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i wish my title was "different"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lester98c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2005 at 12:35am

almost 2 or about 2.20 here in PA i think

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TimF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2005 at 12:59am
Originally posted by paintballman_13 paintballman_13 wrote:



We have hydrogen combustion vehicles now and the hydrogen is cheap.



Maybe, but Biodiesel runs off of CORN. Which is much easier to get than Hydrogen, I would say. Less expensive, anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paintballman_13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2005 at 1:30am
Originally posted by TimF TimF wrote:


Originally posted by paintballman_13 paintballman_13 wrote:


We have hydrogen combustion vehicles now and the hydrogen is cheap.



Maybe, but Biodiesel runs off of CORN. Which is much easier to get than Hydrogen, I would say. Less expensive, anyway.


How is water harder to get then corn?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2005 at 1:49am
I hope you're not thinking that hydrogen cars run on water. Because they don't. They run on hydrogen. Water is the biproduct of the reaction, not the catalyst.

Getting hydrogen isn't as simple as one might think. True, it is in abundance in water, but extracting it requires a powerful electric current, machinery to capture and condense the hydrogen gas into liquid hydrogen (the only real effective way to store and utilize it) and the fueling stations and the hydrogen cars alike have to both find ways to keep it effectively (liquid hydrogen's resting temp is in the area of -250 degrees. Celsius. Brrrrr)

So yea, Corn is easier. Still, it seems hydrogen is making a lot of people excited, so it could be the wave of the future. To me, however, Using already established technology (the diesel engine) with a few modifications (a heated fuel tank) and an abundant source of fuel (corn oil) makes more sense to me. We should know in about a decade or so.



"The Highlander was a documentary, and the events happend in real time"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paintballman_13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2005 at 2:42am
Originally posted by TimF TimF wrote:

I hope you're not thinking that hydrogen cars run on water. Because
they don't. They run on hydrogen. Water is the biproduct of the
reaction, not the catalyst.

Getting hydrogen isn't as simple as one might think. True, it is in
abundance in water, but extracting it requires a powerful electric
current, machinery to capture and condense the hydrogen gas into liquid
hydrogen (the only real effective way to store and utilize it) and the
fueling stations and the hydrogen cars alike have to both find ways to
keep it effectively (liquid hydrogen's resting temp is in the area of
-250 degrees. Celsius. Brrrrr)

So yea, Corn is easier. Still, it seems hydrogen is making a lot of
people excited, so it could be the wave of the future. To me, however,
Using already established technology (the diesel engine) with a few
modifications (a heated fuel tank) and an abundant source of fuel (corn
oil) makes more sense to me. We should know in about a decade or so.






It is simple to extract hydrogen from water. Ive done it before with materials from my house. A large scale one could be easily and cheaply made. It does require electricity to extract it but that can come from clean methods like solar, wind or hydro. Capturing it is even simpler and you dont have to liquify it. You simply use hydrides to store the gas. The production of biodiesel requires methanol and lye (two chemicals which are expensive and are not available in large enough quantities).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skillet42565 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2005 at 9:10am
Gas in Belgium is up to like... 6 dollars US a gallon... my bud Jan told me about that when he came down.  Its like 2.34 here now I think.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2005 at 9:47am
Originally posted by blackdog144 blackdog144 wrote:

dude i wish hydrogen fule cells would come out really soon....but its going to be about another 10 years till they come out
I've got some bad news there buddy. Hydrogen fuel cells, the thing that every politicial gets a boner for these days will not make it big for a long time. They may be clean but untill we get an easy way to make hydrogen they are WAY more trouble than they are worth. The energy required to produce pure hydrogen to use in the fuel cells is far to great.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fat Stalin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2005 at 9:50am
Lexus is coming out with a new LS with a v12 hybrid I think. That will be sweet. Also their Rx 400h will be out soon. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2005 at 9:50am
Originally posted by paintballman_13 paintballman_13 wrote:

Originally posted by TimF TimF wrote:

I hope you're not thinking that hydrogen cars run on water. Because
they don't. They run on hydrogen. Water is the biproduct of the
reaction, not the catalyst.

Getting hydrogen isn't as simple as one might think. True, it is in
abundance in water, but extracting it requires a powerful electric
current, machinery to capture and condense the hydrogen gas into liquid
hydrogen (the only real effective way to store and utilize it) and the
fueling stations and the hydrogen cars alike have to both find ways to
keep it effectively (liquid hydrogen's resting temp is in the area of
-250 degrees. Celsius. Brrrrr)

So yea, Corn is easier. Still, it seems hydrogen is making a lot of
people excited, so it could be the wave of the future. To me, however,
Using already established technology (the diesel engine) with a few
modifications (a heated fuel tank) and an abundant source of fuel (corn
oil) makes more sense to me. We should know in about a decade or so.






It is simple to extract hydrogen from water. Ive done it before with materials from my house. A large scale one could be easily and cheaply made. It does require electricity to extract it but that can come from clean methods like solar, wind or hydro. Capturing it is even simpler and you dont have to liquify it. You simply use hydrides to store the gas. The production of biodiesel requires methanol and lye (two chemicals which are expensive and are not available in large enough quantities).

Cheaply be made? are you kidding me? How much energy was required for you to extract the tiniest bit of hydrogen from the water? ALOT. It's not worth it right now, it takes far more energy to produce the hydrogen than what the hydrogen will be used for. Also there is no effective way to store the hydrogen in a vechical because it will take up far too much space and weigh too much wich will kill efficiency.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hitman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2005 at 3:00pm
Gas was 1.07 a litre last I checked.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shocker sucks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2005 at 3:57pm
it's 27.19 here

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AragornZ15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2005 at 4:03pm
wow man, i heard in england its like 3.0lbs a gallon witch is close to 6.00$ u.s PER GALLON im glad im not living there right now.
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Darur View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2005 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by mbro mbro wrote:

Originally posted by paintballman_13 paintballman_13 wrote:

Originally posted by TimF TimF wrote:

I hope you're not thinking that hydrogen cars run on water. Because
they don't. They run on hydrogen. Water is the biproduct of the
reaction, not the catalyst.

Getting hydrogen isn't as simple as one might think. True, it is in
abundance in water, but extracting it requires a powerful electric
current, machinery to capture and condense the hydrogen gas into liquid
hydrogen (the only real effective way to store and utilize it) and the
fueling stations and the hydrogen cars alike have to both find ways to
keep it effectively (liquid hydrogen's resting temp is in the area of
-250 degrees. Celsius. Brrrrr)

So yea, Corn is easier. Still, it seems hydrogen is making a lot of
people excited, so it could be the wave of the future. To me, however,
Using already established technology (the diesel engine) with a few
modifications (a heated fuel tank) and an abundant source of fuel (corn
oil) makes more sense to me. We should know in about a decade or so.






It is simple to extract hydrogen from water. Ive done it before with materials from my house. A large scale one could be easily and cheaply made. It does require electricity to extract it but that can come from clean methods like solar, wind or hydro. Capturing it is even simpler and you dont have to liquify it. You simply use hydrides to store the gas. The production of biodiesel requires methanol and lye (two chemicals which are expensive and are not available in large enough quantities).

Cheaply be made? are you kidding me? How much energy was required for you to extract the tiniest bit of hydrogen from the water? ALOT. It's not worth it right now, it takes far more energy to produce the hydrogen than what the hydrogen will be used for. Also there is no effective way to store the hydrogen in a vechical because it will take up far too much space and weigh too much wich will kill efficiency.


On the contrary, for a science project a kid used an old half dead car battery to extract about 2-5 cublic feet of hydrogen from water.  The battery still had enough power to make more.

Its also the lightest elemant known to man, I dont think weight will be a huge issue. 
 

Edited by Darur
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IIIIIMMMMM BAAACCCKKK

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2005 at 4:14pm
Well we wouldnt be transporting it in vaporous form. We will be condensing it as well.
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Yes, spelled secual.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cdacda13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2005 at 4:19pm
2.40$ I think around here. (NJ)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AragornZ15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2005 at 4:22pm

Originally posted by cdacda13 cdacda13 wrote:

2.40$ I think around here. (NJ)

 

naw dude, 's $2.20 .. hey what part of Jersy u live in?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2005 at 4:36pm
Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

Well we wouldnt be transporting it in vaporous form. We will be condensing it as well.


Of course but the liquid would still be light.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frozen Balls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2005 at 4:44pm
2.55 for the cheapest stuff

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Yes, spelled secual.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cdacda13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2005 at 4:45pm
Originally posted by AragornZ15 AragornZ15 wrote:

Originally posted by cdacda13 cdacda13 wrote:

2.40$ I think around here. (NJ)

 

naw dude, 's $2.20 .. hey what part of Jersy u live in?


North


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AragornZ15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2005 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by cdacda13 cdacda13 wrote:

Originally posted by AragornZ15 AragornZ15 wrote:

Originally posted by cdacda13 cdacda13 wrote:

2.40$ I think around here. (NJ)

 

naw dude, 's $2.20 .. hey what part of Jersy u live in?


North


yeah same here, Union. you?

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