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Styro Folme View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styro Folme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 7:56pm
i don't understand why you need half a hopper to get someone out....... i play tournement speedball with Phantoms and mech cockers..............  And sometimes when i feel lazy or feel like showing off i use my Classic Timmy with a stock board.  Even with the cocker and timmy, i take single shots or small bursts.  I agree with the guy that said he kicked people out of his field when they where caught cheating.  I think that's what the NPPL needs to do.  Who cares if they take 2 people out for one person cheating when all they gotta do if push a button and mow muppets effortlessly.....The NPPL is a horrible example of the honer side of paintball. 
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bluemunky42 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluemunky42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 8:00pm
you don't need half a hopper, it just makes it easier. laning is the key.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acidicpaint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 8:09pm
i hate it wen ppl cheat....  anytime  im  playing  recreational  on this field me and my frends made and sum1 cheats we make the cheater stand about 30yards away and the opposite  team gets 1 shot for each player to hit him/her. It mite seem unrullly but it works no one cheats on our field.

As in a real public field i say what happens, happens...if the guy cheats...get even..
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Styro Folme View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styro Folme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 8:11pm
^ your pretty cool for a new guy lol.  Me and my team made a pact.  If somone get's cought cheating, we let him stand about 20 feet away and let him run while the team is shooting at him. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArmySyko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 8:24pm
Ref just need to carry tach's and check out firing rates either as the match starts or as soon as it's over.  Is ramping a programmed thing or can you do it on the fly?  It would seem to me that a ref could grab someone's marker after a match and walk through all of the firings to make sure they weren't overclocked.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Wont See Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 9:37pm
The problem is, with the new "cheater boards" the ramping is turned on by a rythm of pulling the trigger and then can be turned off by simply not pulling the trigger for like 2 seconds. Then the ramping is virtually undectectable because everytime a ref comes to check you you stop firing for like 2 seconds untill the ramping turns itself off. THen when he leaves you just turn it back on.
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Styro Folme View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styro Folme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 10:01pm
whoever made cheater boards needs to have lemons stapled to their eyes......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hybrid-sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 10:03pm

Originally posted by You Wont See Me You Wont See Me wrote:

The problem is, with the new "cheater boards" the ramping is turned on by a rythm of pulling the trigger and then can be turned off by simply not pulling the trigger for like 2 seconds. Then the ramping is virtually undectectable because everytime a ref comes to check you you stop firing for like 2 seconds untill the ramping turns itself off. THen when he leaves you just turn it back on.

Ah, the Speedy's.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 11:14pm
Originally posted by TRC1040 TRC1040 wrote:

Not exactly, are you going to say that the men in Iraq are guppies casue the M16 is full auto, in woods ball there is normaly like one person that is semi like a sniper, and most other people have the fast guns. That's how it works out for me most of the time.



M16's aren't full auto, smart man. One variant used in the Vietnam war was, they aren't anymore. They come in semi-auto and 3 burst modes.

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Rambino View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rambino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 11:17pm
But M4's are full auto, and they are also in wide-spread military and law enforcement use, as well as MP3's, M60s, and a variety of other nifty toys.  His point stands, even if his weapons trivia is a little out of date.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rambino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2005 at 11:19pm

Originally posted by You Wont See Me You Wont See Me wrote:

The problem is, with the new "cheater boards" the ramping is turned on by a rythm of pulling the trigger and then can be turned off by simply not pulling the trigger for like 2 seconds. Then the ramping is virtually undectectable because everytime a ref comes to check you you stop firing for like 2 seconds untill the ramping turns itself off. THen when he leaves you just turn it back on.

This, to me, is the best possible argument why there shouldn't be any rules at all about firing modes.  It's basically an unenforceable rule.

A much easier way to control ROF (if in fact we want to do that) is to limit the amount of paint you can carry.  If going from 20bps to 12bps means you won't run out of paint, that will tend to limit your crazy shooting.

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Bruce A. Frank View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2005 at 12:18am

Originally posted by cdacda13 cdacda13 wrote:

I cheat, get used to it.

"Never foget, God hasn't finshed with me yet"

 

You cheat? Sounds like God has his work cut out trying to fix you.

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Bruce A. Frank View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2005 at 12:39am

Originally posted by tightness79 tightness79 wrote:

What does ramping do?

It is a program on the electronic control boards that allow scum bag players to increase rate of fire, ball velocity or both during play. The cheat mode starts up with certain trigger pull sequences or as rate of pull increases. The intension is to have a marker that works normally as a semi-auto in the chrono shack or when the ref checks you on the field.

Saw a chrono check on the field a couple of weeks ago where the ref told the player to fire three shots. The ref recorded  300, 400 then 500 fps in those three shots. The ref kicked him off the field. Should have banned him for life.

I have been hit by a ball going 500 fps on my calf through heavy weight Levis. The spot didn't bruise, it was turned to hamburger. The injury took 4 weeks to heal. 500 fps punched through an old pair of goggles on which I tested that velocity. I hope when cdacda13 finally injures someone seriously they bring criminal charges against him.

Even at 300 fps I can knock your goggles off your face with a 1.5 second burst at 30 bps.

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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2005 at 12:44am

This is only the second time I have every heard of "velocity ramping".  I can't speak to that.

But ROF ramping is fairly common, and is PERMITTED on many fields, as well as under current XPL rules.  So it is a bit of a generalization to use terms like "scum bag" and "cheat mode" when describing this technology.  Both the Tippmann E-Grip and E-Bolt have a Turbo (ramping) mode, for instance.

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Bruce A. Frank View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2005 at 1:35am
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

This is only the second time I have every heard of "velocity ramping".  I can't speak to that.

But ROF ramping is fairly common, and is PERMITTED on many fields, as well as under current XPL rules.  So it is a bit of a generalization to use terms like "scum bag" and "cheat mode" when describing this technology.  Both the Tippmann E-Grip and E-Bolt have a Turbo (ramping) mode, for instance.

Yes, but those modes cannot be accessed during play. Just because controls are available it does not mean honorable people will use them. I run an E-Bolt but have never accessed burst or turbo mode even when testing the marker in my backyard. I play speedball every weekend. This is recreational and we are having problems with bps and velocity ramping. When caught, a rarity, the excuse is, "Hey, the pros do it!"

Some fields are making ramping legal because they cannot figure out how to police it. IT WAS NOT LEGAL UNTIL FIELDS FOUND THE "SEMI-AUTO ONLY" UNENFORCEABLE DUE TO CHEAT BOARDS...WHICH WERE A CONCERTED EFFORT TO GET AROUND THE RULES. These ramping modes are cheating and the scum bags who use them are still scum bags. Such cheating will drive me out of the sport and my son will not be allow to play for fear of serious life changing injury. I will lobby other parents to remove their kids from play due to the possibility of serious injury.

The only workable solution I see is to limit the amount of paint each player is allowed to have on the field for each game. I suggest a full hopper and one pod with a maximum of 400 balls in possession...no paint sharing and no deadman pod pick ups.



Edited by Bruce A. Frank
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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2005 at 1:42am

Again, check your local rules.  Where I usually play, we have guys playing full auto, ramping - I have my RT Mag bouncing wildly at 20+ bps.  None of us are cheating.

And that has been the rule since the dawn of time - it's a very old field.  This is not a new change.  Where I play, nobody is trying to "get around the rules" - the rules allow whatever we want to bring, so long as we stay under 275.  That's the way it has always been.

Nobody has gotten hurt yet (from getting shot with a paintball).  I occasionally host a true semi only game, but that is not from fear of injury, but because I don't want to freak out the 20+ rookies playing with Prolites.

I would suggest to you that there are thousands of people playing at fields that never had a "semi-only" rule, or play in their back yard, where they make up their own rules.  The semi only rule exists in some places, and only recently.  Judging all rampers by your local rules is not fair.

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Bruce A. Frank View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2005 at 2:03am
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Again, check your local rules.  Where I usually play, we have guys playing full auto, ramping - I have my RT Mag bouncing wildly at 20+ bps.  None of us are cheating.

And that has been the rule since the dawn of time - it's a very old field.  This is not a new change.  Where I play, nobody is trying to "get around the rules" - the rules allow whatever we want to bring, so long as we stay under 275.  That's the way it has always been.

Nobody has gotten hurt yet (from getting shot with a paintball).  I occasionally host a true semi only game, but that is not from fear of injury, but because I don't want to freak out the 20+ rookies playing with Prolites.

I would suggest to you that there are thousands of people playing at fields that never had a "semi-only" rule, or play in their back yard, where they make up their own rules.  The semi only rule exists in some places, and only recently.  Judging all rampers by your local rules is not fair.

Goggles are rated for 300 fps by the ASTM standards. Due to the normal turtle pace of regulating bodies they are taking a while to come up with standards to regulate bps even though there are reports of goggles being pushed off faces and lens being popped out of frames at high bps rates of fire. Due to the abuse of velocity ramping coming into play combined with unlimited ROF several insurance companies are re-evaluating their policies for field coverage. There are rumors that the leagues may have problems with tournament insurance coverage if no method is devised to curtail ROF above 17 bps and velocity ramping modes. My point is that ramping modes fosters cheating of fields that do not allow full auto or velocities above 300 fps. It appears that if players can cheat where ramping is not allowed they will/they do. If ramping ROF because you can is acceptable then it is hardly a stretch to velocity ramping with the next step being OK to wipe.

People who cheat with ramping ROF and velocity where it is not legal are scum bags...is that clear enough??? Ramping velocity will become the next "legalized" mode because the player can get away with it. I may be wrong, but from what I read none of the pro tournaments started out allowing full auto.



Edited by Bruce A. Frank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote procarbinefreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2005 at 2:18am
velocity ramping has nothing to do with rof ramping... you can one, or both, but they aren't the same thing that always happen at the same time.  velocity ramping is rediculious and companies that make those boards should die.  i'm not exactly sure how it works... but i know it has something with the dwell.  the field i play at allows psp modes.... which is 15 bps rof limit on the ramping.  it's not cheating if it's allowed!   what is cheating are cheater boards in tournies... i mean there are so many cheater modes out there now... breakout modes, boards that can ramp and be changed to semi only with a push of a button.  but the sad part of it all is in the pro circuits and tourny scene... cheating is part of the game.  hell, at a 10-man tournament we played against a team with billy ceranski, who played or plays for the ironmen.  we had people come up to us after the game and tell us that we won that game if they didn't cheat.  but whatever... once you get into tournies you see this... you ignore hits and let the refs do their jobs.  i don't rub off hits intentionally.  if i do get hit on the run i usually slide on the side that's facing the field, but thats just my form.  but i won't wipe off an obvious hit on the bunker or anything else.  
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Bruce A. Frank View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2005 at 4:33am

Cheaters!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2005 at 4:40am
I follow the rules of my field. We say semi, but ramping is ok, since most guns don;t go insanely fast, such as ions. Cheating is defined as not following the rules.
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