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DBibeau855 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2005 at 2:26pm
Someone in my family. Owned 40 slaves. FOURTY! Yeah. On my moms side.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2005 at 2:28pm

During slavery, slaves were not allowed to read, and can be seen today as many African Americans still have lower test grades, and a more difficult ability to succeed. During the 1900's, African Americans could not vote, own much, have good jobs, or much of anythign else. This can also be seen today as African Americans are some of the poorest people in the country. Native Americans were forced onto land, slaughtered, and given very little. This is also seen still today as Native Americans live on small plots of land, their numbers dwindling down, their education poor, and the poverty level incredible. Some may own casinos, but the majority are still poor.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WGP guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2005 at 2:30pm
I'm not saying it was right, I'm saying that America probably wouldn't have survived as a nation if slavery was abolished when the Constitution was drafted.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2005 at 2:30pm
It could have survived, no one knows for sure. But it doesn't make it right no matter how strong the country is now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote youm0nt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2005 at 2:32pm
C&E?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Predatorr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2005 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

During slavery, slaves were not allowed to read, and can be seen today as many African Americans still have lower test grades, and a more difficult ability to succeed. During the 1900's, African Americans could not vote, own much, have good jobs, or much of anythign else. This can also be seen today as African Americans are some of the poorest people in the country. Native Americans were forced onto land, slaughtered, and given very little. This is also seen still today as Native Americans live on small plots of land, their numbers dwindling down, their education poor, and the poverty level incredible. Some may own casinos, but the majority are still poor.

education is relatively free (taxes) and everyone has the opportunity to go to school and if an african american person chooses to drop out of high school, get into drugs, gangs, or bad things that the stereotypes lay out, then why are the white people to blame?  I still dont see this.  I can see how some people would'nt be able to read because of what happend during the 50's and 60's but there is no excuse for not being able to read if you live during this generation or the previous one.  No excuse for making it bad in a job or dropping out of school.  But if its a bad neighborhood or bad school district, then theres another story.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2005 at 2:34pm
Oh... Please... African Americans not being able to read in the anti-bellum south has NOTHING to do with little Shunequa not being able to read with the rest of her class.

Native Americans were moved. Yes, lets all cry about it and move on. Move off the reservation and get a job and go to school. You dont see the Jewish comunity poverty sticken with alcoholism running rampent living in poverty do you?

These people are in a plight they brough upon themselves. Pay attention in school and get a job and you wont have these problems. I know plenty of blacks that are very well educated and one native american. None of them complain about the things you talk about.


Edited by DBibeau855
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2005 at 2:35pm

Honest analysis, but a bit too simple.

Originally posted by WGP guy WGP guy wrote:


"If slavery was abruptly stopped during the founding of the country, a few things would have happened. First, a severe amount of currency would have stopped circulating because much of what the money was used on (crops, clothing, ect.) would not be made anymore because the ones who produced them would not have to anymore. This would severely cripple the economy, causing inflation.

This point contradicts your third point.  The realistic result would be exactly what DID happen when slavery was abolished - the slaves went right back to work for their former slave masters, except for pay now.  There is no reason to believe that the end to slavery would or did cause harm to the Southern agricultural industry.  The world did not change so much from 1776 to 1865.  No reason to believe that the economic impact would be so much different.

In addition, you would have added millions of former slaves as self-interested members of society.  If you believe capitalist theory, free men are more productive than slaves, since they have more to gain.  Arguably, slavery was holding back the economy, not advancing it.

18th and 19th century America was in desparate need of more people.  And instead of allowing slaves to reap their full potential, we held them back by not providing self-interested motivation.

Your point number one is only correct if capitalism is completely false, since it completely contradicts teh very fundamentals of capitalism.  You are essentially arguing that a totalitarian regime is better for the economy than a free market capitalist system.  I think history has shown that this is false.

Quote Second, there would be an absence of some foods that were farmed by generally the slave population. This would have caused food supply to shorten in the short term until people could be paid to farm. The food shortage might have caused weakness or death for some of the working population and farmers which relied on their crops to survive which could also hurt the economy because of decreased production of goods causing further inflation.

Again, you are assuming that the former slaves would simply stop working.  When the slaves were freed in 1865 they did not stop working - why would you think that they would stop in 1776?

America in 1776 was a land filled with raw materials.  Lots of agriculture potential, lots of mining potential, lots of industry potential.  It is likely that some of the former slaves would not go back to work on the plantation, but then they would simply go farm someplace else - like Kansas or Nebraska.  There was plenty of land to be had.

Quote Third, there would be hundreds of thousands of freed slaves with nothing except their clothes across the country. This would cause a dramatic increase in demand for things that were now severely decreasing in quantity. This would cause people not being able to get things essential to survive causing death for many, possibly including the United States of America."

There were hundreds of thousands of immigrants coming in every year with nothing except their clothes.  They managed just fine.  In fact, they drove the growth of the country.  Why would freed slaves be any different?

Your entire 3-part argument is based on the premise that freed slaves would go from high productivity to low (or no) productivity.  I don't see why or how you can make that claim.  If anything, the opposite would be true.

 

Separately, of course, you have to consider the long-term effect of slavery.  The aftershocks of slavery remain one of the largest - and most expensive - problems facing this country today.  How much better would we not all be off economically without racial tension?  Slavery continues to hold us back to this day.



Edited by Clark Kent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2005 at 2:36pm

Yeah, a school that receives little funding, infested with crime and drugs. Good place to learn. The effects are still passed down today.

You're parents should teach you things other than "the white way is the right way." This country and it's people are too stubborn to admit when they did wrong. And claiming that it's easy to learn and get an education and succeed shows me that you have had it easy in your life and that you truly no nothing about struggle.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Predatorr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2005 at 2:37pm
your posts are so long clark...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2005 at 2:38pm
His posts are also intelligent and thourough. He even states that slavery still effects us today; however, some of you amazingly disbelieve that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2005 at 2:39pm
You know nothing about me. And yes Im white. But you don't have a clue what i have gone through in my life. So don't talk about what you don't know.

Oh I see. Its not their fault the school is infested with crime and drugs. They do it to themselves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2005 at 2:39pm

Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

His posts are also intelligent and thourough. He even states that slavery still effects us today; however, some of you amazingly disbelieve that.

But leik zomg it was teh sooo long ago i don own any slaves is not my faultys lolz111!!!1!


Hey, nice marmot!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2005 at 2:41pm

No, they don't do it themselves. Those kids don't have much of a choice where they go to school, and who lives in your neighborhood.

Come on, don't play that I had it rough card with me. You've claimed multiple times that your family has a lot of money. People who grow up poor understand how impossible it is to move. Whether you want to admit it or not, our country and it's people are still effected by the appalling things we did to them years ago.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hitman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2005 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by Predatorr Predatorr wrote:

your posts are so long clark...


But always worth the read.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2005 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

No, they don't do it themselves. Those kids don't have much of a choice where they go to school, and who lives in your neighborhood.

Come on, don't play that I had it rough card with me. You've claimed multiple times that your family has a lot of money. People who grow up poor understand how impossible it is to move. Whether you want to admit it or not, our country and it's people are still effected by the appalling things we did to them years ago.

Just give up Dune, Dbib lives in lala zany cartoon world where America can do no wrong.

If he knows he is wrong, he plays the apathetic card. Ala in the Police thread saying he didnt care, and now in this one saying he dosent care.


Hey, nice marmot!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2005 at 2:44pm
You're right. I'm finished. What we did was wrong, on a massive level. The effects are still throughout the country today, and although looking back is not always the thing to do, if we could at first admit our wrongs, maybe we could work toward narrowing the gap.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2005 at 2:44pm
Yeah the evil white man is just shoving the drugs. I actualy forced a native american teen to smoke crack yesterday. Its part of my sinister plan.

Yeah i have lots of money. People that live in my neiborhood? Hmm.. If you can afford an apartment that costs more than your whole block. You can have one. Im the youngest kid in my building thank you.

And you dont know what my life was like before i came into that money. It would shock you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WGP guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2005 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:


[QUOTE=WGP guy]



Never thought of it like that, maybe I'll have to change it considering what you brought up.


Edited by WGP guy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2005 at 2:45pm

Unless you won the lottery, you didn't rise out of the level of poverty that the majority of these people are in.

Whale's right, it's pure blindness and an unwillingness to admit faults.

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