump into some industrial equipment
[ ] All of the above

Yours Truly,

Snake6

.

OUCH!!!  

 Nice Job Snake6

I have never seen a better post than that.


It's been changed jackass.
Back to Top
djrock View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar
Guested - Filter Dodge 01/13/06

Joined: 31 July 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1244
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 October 2005 at 7:27pm
Special Ops was a huge annoyance a few months ago with them and there brigade.

It's been changed jackass.
Back to Top
Jackal14 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Strike 1 - F-Bomb 10/25

Joined: 17 August 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 557
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 October 2005 at 9:45pm
Well i voted... they're are snipers in paintball... you can hate me for it, but w/e you wont change me mind !!! HAHA
-Tippmann 98 Custom
   14" J&J Ceramic
   Palmer Stab (Female-ASA)
-Tippmann 98 Custom
   12" Teardrop
Back to Top
Snake6 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Outranked by guitarguy?

Joined: 11 September 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 11227
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2005 at 7:39am

Originally posted by djrock djrock wrote:

Special Ops was a huge annoyance a few months ago with them and there brigade.

Yeah I love how thier pceople come on here and flam us about how thier all 1337 5n1p3r5 and when I go over thier and try to have a  true discussion with them, I get banned and the topic deleted. Because they know they are wrong but they are to stupid to just admit it and go on....

Back to Top
Sargent Duck View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 July 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 843
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2005 at 11:40am
I'm still under the impression that we (by "we", I mean the administrator) should open up a new forum called "sniping" or something. Any posts about sniping that show up in "new player forums" would be moved over into the sniper forum. That way, Spec Ops could come over and flame all they want, and it would just be moved to the "sniper" forum, leaving the rest of the forums free.
Ref: I want a nice clean game
player: but it's paintball!
Back to Top
Snake6 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Outranked by guitarguy?

Joined: 11 September 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 11227
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2005 at 1:26pm
Yeah, but admin doesnt care about us...
Back to Top
Jackal14 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Strike 1 - F-Bomb 10/25

Joined: 17 August 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 557
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2005 at 4:44pm
Snake6, what do you mean my your quote "Experiance, The Anti Sniper"?
-Tippmann 98 Custom
   14" J&J Ceramic
   Palmer Stab (Female-ASA)
-Tippmann 98 Custom
   12" Teardrop
Back to Top
kuhndog599 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar
Strike 1, Language 5/4

Joined: 13 December 2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 1015
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2005 at 6:31pm
to me it just depends what type of paintball u play. woodsball scenario yes.  the rest no
model 98 - homemade handguard
solid stock - opsgear mag
polished internals
homemade sling - paintjob
operator barrel
progressive barrel
opsgear mag - stock
Back to Top
You Wont See Me View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Found in Big Al’s underwear drawer

Joined: 02 December 2003
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 13330
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2005 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by Jackal14 Jackal14 wrote:

Snake6, what do you mean my your quote "Experiance, The Anti Sniper"?
With experience, you'll come to find out that theres no such thing.
Back to Top
Jackal14 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Strike 1 - F-Bomb 10/25

Joined: 17 August 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 557
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2005 at 7:07pm
ahhh you messed it all up YWSM !!!!! He was supposed to say i pwn snipers or something like that... and from there i would say lol thought there was no such things as snipers... pshhh thanks alooooottt you wont see mee pshh
-Tippmann 98 Custom
   14" J&J Ceramic
   Palmer Stab (Female-ASA)
-Tippmann 98 Custom
   12" Teardrop
Back to Top
You Wont See Me View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Found in Big Al’s underwear drawer

Joined: 02 December 2003
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 13330
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2005 at 8:00pm
I'm sorry for your loss.
Back to Top
djrock View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar
Guested - Filter Dodge 01/13/06

Joined: 31 July 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1244
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2005 at 8:05pm

Originally posted by You Wont See Me You Wont See Me wrote:

I'm sorry for your loss.

I'm just sorry you were found in some guys underwear drawer.



Edited by djrock

It's been changed jackass.
Back to Top
Sargent Duck View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 July 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 843
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2005 at 8:34pm
But isn't Big Al the only way to get a Super Chronium barrel?
Ref: I want a nice clean game
player: but it's paintball!
Back to Top
You Wont See Me View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Found in Big Al’s underwear drawer

Joined: 02 December 2003
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 13330
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2005 at 10:05pm
It helps the process along.
Back to Top
Clark Kent View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 July 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8716
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2005 at 10:31pm
And the Super Chromium, I hear, is an excellent SNIPER barrel.
Back to Top
SR_Crewchief View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 June 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2663
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2005 at 11:19pm
I can hear it now...the growns of "who woke the old man?" The answer is simple, everyone who has failed to pay attention to basic ballistics and small unit close tactics. It's very simple, the skills and tactics of a sniper do not effectively translate into the world of paintball...no matter how much your OPINION wants it too.

Now to take this a little more in depth...

BASIC Sniper Tactics and how they relate to paintball 101

First some basics need to be established. The game is paintball and for the purposes of this class it is played in the woods where the terrain dictates that youíll be engaging each other most of the time at between 20 and 25 meters. (In other words close range) It is played most often by 2 opposing sides of roughly equal size. For all intent and purposes this game is modeled on military small unit combat.

Now several you are going "whoo hoo, my kind of sniper country"Öwithout knowing what makes a sniper. Many of you have gone to the dictionary and found a reference saying something to the effect that a sniper is someone who fires from concealment and have used this a your basis for your claim to being one in paintball. That's all well and dandy, except you ignore the rest of the definition.

snip∑er ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sn p r)n. A skilled military shooter detailed to spot and pick off enemy soldiers from a concealed place. One who shoots at other people from a concealed place.

Source: The American Heritageģ Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth EditionCopyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Now youíll note that this expanded definition is still quite general in it scope, after all anyone who squats behind bush to fire is a sniper which is not the case.

So, since the dictionary has not resolved this we must consult the experts for a better definition of what makes a sniper in our chosen environment. It happens that Iíve had the opportunity to do just that from time to time in my 22 years in the Army.

In summary here are the extreme basics of what is an effective sniper:
∑ A superior marksman
∑ Expert knowledge in the art camouflage for concealment
∑ The ability to approach the target without being detected
∑ Engage the target from beyond effective range of return fire
∑ The ability to engage the target without revealing your position
∑ The ability to egress the area after successfully engaging the target without being positively identified and engaged

The first three of these points are possible in the game of paintball, but do not make you a sniper, they just take some training and practice.

Letís look at them one at a time.

A superior marksman

Basically someone whoís shooting skills are well above that of the average player. No big problem here, skill levels very, some people are just plain better than others.

Expert knowledge in the art camouflage for concealment

This one is a little tougher. It takes knowledge of what will fool the eye into not seeing what is really there. Itís still doable though. Trained military have an advantage over the someone whose camouflage skills are solely based on hunting. Not because the non-military hunter is any less skilled but because of who the camouflage is intended to fool. But once armed with the knowledge of what the differences are this isnít even a problem. So, yes this can be effectively applied to paintball.

The ability to approach the target without being detected

This one is a bigger problem. If just taken as being able to move close enough to a player that is already in place to make your shot undetected is very difficult. Since instinctively humans are hunters, our attention is automatically drawn to movement or things that are out of place. Itís takes someone that is extremely skilled in moving undected to pull this one off. But I have seen it done.

I should add to this the ability to setup a position that provides an undetected position from which to shoot that covers an area you expect your opponent to move through. A basic ambush.

Both require an undetected shooting position and can be effectively applied to paintball depending on skill level


The last three points are where the concept of a sniper in paintball fails.

Engage the target from beyond effective range of return fire

No matter what you do, as long as everyone has the same approximate muzzle velocity, everyone has about the same effective range. Yes, that means Flatlines too. While Flatlines do have the ability, do to an aerodynamic backspin, shoot farther than other barrel systems the paintball still loses velocity at the same rate. What this means is that a paintball from a flatline loses the energy to break its shell at the same rate as one fired from a conventional barrel. The advantage of the flatline is initial flat trajectory that paintball has, which allows someone to fire under foliage that would otherwise break the ball. (The first failed point in being an effective sniper)

The ability to engage the target without revealing your position

Since the effective range is around 20-25m means that when you fire you have effectively revealed your general position. What I mean is this. Your shooting from such a close range that either the pop of your ball leaving the barrel or the sound of your bolt cycling (or both) will give your general position away to anyone with average hearing as far away as 40m. Unless you are only engaging 1 or 2 people or are extremely lucking you yourself can now be effectively counted as a mission kill. (The second failed point in being an effective sniper)

The ability to egress the area after successfully engaging the target without being positively identified and engaged

What this means is the ability move to a new shooting position after having engaged a target without being detected and counter-engaged your self. Since itís been demonstrated that you canít effectively engage a target without revealing your initial shooting position and exposing yourself to effective counter fire this one automatically fails. (The third failed point in being an effective sniper)



Now just because you canít effectively apply all of the above tactics of what makes an effective sniper doesnít mean that the first 3 listed canít be applied to paintball. Do they make you a sniper? No. But they do give you the ability to setup an effective close ambush. Just a word of advice here, bring along several friends and you might even be effective at it.


Back to Top
>><< View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar
<<>>

Joined: 08 February 2004
Location: Byelorussian SSR
Status: Offline
Points: 1870
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2005 at 11:49pm

Originally posted by SR_Crewchief SR_Crewchief wrote:

I can hear it now...the growns of "who woke the old man?" The answer is simple, everyone who has failed to pay attention to basic ballistics and small unit close tactics. It's very simple, the skills and tactics of a sniper do not effectively translate into the world of paintball...no matter how much your OPINION wants it too.

Now to take this a little more in depth...

BASIC Sniper Tactics and how they relate to paintball 101

First some basics need to be established. The game is paintball and for the purposes of this class it is played in the woods where the terrain dictates that youíll be engaging each other most of the time at between 20 and 25 meters. (In other words close range) It is played most often by 2 opposing sides of roughly equal size. For all intent and purposes this game is modeled on military small unit combat.

Now several you are going "whoo hoo, my kind of sniper country"Öwithout knowing what makes a sniper. Many of you have gone to the dictionary and found a reference saying something to the effect that a sniper is someone who fires from concealment and have used this a your basis for your claim to being one in paintball. That's all well and dandy, except you ignore the rest of the definition.

snip∑er ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sn p r)n. A skilled military shooter detailed to spot and pick off enemy soldiers from a concealed place. One who shoots at other people from a concealed place.

Source: The American Heritageģ Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth EditionCopyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Now youíll note that this expanded definition is still quite general in it scope, after all anyone who squats behind bush to fire is a sniper which is not the case.

So, since the dictionary has not resolved this we must consult the experts for a better definition of what makes a sniper in our chosen environment. It happens that Iíve had the opportunity to do just that from time to time in my 22 years in the Army.

In summary here are the extreme basics of what is an effective sniper:
∑ A superior marksman
∑ Expert knowledge in the art camouflage for concealment
∑ The ability to approach the target without being detected
∑ Engage the target from beyond effective range of return fire
∑ The ability to engage the target without revealing your position
∑ The ability to egress the area after successfully engaging the target without being positively identified and engaged

The first three of these points are possible in the game of paintball, but do not make you a sniper, they just take some training and practice.

Letís look at them one at a time.

A superior marksman

Basically someone whoís shooting skills are well above that of the average player. No big problem here, skill levels very, some people are just plain better than others.

Expert knowledge in the art camouflage for concealment

This one is a little tougher. It takes knowledge of what will fool the eye into not seeing what is really there. Itís still doable though. Trained military have an advantage over the someone whose camouflage skills are solely based on hunting. Not because the non-military hunter is any less skilled but because of who the camouflage is intended to fool. But once armed with the knowledge of what the differences are this isnít even a problem. So, yes this can be effectively applied to paintball.

The ability to approach the target without being detected

This one is a bigger problem. If just taken as being able to move close enough to a player that is already in place to make your shot undetected is very difficult. Since instinctively humans are hunters, our attention is automatically drawn to movement or things that are out of place. Itís takes someone that is extremely skilled in moving undected to pull this one off. But I have seen it done.

I should add to this the ability to setup a position that provides an undetected position from which to shoot that covers an area you expect your opponent to move through. A basic ambush.

Both require an undetected shooting position and can be effectively applied to paintball depending on skill level


The last three points are where the concept of a sniper in paintball fails.

Engage the target from beyond effective range of return fire

No matter what you do, as long as everyone has the same approximate muzzle velocity, everyone has about the same effective range. Yes, that means Flatlines too. While Flatlines do have the ability, do to an aerodynamic backspin, shoot farther than other barrel systems the paintball still loses velocity at the same rate. What this means is that a paintball from a flatline loses the energy to break its shell at the same rate as one fired from a conventional barrel. The advantage of the flatline is initial flat trajectory that paintball has, which allows someone to fire under foliage that would otherwise break the ball. (The first failed point in being an effective sniper)

The ability to engage the target without revealing your position

Since the effective range is around 20-25m means that when you fire you have effectively revealed your general position. What I mean is this. Your shooting from such a close range that either the pop of your ball leaving the barrel or the sound of your bolt cycling (or both) will give your general position away to anyone with average hearing as far away as 40m. Unless you are only engaging 1 or 2 people or are extremely lucking you yourself can now be effectively counted as a mission kill. (The second failed point in being an effective sniper)

The ability to egress the area after successfully engaging the target without being positively identified and engaged

What this means is the ability move to a new shooting position after having engaged a target without being detected and counter-engaged your self. Since itís been demonstrated that you canít effectively engage a target without revealing your initial shooting position and exposing yourself to effective counter fire this one automatically fails. (The third failed point in being an effective sniper)



Now just because you canít effectively apply all of the above tactics of what makes an effective sniper doesnít mean that the first 3 listed canít be applied to paintball. Do they make you a sniper? No. But they do give you the ability to setup an effective close ambush. Just a word of advice here, bring along several friends and you might even be effective at it.


WAY WAY to long to read but of course i read it cause there is nothing else to do. heres my opinion there is no snipers in paintball simply because paintballs are inaccurate to a certain distance which isn't very far. there are people they "hide" which in paintball is pretty much going behind a tree and shooting. a real sniper in military are hundreds of yards away from people and making precise hits in paintball you are just shooting there is no precise shots unless your a foot away from people. But i know there are newbs that get all extrme about starting paintball to be a sniper but i think if your a sniper your scared to get shot you want to stay back and shoot but really i think newbs should be the first to run up middle and shoot it makes it alot easier to learn how to really play the game instead of trying to "snipe" people which never works by the time you actually shoot they hear where the sound is coming from so you can only stay concealed until you start shooting which is the whole point of the game

 

MY l33t sn1p3r barr3l is 50 1nch3s l0ng i can hit people from a mile away

i had to say something mean

Back to Top
Styro Folme View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Strike 1 - Rules 1 and 2

Joined: 28 February 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8087
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 October 2005 at 12:29am
well, "snipers" do exist.  lets face it, we can hate them, but they will keep their ghillie and call themselves snipers.  we say there is no sniping, but they push it.  how about this.  instead of flaming snipers, how about whenever you see them on the field, you shoot them?  THey will eventually give up sniping and go to normal play, if it is not a real playing style.  They will never continue with sniping, because they will get owned too badly.  But on the other hand, if they do continue with "sniping", then maybe it just works for them.....  There is no way either side is going to win.  lets just give up these stupid senceless threads and leave each other alone.  seriusly.
X
Back to Top
Clark Kent View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 July 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8716
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 October 2005 at 12:48am

I can't believe you people get this worked up over a silly disagreement about semantics.

As best I can tell, there is relatively little disagreement about actual tactics, but a bunch of disagreement about whether this tactic or that tactic qualifies as "sniper" under this definition or that definition.

*rolls eyes*

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.03

This page was generated in 0.219 seconds.