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Battle of New Orleans

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DBibeau855 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 1:40pm
The ACLU would throw a hissy fit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dazed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by Betterdays Betterdays wrote:

Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

Im curious, these people saw this huricane comming. I cant help but feel that with weather advances like we have now, where we can see a storm comming days in advance, its their own fault for not leaving town.

Partially yes it is, but in this case many people were to poor to leave. They had no place to go and no money to get there anyway.


He's right, over 40% of the residents in New Orleans alone(just inside the city proper, not counting outlying neighborhoods or those just outside of the citylimits signs) are below the poverty level. How many of those people do you think had cars, or enough cash to scrape up and buy a family's worth of the overpriced, very scarce, bus tickets the day or two before it hit? Let alone money for hotel rooms, food, or anything like that?

I'm more disappointed in the government at this point. Why has it taken so long to get a task force down there thats comparable to the amount of damage done? They knew it was coming and knew how bad it was most likely going to be, but couldn't have the units prepped and ready to go by Tuesday morning? They aren't going to finish getting troops down until friday or later. I understand that some units will take a while and you don't want everyone in each others way but you might have stopped some of the looting and even saved a few more lives if these 28000 men had been ready to go as soon as the wind died down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ShortyBP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by Dazed Dazed wrote:

I'm more disappointed in the government at this point. Why has it taken so long to get a task force down there thats comparable to the amount of damage done? They knew it was coming and knew how bad it was most likely going to be, but couldn't have the units prepped and ready to go by Tuesday morning?
Two reasons:

1. How do you get them down there? And where do you deploy them? Infrastructure is ashambles. The roads, the riverways... all of the normal means of getting people to where they need to be... inaccessible. You can only do so much, and I truly believe they're doing all they can possibly do.

2. If you recall the initial coverage... New Orleans was SPARED from damage after the hurricane blew through. It was areas like Biloxi that were decimated. The levees didn't break until when? Sometime on Monday? And when they did, you're faced with all of the issues stemming from reason 1.

Nothing is easy. And Gubmint isnt capable of miracles. It sickens me when people complain that we did so much for the Pacific Tsunami victims but are doing nothing to help our own citizens (not in direct reference to you Dazed). Like others in the world, they expect the government has the capability to be everywhere and do everything. With a disaster of this magnitude, it takes TIME to provide aid. Given the area involved, the number of victims, and the severity of the damage to everything including the means of getting to the affected areas... it's not an overnight endeavor. No matter how well help is pre-positioned, something of this scale is not a simple or quick task.

Edited by ShortyBP
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ShortyBP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

The ACLU would throw a hissy fit.
Of course they would. How dare we shoot at armed thugs! Forget about rescuing the victims in need, or restoring order... protect the thugs!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by ShortyBP ShortyBP wrote:

Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

The ACLU would throw a hissy fit.
Of course they would. How dare we shoot at armed thugs! Forget about rescuing the victims in need, or restoring order... protect the thugs!


Of course. It would be. "Marshal Thomas shot a black man looting a store. He violated his civil rights as a human being!"

This sort of stuff is why i dont really like the ACLU.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 2:21pm

If you guys want to make up strawmen to attacks, that is fine, I guess...

But simply put - under the laws of all 50 states, it would be MURDER if the police/National Guard (or anybody else) just started shooting looters on sight.  The ACLU has nothing to do with that.

It would be illegal for the government to suddenly declare such a policy.

Looters are criminals, yes, and should be arrested and tried in accordance with laws.  That's why we have the laws to begin with.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 2:25pm
Shorty was talking about shooting armed thugs. Not just looters. I dont have any problem with it whatsoever. These people want to take advantage of a horrible situation and prey upon their neibhoors like animals. Shoot them like dogs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 2:26pm
That's fine - YOU don't have a problem with shooting "armed thugs" (whatever that means).  It is still against the law, and for good reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reclusivetorrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

If you guys want to make up strawmen to attacks, that is fine, I guess...


But simply put - under the laws of all 50 states, it would be MURDER if the police/National Guard (or anybody else) just started shooting looters on sight.  The ACLU has nothing to do with that.


It would be illegal for the government to suddenly declare such a policy.


Looters are criminals, yes, and should be arrested and tried in accordance with laws.  That's why we have the laws to begin with.



I would like to see the looters shot...but you are correct. They are criminals, and need to be tried as such. Maybe a little harsher than normal, because of the circumstances, but they do deserve a trial.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

That's fine - YOU don't have a problem with shooting "armed thugs" (whatever that means). It is still against the law, and for good reason.


If marshal law is declared. Cant they can shoot an armed person commiting a crime free and clear?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ShortyBP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 2:40pm
Martial Law does not exist in Louisiana... just looked that up. Best they can do is "state of emergency" whereas officers have the authority to forego miranda rights and come civil liberties in combating crime.

So we can't shoot them. So I guess we just let them free and forget about order. Can't arrest them if your patrol cars are all flooded out and your jails are destroyed. So let anarchy reign...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluemunky42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 2:42pm
it's pretty much anarchy down there now, in american government today my teacher showed the class some pictures of cops in uniform robbing stores.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whoknowswho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 2:44pm
I understand that Oklahoma is sending a lot of soldiers to help out in Lousiana within a few days. As far as I'm concerned, if a looter gets himself shot because he is a moron and thought that he could ignore being told to stop and drop his gun, that is what the thieving idiot gets.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 2:44pm
Cant the president declare martial law? Would federal law superseed the state regulations on the subject?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reifidom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

Cant the president declare martial law? Would federal law superseed the state regulations on the subject?


I thought they had in some areas.

In any case, I want to know what the hell people are shooting at evac. personnel for. Now a hospital has had to stop evacuating because of sniper fire.

Edited by reifidom

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whoknowswho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 2:47pm
^^ Those people also don't deserve standing room on earth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by reifidom reifidom wrote:

Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

Cant the president declare martial law? Would federal law superseed the state regulations on the subject?


I thought they had in some areas.

In any case, I want to know what the hell people are shooting at evac. personnel for. Now a hospital has had to stop evacuating because of sniper fire.


Easy solution. Shoot. Them. Dead.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Paint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 2:51pm
/agrees with OS.

We don't want the New Orleanians to hate us, so we should leave them be.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dazed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 2:53pm
Actually Shorty, my comment stemmed from the reference of how much forwarning the citizens hard to get out. If they had the forewarning, they got it from the government. If the government knows that the proverbial poo is going to be thrown trough the fan, why aren't they already ready to run salvage operations based on the worst case scenarios that they've released to the public?

I live in Alabama. For my entire life, I can remember knowing when a hurricane was coming simply by seeing hundreds of power company trucks, tree removal trucks, and water utility trucks in a line of traffic heading south to ride out the hurricane, then be there ready to work as soon as its semi-safe to start. If these private companies can have hudreds to thousands of people there and in place before the storm gets there I don't see why the government can't have done it too.

How many regular army guys could have been pulled of their weekend leave and told "You will be in northern LA and MS by monday morning. Buy tuesday morning, you will be walking the streets by company looking for survivors, anyone you find that can be moved will be sent to point X, any place that has open live powerlines, people too injured to be easily moved, or structure to damaged to move about in, or move to look under, will be marked by its gps coordinates and the request be processed to the right people(Corps of Engineers, Med-Evac, or civilian power, etc.) and you move on. During and after you may be reassigned to start helping clear debris, safeguard against looting in badly damaged areas(which they had to know was a threat. Looters are always a threat), start collecting the dead, or moved to areas that need more men to move people. Whatever else we end up doing, getting help, food, medical attention, and water to those that don't have it afterwards is the most critical, everything else can come after the immediate relief is met.

I understand that this is more relief much faster than we sent to the Indian Ocean, and that things can't be mobilized over night. But my gripe is that up until the storm broke track about 4-6 hourse before landfall, it was on a dead aim for New Orleans. Every scenario that dealt with this situation said that it would be one of the worst things to happen on american soil ever, and yet how many men were "ready to go" and provide some sort of relief instantaneously? Bilouxi would have appreciated 10-15000 soldiers sifting for survivors under houses monday night, instead of two thousand providing meals and medical aid to those brought in by medevac choppers and their own two feet.

Our armed forces have an awesome number of skilled emergency rescue, medical, and support personnel. But in a case like this, I think they've overlooked a major resource: thousands of young men and women in good shape, readily available, with basic first aid training, and more than willing to go sift through rubble for the dead or take food and fresh water to survivors. Sometimes specialists aren't needed so much as numbers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 2:55pm
nt

Edited by oldsoldier
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