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Topic Closedlet’s try this again.....

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_TT_ View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2005 at 1:54pm
Spyders are better why

Uh yeah, that topic was really looking for intelligent responses. He's a troll.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2005 at 2:12pm
Dudes, I get your point, but you really sound like you haven't been reading the recent pages!

He knows he is wrong, and at least is now trying to ask legitimate questions.

Instead of people being mature, and helping now that he's asking for it, they just flame him.

basically, the time for flaming and owning is now over, and Druid is asking for some Tippmann advice.

Instead of maybe getting another Tippmann shooter hooked, you guys just bash him, when we're past that already.

Just address his points that you feel are incorrect in an intelligent way...you can own somebody without name-calling.

I honestly was shocked when I saw TT post that! Then I realized it wasn't even TT. I just think above all, a moderator is supposed to be more mature than stoop to that level.

If you feel this is jus a troll-fest, close-it! Don't get your parting shots in, just close the badness.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2005 at 2:46pm
I have read straight through it. I recognize flame bait when I see it. Sorry, I dont pull punches or placate the egos of people that are trying to get arguements started. Somewhere right now he's enjoying the disent and aggrevation he's sewn.
As far as my first statement. I'd like to see proof otherwise. I really would. Saying a gun cant shoot him out. That is a poor arguement. Attacking someones name, thats laughable. I think its very immature behaviour and it seems his sole purpose here has been to argue, nothing more, nothing less.
His last thread was locked because it was made simply to tweak people. Locking this instead of challenging his opinion would let him win. I simply request that I see these spyders that drastically out perform tippmanns.
As far as I know, very few fields use spyders for field guns. Most places around the world use tippmanns. Why, they are more reliable. More bang for the buck. They perform better with less maintaining. They are more easily upgradeable. As far as field stripping goes, tippmanns approach was much more clean then spyders. I am totally against cotterpins being put on a paintball gun. They are unsafe and a large number of spyders use them. Innovation wise I have not seen anything, sans the rocking trigger, new for a spyder. Might I point out, I said new for a spyder, meaning, they did not do it first.

Re-milling a gun and adding on poor quality accessories is not doing anything at all. In the last year have they done anything original, The last two, 5? I dont consider adding a drop and a low quality expansion chamber or regulator original.Unusable sight rails, bottom of the line expansion chambers, cheap and unsafe bolt retention systems, trigger modifications that someone else innovated.

Happy zesty. I have posted all the reasons why spyders are not better. Oh, you want tippmanns strong points.
Safer bolt retention, easier field stripping, new C02 valve system that allows all players to fill thier own tanks, there by making them a better choice for field rental and a upping the level of safety on a field. A new feed system that comes stock on thier guns as well as being able to be added to older guns such as the 98. Dependability, reliabilty, better customer support, better warranty, better scenario field presence, more to offer a casual player, easier maint. on guns allowing younger less experienced players the ability to learn how to take care of thier guns. Less chance of the gun breaking or injuring a player, making it a more welcoming experience to newer players. More after release attention to specific markers instead of pumping out a new color the next month instead of dealing with issues on the previous gun.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2005 at 3:30pm
Originally posted by NotDaveEllis NotDaveEllis wrote:

My proto is better than a spyder

I win.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2005 at 1:01am
zesty man TT is right wats ur problem and because of u now he is elaving the tippmann forum u think your cool now?
(In Game) ok guys watch out one at 21 dorito and back middle one, one just made a move for the snake shoot em are you their shoot him at the snake.....(big pause looks back) omg are you jokin 3v1
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2005 at 1:02am
Originally posted by marktippman98 marktippman98 wrote:

zesty man TT is right wats ur problem and because of u now he is elaving the tippmann forum u think your cool now?


You bumped this just to spit out that pathetic excuse for english?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2005 at 2:00am
the 98custom to me is just more comfortable, compact, and just as fast as any mech sypder....and if you have a quick finger ro you do any basic mods to you guns it can shoot as fast as an electro spyder (or at least the ones I have shot.)

and thank you zesty you hit it right on the head.

Edited by benttwig33
Sig is WAY too big.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2005 at 4:24am

Originally posted by Zesty Zesty wrote:

Originally posted by _TT_ _TT_ wrote:

I havent put all too much into my gun. I just know it performs very well. His arguements seem to be sub par,well, when using a sub-par product, what would one expect? including telling forumers to learn to read when you goaT someone into telling you to be quiet or respond in an antagonistic manner, yes.. Its trolling, plain and simple. Not when Im asking questions At 35 he should have better to do then to try to goad people into argueing. Mispelling pates name as an attempt to be whitty Or an accident...didn't know it was a felony to spell a name wrong, that just failed right there. Need convincing which gun to use, go try it.If you are able, slow down and don't 'scan' the posts. I said in the very beginning that spyders were better because ____. Now I am finding out I am possibly wrong about Tippmans. Dont like it, then dont buy it, just go play with your spyder. I'm sure he is not going to be convinced otherwise don't be so sure..I have learned alot from the last few days and most from Zesty, quite obvious by the way he's been posting, so yeah, he came here looking to start an arguement. Perhaps my attitude stunk at first, however I am always up to being corrected with intelligent information...not the "go away troll"..."yer a newb" attitude that I've seen here. If he wasnt he wouldnt be attacking every post that was made to the contrary of his opinions. any intelligent post was met with respect. Anyone that was able to provide more information than a passing comment of say..."kingman funboy" was responded to with more questions about the markers and welcomed some resolve to issue's I have with the markers that I used.

He's a troll, thats all there is to it.


I disagree. Thank you

If you read the entire thread, it seems to me that Druid is on the defensive(rightfully). He brings up a touchy subject, but that's no problem for me becausae I like opposing viewpoints and getting to the bottom of them during debates....that's what we are trying to have.

I've never seen a troll with this much interest in setting up a Tippmann! He's straight up asking us what he should do, and you guys don't respond, because all YOU want to do is argue!

I could see if you guys were actually responding to everything he said, but you aren't answering his questions, and only reply to flame him...childishly. Thank you.

I don't know, I guess I just figured even if this was a troll-fest, a moderator would just end it, instead of being a part of it.

But personally, I disagree with you that Druid is a simple troll....he just had a biased experience with a bad Tippmann, so he's coming here to see if there's anything to make his experience better. Well, it was 2 tippmans...my 98 that I used for about 3 weeks and sold (a few years ago) because it wasn't performing as I thought it should and then recently, a buddies for a day. The one I used for a day just happened to bring back some ruddy memories of the first marker which pointed me in the anti-Tippman direction.
I don't see how he is a troll when he actually has the balls to reply to everyone. He shows respect to those that show it to him. I can't blame him. Thank you

Zesty, he has 45 posts, all in this one thread, and he is certainly not being defensive. He MADE the thread. Very true He is insulting people that insult him first, and he keeps bumping this thread after people let it die. Not true. I have asked questions and received answers from those like Zesty...and I DO appreciate them. You just have a bad habit of always standing up for the little guy who's getting proven wrong time and again. Admirbale of you, but in this case, he deserves it. Well, I can't speak for this as I do not know of it...

edit:here are the three(3) threads he has posted in.

Perhaps I could have started the whole thing better. If my choice of words (or more to the point, attitude) weren't driven by anger and disgust at faulty equipment...perhaps this wouldn't have gotten out of hand. My apologies to those that have helped me...for having to endure the ramblings of a madman. I will NOT apologize for firing back at people who have no intention of being helpful or who'll think I'll sit here and take their juvenile bantor. There's nothing I hate more than having to sit here and read the same crap that I hear from the inmate's mouths...just younger versions of the same punk-wannabe articulation.


 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2005 at 4:48am
Originally posted by druidsdecendant druidsdecendant wrote:

actually yes I am 35.

And my home field specializes in 98's as rentals. this is it...

www.skirmish.com

specializes in 98 rentals? what feild DOESN'T specialize in 98 rentals???? have you ever been to any other feild outside your area?

i don't understand what your trying to prove. reading PlentifilBallz first post on page one, he prety much proves everything you have to say as either wrong, that a tippy is equal to a spyder in that area, or that one of your points is just plain stupid that is totally based around personal preference (stocks).

anyone who actually shoots guns before getting into paintball will probobly like a stock. feels more natural and comfortable.

and as for scopes. i have a cheap rifle scope on my marker. with a %70 full tank or better, i can hit the target with my flatline at 100 feet quite easily. so i dont see what anyone has against scopes. if a scope will get me 1 extra hit dureing a day of play, i'll take it. they help when you play in dark woods and need to see where exactly your hitting.

so... what is your point in all of this? if you open your eyes, you'll see tippys arent bad guns. spyders arent bad guns either. stock spyders and tippmanns are pretty much right on the same level anyway so... why?



Edited by tippmann89c
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2005 at 5:01am
Originally posted by _TT_ _TT_ wrote:

I have read straight through it. I recognize flame bait when I see it. Sorry, I dont pull punches or placate the egos of people that are trying to get arguements started. Somewhere right now he's enjoying the disent and aggrevation he's sewn.
As far as my first statement. I'd like to see proof otherwise. I really would. Saying a gun cant shoot him out. That is a poor arguement. Attacking someones name, thats laughable. I think its very immature behaviour and it seems his sole purpose here has been to argue, nothing more, nothing less.
His last thread was locked because it was made simply to tweak people. Locking this instead of challenging his opinion would let him win. I simply request that I see these spyders that drastically out perform tippmanns. The last thread was locked because some chucklehead decided to put porn in it (well, I would HOPE that was the reason.)
As far as I know, very few fields use spyders for field guns. Most places around the world use tippmanns. very true Why, they are more reliable. More bang for the buck. My impression was because of cost-effectiveness...perhaps getting more markers for a cheaper price that Kingman would offer They perform better with less maintaining. They are more easily upgradeable. As far as field stripping goes, tippmanns approach was much more clean then spyders. I am totally against cotterpins being put on a paintball gun. They are unsafe and a large number of spyders use them. Innovation wise I have not seen anything, sans the rocking trigger, new for a spyder. Ok. you make a valid point on 99% of that...however...I am NOT a fan of the rocking trigger. In fact, I've tested one and hated it. Might I point out, I said new for a spyder, meaning, they did not do it first.

Re-milling a gun and adding on poor quality accessories is not doing anything at all. In the last year have they done anything original, The last two, 5? Save for body style change? no...and I agree, adding a gas-through or X-Chamber means very little. However it IS, at least, an attempt. When I speak of "add-ons, I refer to aftermarket products that are NOT made by Kingman...such as upgraded VA's, LP valves and internals, ect. I dont consider adding a drop and a low quality expansion chamber or regulator original.Unusable sight rails,Point...not too much of a fan of them...although I did use it with an offset mount... bottom of the line expansion chambers Truly are garbage, cheap and unsafe bolt retention systems I have heard stories of problems but never in my days have I WITNESSED such a problem, trigger modifications that someone else innovated. That's kind of...well...a less than intelligent comment....someone has to invent it (whatever it is) and someone will copy it or modify it for their purposes. Then they spread the word. This is the normal progression of modifications and innovations...there is always room for improvement somewhere.

Happy zesty. I have posted all the reasons why spyders are not better. Oh, you want tippmanns strong points.
Safer bolt retention, Okay easier field stripping, Perhaps on an A5 but not the 98 new C02 valve system that allows all players to fill thier own tanks, there by making them a better choice for field rental and a upping the level of safety on a field unaware of this. A new feed system that comes stock on thier guns as well as being able to be added to older guns such as the 98. A plus in my book Dependability, reliabilty, better customer support unaware, as i have never used it, better warranty, better scenario field presence I challenge this to add..."a more military look" to accomodate the scenario and the mentality while engaged in it, more to offer a casual player,such as? easier maint. on guns allowing younger less experienced players the ability to learn how to take care of thier guns. I beg to differ...at least, with the Tipps I used...albeit mine was an older marker Less chance of the gun breaking or injuring a player,As I've said...I've never winessed these problems you speak of (that doesn't mean they didn't happen) making it a more welcoming experience to newer players. More after release attention to specific markers instead of pumping out a new color the next month instead of dealing with issues on the previous gun. Point made about colors and limited body stylings. However, at least Kingman is trying to make changes of the look of their markers. One might think different milling of anno is a "waste"...aesthetics grabs the consumer's eye of those who want "flash." The Tippman came in black. and black. and then black. They did pop out silver eventually. There's nothing wrong with black...it tends to appeal to those who like "stealth mode" in the woods.  However, most Kingman problems are tracked back to a poor quality or mis-shapen cupseal or dried O-rings...from sitting in storage, on store shelves under high wattage lighting or hell...damages caused in shipping from out of the US...not major problems in manufacturing large parts or systems as suggested or even thought. Do Spyders need innovations? Well, to be honest yes. The problem then becomes that it get to be too costly to sell the marker--especially when trying to appeal to a "low purchase price" market. Milling and anno are not cheap processes...especially in the US. And think about this...of the "low purchase price" market...who are the leaders? Kingman and Tippman. Not BE and NOT clones like Diablo, et al.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2005 at 5:21am
Originally posted by tippmann89c tippmann89c wrote:

Originally posted by druidsdecendant druidsdecendant wrote:

actually yes I am 35.

And my home field specializes in 98's as rentals. this is it...

www.skirmish.com

specializes in 98 rentals? what feild DOESN'T specialize in 98 rentals???? have you ever been to any other feild outside your area? Sadly, no. The 2 fields I use, only use Tippmans...and after my experience with the one I owned, I tried Spyders and have been met with great success.

i don't understand what your trying to prove. reading PlentifilBallz first post on page one, he prety much proves everything you have to say as either wrong, that a tippy is equal to a spyder in that area, or that one of your points is just plain stupid that is totally based around personal preference (stocks). I believe I have made my point that perhaps I was hasty in my judgements...but this was based on two different markers made at two different times, years apart.

anyone who actually shoots guns before getting into paintball will probobly like a stock. feels more natural and comfortable. I do understand what you are saying but you cannot compare firearms to paintball. Stocks are for 1) keeping the aim steady  2) absorb recoil 

and as for scopes. i have a cheap rifle scope on my marker. with a %70 full tank or better, i can hit the target with my flatline at 100 feet quite easily. so i dont see what anyone has against scopes. if a scope will get me 1 extra hit dureing a day of play, i'll take it. they help when you play in dark woods and need to see where exactly your hitting. I can understand this but a stock interferes with my style of play...even in the woods and during scenario games...not to mention...interfered with my mask.

so... what is your point in all of this? if you open your eyes, you'll see tippys arent bad guns. spyders arent bad guns either. stock spyders and tippmanns are pretty much right on the same level anyway so... why? I'm trying to and so far, I'm pretty much convinced that I got a lemon (the one I owned). The second one I played with wasn't much better (accuracy and curve balls....either a barrel or paint problem). Out of the box, my Spyders have never let me down...save for a pinched O-ring on one. Now...I did mod the crap out of them to make them better...which is why I originally said about "more aftermarket" products than what can be forund for a tippman. My initial inclination was they can't be improved (because they're junk) but Zesty has pointed out the really don't need so many things (because they don't NEED improving). I just have to find a properly working marker to show me that...that's all.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2005 at 5:49am

Originally posted by _TT_ _TT_ wrote:

K here we go. I'll make a nice little deal with you. You go to skirmish, great, that means you are not far from EMR.EMR? Please elaborate Lets plan this in advance, so how about you come to the next castle conquest and I'll show you my tippmann. I'll show you how good and how fast a tippmann can shoot and we can have a little BPS contest to see which gun can get the highest without chopping. I promise, I wont even tell the forumers about it when you lose. I don't think that would be fair since I overhaulled all my Spyders...and I don't just mean grips...I mean TBoard, eyes, LP, faster frame (older Boo-yaah frame), etc...

I would welcome the opportunity to play a few matchup games with you though. Seriously. I'll be up at skirmish Sat aug 6th with about 20 other guys...perhaps I'll see you there? If you do end up there, look for a red plymouth voyager with a front license plate that is black with a blue horizontal stripe in the center (means law-enforcement). That will be my van. I'm taking my Ion for a stroll that day and will have my esprit as a back-up.

I'll leave that up to "nape"

I'm not talking smack either, plenty have seen my gun and been on the buisness end of it, or danced on the trigger themselves.

I don't question your sincerity at all. The guy that owns the ar15 look-alike (the marker I shot) is wicked with his...for some (unknown) reason, it was giving me crap all day long and left another bad taste in my mouth about Tipps.

Originally posted by druidsdecendant druidsdecendant wrote:

actually yes I am 35.

And my home field specializes in 98's as rentals. this is it...

www.skirmish.com


Now...Impulse is right that both stink as stock markers.


TheGuy posted this: Go buy Natural Newbie's 98. Its been modded with a double action ram, and an Intimidator board set-up. So its not a Tippmann that shoots just as fast a Timmy, which would be faster than a spyder without a similar set-up.


what is this and where can I see pics/specs of this marker?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2005 at 9:12am
This thread made_TT_ quit.  Somebody needs to burn it...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2005 at 5:30am

Originally posted by Predatorr Predatorr wrote:

This thread made_TT_ quit.  Somebody needs to burn it...

Thank you to all that have helped me.

***POST DELETED BY DRUIDSDECENDANT***



Edited by druidsdecendant
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2005 at 5:39am

Why the hell is this still here...and why the hell is one of our mods arguing with people?

Honestly, old thread thats been bumped=sucks.

Delete it...I beg of you.  I'll give you a cookie, a sandwich, a, a...well...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2005 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by druidsdecendant druidsdecendant wrote:


Well-if he quit because of me, then:

He isn't much of a moderator...or
He isn't much of an adult...or
isn't much help...or
wasn't worthy of modship to begin with...or
wasn't a worthy debate opponant...or
all of, or any combination of, the above.

A Moderator's duties are to moderate the thread/post...not (necessarily) be an active participant to flaming or badgering. Since he did engage in the rhettorical "newb troll" bantor, I don't feel sorry (if it's true) that he quit. The mods are supposed to keep a conversation civil...not throw gas on the fire. They are supposed to keep the site clean because forums like these are 'family oriented.'


_TT_ didnt quit because of you.... Who are you to judge his performance, his maturity, or his helpfulness? It is one thing to hold a civil debate online but it is quite rude to attack his character and performance, especially when you know absolutely nothing about them.

Obviously, you do not own the website or the forums, therefore you dont get to dictate what a Moderator's duties are and what they can and cant do.

Good job on assuming your the center of the universe and that the world revolves around you.

Edited by _TT_
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2005 at 12:49pm
Yea, as everyone knows. The world revolves around me.

This sig is brought to you by Psyrecx, thanks to D-Town Balla.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2005 at 1:03pm
Originally posted by rockerdoode rockerdoode wrote:

...and why the hell is one of our mods arguing with people?

I don't know where people get the idea that Mods can't argue.

Mods aren't po-po (except some of us) set apart from the forum - we are just forum citizens with extra buttons. 

Mods can certainly participate in any discussion on the forum, and we often do - even when those discussions get heated.

I also second TT's last post.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2005 at 4:49pm

Originally posted by Predatorr Predatorr wrote:

This thread made_TT_ quit.  Somebody needs to burn it...

I don't need to defend my response to what someone else said. If taken at face-value and presuming it to be true, well....whatever...

And I didn't say mods couldn't participate...I said they shouldn't throw gas on the fire. Being a moderator, one accepts a little more responsibility for their behavior and actions on the forum. They are supposed to be "the moral majority" when it comes to censoring the posts and that's why they are give the "extra buttons."

Here's the definition...1 & 2 apply:

Main Entry: mod·er·a·tor
Pronunciation: 'mä-d&-"rA-t&r
Function: noun
1 : one who arbitrates : MEDIATOR
2 : one who presides over an assembly, meeting, or discussion: as a : the presiding officer of a Presbyterian governing body b : the nonpartisan presiding officer of a town meeting c : the chairman of a discussion group
3 : a substance (as graphite) used for slowing down neutrons in a nuclear reactor

note it said nonpartisan. Meaning...

Main Entry: non·par·ti·san
Pronunciation: 'nän-'pär-t&-z&n, -s&n
Function: adjective
: not partisan; especially : free from party affiliation, bias, or designation <nonpartisan ballot> <a nonpartisan board>
- non·par·ti·san·ship /-"ship/ noun

 

I'm not saying he/she can't have an opinion. I'm saying a moderator should be more professional, since he/she represents the owners of the thing they moderate--in this case, a discussion/discussion group or board. That means..no flames, no fuel to the fire, no belittling a differing opinion...and certainly no tantrums, editing/deleting posts out of spite for an individual without just-cause or any other behavior damaging or demeaning towards the owners and their reputation. What an individual 'thinks' his behavior is, may not necessarily be opinion the owners hold...and just because an owner may not respond immediately (or even at all), doesn't mean they give their approval to continue.

Now...I will delete the post I made to discontinue the berratement from TT's fan club.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2005 at 4:53pm
Shutup and leave.

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