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Jim Paint View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Paint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2005 at 7:04pm
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Ummm... It is either in the Book of Mormon or Pearl of Great Price. Thanks for that link. I guess I could have found that myself but I wouldnt have been sure if people here belived in that version....

What about the Baptists believes of the devil?


Well, Its catholic. Im close enough.
And Id guess baptist, methodist, nazarene, etc. would all have the same view.
 



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Hades View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2005 at 7:08pm
Thanks I will look at it tommorow on my day off.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heres To You Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2005 at 8:31pm
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Either or both. I want to know how other religion's view the source of evil and the person that tempts them. i realise that some religions dont believe in a devil but fot those that do, what is the background on it....


Long story short....

Satan used to be an angle, and wanted to be as powerful as God.  He gathered up a bunch of fellow angels, and as soon as God saw that, he was sent out of heaven, because sin can't be in the eyes of God.

That is extremely watered down, and paraphrased, but I didn't wanna make an extremely long post...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2005 at 9:12pm
Originally posted by Heres To You Heres To You wrote:

Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Either or both. I want to know how other religion's view
the source of evil and the person that tempts them. i realise that some
religions dont believe in a devil but fot those that do, what is the
background on it....


Long story short....

Satan used to be an angle, and wanted to be as powerful as God.
He gathered up a bunch of fellow angels, and as soon as God saw that,
he was sent out of heaven, because sin can't be in the eyes of God.

That is extremely watered down, and paraphrased, but I didn't wanna make an extremely long post...


Eh... Lucifer thought he should be higher than god, or equal to him.

But you are talking about the angelic rebelion over the angels being made to serve man, before this, the angels had free will and could think for themselves. There was a civil war and the angels were cast out. Then a new cast of angels were made, without free will and that mess. 3 out of the four archangels remained faithful. Different members of the different chorus' of angels were cast out, and a number of nutural parties as well.

The angels that were cast out, and the demons we have today, there are also creatures that are native to hell, but thats a completely different subject.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frank Zappa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2005 at 9:49pm
I need a link or pm for more info on that.

It would be some good reading for me.
It's all a conspiracy.

Edgar Cayce>you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2005 at 12:08am
I was under the impression sinning is a human thing, hence babies are sin free. How can Angels have committed sin?

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Darur View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2005 at 12:15am
Do the forum athiests really have to jump all over this thread and turn it into a debate on if God is real or not?

Yeesh, and you say Christians force their views.


Edited by Darur
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2005 at 12:19am
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

I was under the impression sinning is a human thing, hence babies are sin free. How can Angels have committed sin?


There were two "batches" of angels. The first batch had free will. They were capable of all maner of sin. The second batch god corrected the first mistake, and he made them without free will.
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Hades View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2005 at 2:12am
Originally posted by Darur Darur wrote:


Do the forum athiests really have to jump all over this thread and turn it into a debate on if God is real or not?


Good thing I am not athesist so your not talking to me.

Cedric knows where I stand on this.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2005 at 2:20am
Just read it, sorry to hear it cedric.
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Jim Paint View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Paint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2005 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

I was under the impression sinning is a human thing, hence babies are sin free. How can Angels have committed sin?


Babies arent sin free.  Original sin- Adam and Eve.
 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2005 at 4:48pm
Yeah, babies aint sin free. At least in theory. God says we are responsible for what we know. And, a baby knows only life. So, we cant hold children in the same light as your average person.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2005 at 5:04pm
So in other words all humankind is doomed from the start? Because some 4000 year old woman/man ate from the tree of forbiden fruit, I have to go to hell granted I dont repent for other people's sins?

What is the point of being born than? Maybe abortions save spirit's lives...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2005 at 5:06pm
No. Like I said. The bible says that we are responsible for what we know. So, a baby, that dies, doesnt go to hell.

Some guy in the middle of no where, wont go to hell when he dies.

You have to be presented with god, to reject him. God doesnt fault you for ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2005 at 5:12pm
So a child at the age of three, is taught in Sunday school that God exists and the commandment. The child then goes home and in the car, cries and throws a tantrum despite mommy and daddy telling it to stop.

The child isnt honoring its parent's thus breaking the commandment telling it to do so.

Bam!!! A semi plows into the familys ford escort and all instantly die.

See you in Hell baby....

Also I think Jim's version is different than yours, DB which is what my previous post was refering too.

Edited by Hades

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hitman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2005 at 5:16pm
Those babies are what people in hell get too eat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Paint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2005 at 5:19pm
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

So in other words all humankind is doomed from the start? Because some 4000 year old woman/man ate from the tree of forbiden fruit, I have to go to hell granted I dont repent for other people's sins?

What is the point of being born than? Maybe abortions save spirit's lives...


Abortion is after conception, so thats out the window.

They have sin, but thats what baptism is.
 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2005 at 5:19pm
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

So a child at the age of three, is taught in Sunday school that God exists and the commandment. The child then goes home and in the car, cries and throws a tantrum despite mommy and daddy telling it to stop.

The child isnt honoring its parent's thus breaking the commandment telling it to do so.

Bam!!! A semi plows into the familys ford escort and all instantly die.

See you in Hell baby....

Also I think Jim's version is different than yours, DB which is what my previous post was refering too.


A baby wont go to hell because he is colicky... Stop trying to make god out to look like the big bad wolf. People that lead a life of sin, or are too proud to admit there is a god, go to hell, not what you are talkin about and such.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2005 at 5:25pm
Rules are rules though. Why have a book of rules if God doesnt have to follow or enforce them in the end?

Why wouldnt God sent that kid to Hell? It sinned and never repented for them.

Since when is God allowed to have loopholes? If he can create them for sinning babies, he can create them for hardcore sinners and "athesists."

Also God is a Big Bad Wolf. He killed all the people on the Earth when he flooded it. Also Sodom and Gomorha was completely destroyed. I am sure there were some innocent kids killed in that one... The list goes on and on.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2005 at 5:29pm
Well, if you research angelology, you will find that the area flooded was not the entire earth, it was the known world, its a mistake in translation. It was more of a large valley. Mesopotamia.

And god will not send small children to hell. Children naturaly go to god and christ. Jesus talks about this specificly in the bible.

And yes. God has decimated cities in the past, he killed everyone in that flood. But that doesnt mean he should be likened to a blood thirsty beast.

Edited by DBibeau855
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