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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mehs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2005 at 3:39pm
You should play airsoft instead of paintball if you're going to want to be a "sniper", I think you'll have a lot more fun with that, try it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MP Sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2005 at 3:41pm
yeah i had airsoft wars before but the problem is finding people who also play it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mag-a-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2005 at 3:43pm
I see you have no one that plays paintball near you also because your off going down the wrong road.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MP Sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2005 at 3:45pm

Originally posted by Mag-a-Man Mag-a-Man wrote:

I see you have no one that plays paintball near you also because your off going down the wrong road.

i didnt quiet get that can u say it again

(i have plenty of paintballers near me and what road persay are u talking about)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2005 at 3:49pm
listen....if you want to talk about "sniping" and so on....fine...go ahead....but take it to spec ops or pbstar or somewhere we won't have to deal with you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mag-a-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2005 at 3:50pm
You have been guided into paintball the wrong way....the I wanna be a 1337 sn1pz0r way. I play woodsballs and recball I play woods all the time and i know I can do an action like crouch and take a few shots at someone when i see them the same distance you can but I do not call myself a sniper I call it more like getting around quietly see some one and shooting at them you could probley be in the same situation and be like Z0myG0d5 1 5n1P3D you soooo bad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2005 at 3:53pm
K, instead of starting a whole new thread, go find a thread already on the topic (there is one in ideas) and "debate" there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MP Sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2005 at 3:57pm

wow u have a few very odd ways of spelling sniper but thats besides the point, the difference between that and what i do is that i actually aim at the head for a head shot, i am famous for my head shots i have kept count since the first time i started playing and i got about 448 head shots since i started.

P.S. i started playing paintball serriously every thursday since may of 2005

Edit:and my field stoped playing on thursdays in july and augest then started back up in augest 18



Edited by MP Sniper
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2005 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by MP Sniper MP Sniper wrote:

wow u have a few very odd ways of spelling sniper but thats besides the point, the difference between that and what i do is that i actually aim at the head for a head shot, i on my famous head shots i have kept count since the first time i started playing and i got about 448 head shots since i started.

P.S. i started playing paintball serriously every thursday since may of 2005



Originally posted by Darur Darur wrote:

K, instead of starting a whole new thread, go find a thread already on the topic (there is one in ideas) and "debate" there.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bango Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2005 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by MP Sniper MP Sniper wrote:

wow u have a few very odd ways of spelling sniper but thats besides the point, the difference between that and what i do is that i actually aim at the head for a head shot, i am famous for my head shots i have kept count since the first time i started playing and i got about 448 head shots since i started.

P.S. i started playing paintball serriously every thursday since may of 2005

Edit:and my field stoped playing on thursdays in july and augest then started back up in augest 18



Getting headshots doesn't make you a sniper. I'm guessing real snipers wouldn't even go for the head since the chances of missing would increase.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MP Sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2005 at 4:01pm



Originally posted by Darur Darur wrote:

K, instead of starting a whole new thread, go find a thread already on the topic (there is one in ideas) and "debate" there.

  [/QUOTE]

yeah i was going to do that but how many people actually read the last page of a topic in the forums unless it was intresting

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MP Sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2005 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by Bango Bango wrote:

Originally posted by MP Sniper MP Sniper wrote:

wow u have a few very odd ways of spelling sniper but thats besides the point, the difference between that and what i do is that i actually aim at the head for a head shot, i am famous for my head shots i have kept count since the first time i started playing and i got about 448 head shots since i started.

P.S. i started playing paintball serriously every thursday since may of 2005

Edit:and my field stoped playing on thursdays in july and augest then started back up in augest 18



Getting headshots doesn't make you a sniper. I'm guessing real snipers wouldn't even go for the head since the chances of missing would increase.

yes but if ur a good enough shot those head shots are very easy

i mean i sight in my gun every time before i go paintballing because i would hate to miss and hit some where else possibly the neck or back of head



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2005 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by MP Sniper MP Sniper wrote:



Originally posted by Darur Darur wrote:

K, instead of starting a whole new thread, go find a thread already on the topic (there is one in ideas) and "debate" there.


yeah i was going to do that but how many people actually read the last page of a topic in the forums unless it was intresting

 



No, most people read the last page and skip the first few.

Post in that thread or dont post at all.  Capeesh?

Edited by Darur
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2005 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by MP Sniper MP Sniper wrote:

wow u have a few very odd ways of spelling sniper but thats besides the point, the difference between that and what i do is that i actually aim at the head for a head shot, i am famous for my head shots i have kept count since the first time i started playing and i got about 448 head shots since i started.

P.S. i started playing paintball serriously every thursday since may of 2005

Edit:and my field stoped playing on thursdays in july and augest then started back up in augest 18


i really have to thank you for that one...i haven't laughed that much since I can't remember when.

what your sayign is that (even with the maximum 12 thursdays that could have occured) you average over 37 headshots a night....... I don't know about you, but, if I take the average number of games I play in a whole DAY of playing(about 15-17), you are telling us you get almost 3 headshots per game......


nice try


Edited by usafpilot07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SR_Crewchief Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2005 at 4:07pm
The old tried and true lesson plan comes out again.

Read Learn Use

First some basics need to be established. The game is paintball and for the purposes of this class it is played in the woods where the terrain dictates that youíll be engaging each other most of the time at between 20 and 25 meters. (In other words close range) It is played most often by 2 opposing sides of roughly equal size. For all intent and purposes this game is modeled on military small unit combat.

Now several you are going "whoo hoo, my kind of sniper country"Öwithout knowing what makes a sniper. Many of you have gone to the dictionary and found a reference saying something to the effect that a sniper is someone who fires from concealment and have used this a your basis for your claim to being one in paintball. That's all well and dandy, except you ignore the rest of the definition.

snip∑er ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sn p r)n. A skilled military shooter detailed to spot and pick off enemy soldiers from a concealed place. One who shoots at other people from a concealed place.

Source: The American Heritageģ Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth EditionCopyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Now youíll note that this expanded definition is still quite general in it scope, after all anyone who squats behind bush to fire is a sniper which is not the case.

So, since the dictionary has not resolved this we must consult the experts for a better definition of what makes a sniper in our chosen environment. It happens that Iíve had the opportunity to do just that from time to time in my 22 years in the Army.

In summary here are the extreme basics of what is an effective sniper:
∑ A superior marksman
∑ Expert knowledge in the art camouflage for concealment
∑ The ability to approach the target without being detected
∑ Engage the target from beyond effective range of return fire
∑ The ability to engage the target without revealing your position
∑ The ability to egress the area after successfully engaging the target without being positively identified and engaged

The first three of these points are possible in the game of paintball, but do not make you a sniper, they just take some training and practice.

Letís look at them one at a time.

A superior marksman

Basically someone whoís shooting skills are well above that of the average player. No big problem here, skill levels very, some people are just plain better than others.

Expert knowledge in the art camouflage for concealment

This one is a little tougher. It takes knowledge of what will fool the eye into not seeing what is really there. Itís still doable though. Trained military have an advantage over the someone whose camouflage skills are solely based on hunting. Not because the non-military hunter is any less skilled but because of who the camouflage is intended to fool. But once armed with the knowledge of what the differences are this isnít even a problem. So, yes this can be effectively applied to paintball.

The ability to approach the target without being detected

This one is a bigger problem. If just taken as being able to move close enough to a player that is already in place to make your shot undetected is very difficult. Since instinctively humans are hunters, our attention is automatically drawn to movement or things that are out of place. Itís takes someone that is extremely skilled in moving undected to pull this one off. But I have seen it done.

I should add to this the ability to setup a position that provides an undetected position from which to shoot that covers an area you expect your opponent to move through. A basic ambush.

Both require an undetected shooting position and can be effectively applied to paintball depending on skill level


The last three points are where the concept of a sniper in paintball fails.

Engage the target from beyond effective range of return fire

No matter what you do, as long as everyone has the same approximate muzzle velocity, everyone has about the same effective range. Yes, that means Flatlines too. While Flatlines do have the ability, do to an aerodynamic backspin, shoot farther than other barrel systems the paintball still loses velocity at the same rate. What this means is that a paintball from a flatline loses the energy to break its shell at the same rate as one fired from a conventional barrel. The advantage of the flatline is initial flat trajectory that paintball has, which allows someone to fire under foliage that would otherwise break the ball. (The first failed point in being an effective sniper)

The ability to engage the target without revealing your position

Since the effective range is around 20-25m means that when you fire you have effectively revealed your general position. What I mean is this. Your shooting from such a close range that either the pop of your ball leaving the barrel or the sound of your bolt cycling (or both) will give your general position away to anyone with average hearing as far away as 40m. Unless you are only engaging 1 or 2 people or are extremely lucking you yourself can now be effectively counted as a mission kill. (The second failed point in being an effective sniper)

The ability to egress the area after successfully engaging the target without being positively identified and engaged

What this means is the ability move to a new shooting position after having engaged a target without being detected and counter-engaged your self. Since itís been demonstrated that you canít effectively engage a target without revealing your initial shooting position and exposing yourself to effective counter fire this one automatically fails. (The third failed point in being an effective sniper)



Now just because you canít effectively apply all of the above tactics of what makes an effective sniper doesnít mean that the first 3 listed canít be applied to paintball. Do they make you a sniper? No. But they do give you the ability to setup an effective close ambush. Just a word of advice here, bring along several friends and you might even be effective at it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MP Sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2005 at 4:07pm

o hey, darur, your that famous anti-sniper guy right, so do u have any thing to add to this other than say post in a new thread

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2005 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by MP Sniper MP Sniper wrote:

o hey, darur, your that famous anti-sniper guy right, so do u have any thing to add to this other than say post in a new thread

 



Post in the other thread

Seriously, there is NO point you have brought up that hasnt been brought up in there.  Speaking of whcih though I still need to respond to Mack's post, I have half my rebuttle finished
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MP Sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2005 at 4:35pm

Originally posted by SR_Crewchief SR_Crewchief wrote:

The old tried and true lesson plan comes out again.

Read Learn Use

First some basics need to be established. The game is paintball and for the purposes of this class it is played in the woods where the terrain dictates that youíll be engaging each other most of the time at between 20 and 25 meters. (In other words close range) It is played most often by 2 opposing sides of roughly equal size. For all intent and purposes this game is modeled on military small unit combat.

Now several you are going "whoo hoo, my kind of sniper country"Öwithout knowing what makes a sniper. Many of you have gone to the dictionary and found a reference saying something to the effect that a sniper is someone who fires from concealment and have used this a your basis for your claim to being one in paintball. That's all well and dandy, except you ignore the rest of the definition.

snip∑er ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sn p r)n. A skilled military shooter detailed to spot and pick off enemy soldiers from a concealed place. One who shoots at other people from a concealed place.

Source: The American Heritageģ Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth EditionCopyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Now youíll note that this expanded definition is still quite general in it scope, after all anyone who squats behind bush to fire is a sniper which is not the case.

So, since the dictionary has not resolved this we must consult the experts for a better definition of what makes a sniper in our chosen environment. It happens that Iíve had the opportunity to do just that from time to time in my 22 years in the Army.

In summary here are the extreme basics of what is an effective sniper:
∑ A superior marksman
∑ Expert knowledge in the art camouflage for concealment
∑ The ability to approach the target without being detected
∑ Engage the target from beyond effective range of return fire
∑ The ability to engage the target without revealing your position
∑ The ability to egress the area after successfully engaging the target without being positively identified and engaged

The first three of these points are possible in the game of paintball, but do not make you a sniper, they just take some training and practice.

Letís look at them one at a time.

A superior marksman

Basically someone whoís shooting skills are well above that of the average player. No big problem here, skill levels very, some people are just plain better than others.

Expert knowledge in the art camouflage for concealment

This one is a little tougher. It takes knowledge of what will fool the eye into not seeing what is really there. Itís still doable though. Trained military have an advantage over the someone whose camouflage skills are solely based on hunting. Not because the non-military hunter is any less skilled but because of who the camouflage is intended to fool. But once armed with the knowledge of what the differences are this isnít even a problem. So, yes this can be effectively applied to paintball.

The ability to approach the target without being detected

This one is a bigger problem. If just taken as being able to move close enough to a player that is already in place to make your shot undetected is very difficult. Since instinctively humans are hunters, our attention is automatically drawn to movement or things that are out of place. Itís takes someone that is extremely skilled in moving undected to pull this one off. But I have seen it done.

I should add to this the ability to setup a position that provides an undetected position from which to shoot that covers an area you expect your opponent to move through. A basic ambush.

Both require an undetected shooting position and can be effectively applied to paintball depending on skill level


The last three points are where the concept of a sniper in paintball fails.

Engage the target from beyond effective range of return fire

No matter what you do, as long as everyone has the same approximate muzzle velocity, everyone has about the same effective range. Yes, that means Flatlines too. While Flatlines do have the ability, do to an aerodynamic backspin, shoot farther than other barrel systems the paintball still loses velocity at the same rate. What this means is that a paintball from a flatline loses the energy to break its shell at the same rate as one fired from a conventional barrel. The advantage of the flatline is initial flat trajectory that paintball has, which allows someone to fire under foliage that would otherwise break the ball. (The first failed point in being an effective sniper)

The ability to engage the target without revealing your position

Since the effective range is around 20-25m means that when you fire you have effectively revealed your general position. What I mean is this. Your shooting from such a close range that either the pop of your ball leaving the barrel or the sound of your bolt cycling (or both) will give your general position away to anyone with average hearing as far away as 40m. Unless you are only engaging 1 or 2 people or are extremely lucking you yourself can now be effectively counted as a mission kill. (The second failed point in being an effective sniper)

The ability to egress the area after successfully engaging the target without being positively identified and engaged

What this means is the ability move to a new shooting position after having engaged a target without being detected and counter-engaged your self. Since itís been demonstrated that you canít effectively engage a target without revealing your initial shooting position and exposing yourself to effective counter fire this one automatically fails. (The third failed point in being an effective sniper)



Now just because you canít effectively apply all of the above tactics of what makes an effective sniper doesnít mean that the first 3 listed canít be applied to paintball. Do they make you a sniper? No. But they do give you the ability to setup an effective close ambush. Just a word of advice here, bring along several friends and you might even be effective at it.


this is about me replying to crewcheif

∑ A superior marksman

i have shot many guns both competitively and just for fun at a privet shooting range that i go too

∑ Expert knowledge in the art camouflage for concealment

i hunt so i have a lot of knowledge of camoflage since i hunt shotgun, muzzleloader, and bow and have never spooked a deer in my life time with out it being on purpose

∑ The ability to approach the target without being detected

i do this every time i hunt especially when i spot a deer from a far and then i would stalk the deer untill iam in effective shooting range that is when iam bow hunting.

∑ Engage the target from beyond effective range of return fire

this cant really be refered to as in hunting of in shooting competitively this can only be refered to in war or i guess u can say in paintball

∑ The ability to engage the target without revealing your position

this is very easy all u need is the right barrel and the right equipment

∑ The ability to egress the area after successfully engaging the target without being positively identified and engaged

yes u can and i will use this tactic when ever i play paintball and i can move through the brush with out making a noise

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2005 at 4:39pm

We are talking about PAINTBALL not hunting. Hunting and paintball are compleatly differnet and cannot be compared in the same topic.

Without your "hunting" examples your points fall flat.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2005 at 4:41pm
In hunting your target is usually color blind . . .
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