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Bush still doesn’t know....

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goodsmitty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goodsmitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Bush still doesn’t know....
    Posted: 29 June 2005 at 8:19am

who attacked us on 9/11. Actually, he does, but he still invokes multiple references to the September 11th attacks when talking about this goatscrew in Iraq to try to justify it. Pathetic.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050629/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush;_ylt =AvDWbhzUOKvMWyZeZ2agaA.s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0b Q--

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Linus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 9:25am
Well, there is no proof that they DID help, but also none that they DIDN'T.

They did harbor terrorist, which is one reason why we went in...

Anyway.. I could care less, we are in now and we won't leave just becasue he is criticised

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Murdock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 9:40am

Who cares man. The soldiers are happy because they get to do what they have trained long and hard for. They know they can die at any moment, and have accepted it. The ones the media keeps talking to are the pansys who tried to get a free ride through college in the military and don't want to be there. The media is the equivalent of the Nazi propaganda machine, they tell you what they want you to believe man....make up your own mind.

I quit watching TV alltogether because of all that crap. The media takes the facts and twists them to get ratings.

Also, we just did what we should have done during Desert Storm. Thats what happens when politics gets in the way of war.

Take this to heart whenever you think about stuff like this.

"Those who have long enjoyed such privileges as we enjoy forget in time that men have died to win them." -FDR-

We fight conflicts abroad so the turmoil has no chance of finding its way to our shores as this did.

By the way, I'm proably going to Iraq within the next year or so. I hope so anyhow.



Edited by Murdock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heres To You Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 11:17am
Originally posted by Murdock Murdock wrote:

Who cares man. The soldiers are happy because they get to do what they have trained long and hard for. They know they can die at any moment, and have accepted it. The ones the media keeps talking to are the pansys who tried to get a free ride through college in the military and don't want to be there. The media is the equivalent of the Nazi propaganda machine, they tell you what they want you to believe man....make up your own mind.

I quit watching TV alltogether because of all that crap. The media takes the facts and twists them to get ratings.

Also, we just did what we should have done during Desert Storm. Thats what happens when politics gets in the way of war.

Take this to heart whenever you think about stuff like this.

"Those who have long enjoyed such privileges as we enjoy forget in time that men have died to win them." -FDR-

We fight conflicts abroad so the turmoil has no chance of finding its way to our shores as this did.

By the way, I'm proably going to Iraq within the next year or so. I hope so anyhow.



Here comes the 12 page debate.

I agree with you, but I just wouldn't debate, nobody's mind gets changed and strikes just get handed out.

I wish there was a whole forum like T&O devoted to politics, that way those of us who are sick of this could avoid them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panda Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 11:20am
Me personally, I liked his Speech, and I'm one of the most Democratic-liberals you'll meet.   Don't think there is a Democratic-Conservative, so untill the next election comes around, I'll hide with favoring with the green party. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 11:21am

A whole forum dedicated to politics?

What a wonderful plan. Nothing but page after page of people arguing from one side of any particular issue rather than look at the whole picture?

With noone changing anyones mind, with thousands of links supporting, debating and refuting each others arguments?

The name calling, the insulting, the never ending frustration of it all?

If ever that was instituted here, I'd quit. Theres already too much of it here in T/O if you ask me. Not that discussion of politics isnt a good thing, its just that too many people aren't equipped to do it.

 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panda Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 11:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heres To You Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 11:37am
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

A whole forum dedicated to politics?

What a wonderful plan. Nothing but page after page of people arguing from one side of any particular issue rather than look at the whole picture?

With noone changing anyones mind, with thousands of links supporting, debating and refuting each others arguments?

The name calling, the insulting, the never ending frustration of it all?

If ever that was instituted here, I'd quit. Theres already too much of it here in T/O if you ask me. Not that discussion of politics isnt a good thing, its just that too many people aren't equipped to do it.

 



Thats the point, those of us who are sick of seeing it in T&O wouldn't have to deal with it.  I't isn't a problem, just an annoyance when you see 2 or 3 twelve page debates on the front page.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nickodemus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 11:54am

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Well, there is no proof that they DID help, but also none that they DIDN'T.

They did harbor terrorist, which is one reason why we went in...

Anyway.. I could care less, we are in now and we won't leave just becasue he is criticised

I was unaware of that... Saddam harbored terrorist in Iraq? Funny to here you guys talk about the media, and misinformation. I was sure he was the ony regime of terror in Iraq. Saddam ran a secular regime. That means they had no religion. To Alcaida, Taliban, and other religious extremest, Saddam was even as us "infedel" Americans. Saddam would never surrender any WMD to a terrorist group that would then possibly use them against him. Everyone who knows Saddam says he is the ultimate control freak. He did have some terrorist way up near the boarder in the north, that region was very rural and out of his control. Saddam could not even exert conventional military might on his neighboors after we disarmed him in the first gulf war. He is evil and it is good that he is out of power, but there are far worse and threatening leaders in the world. The "insurgensts" we fight now flooded in after the invasion from across the boarders so that they may fight, harrass and demoralize a standing American army.

The IDF intelligence said that the 9-11 guys where Egyptians.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:13pm
Now tell me... if his rgeime was secular, howcome he was a Sunni?

It wasn't secular nick, that was ignorant of you to say.

It was a Sunni run government, thats why people were mad. The majority of the population was Shi'ite (Shi ite if it blocks it)


Originally posted by Nick Nick wrote:

I was unaware of that... Saddam harbored terrorist in Iraq?



Hmmm

Originally posted by Nick Nick wrote:

He did have some terrorist way up near the boarder in the north


Thanks for proving me right.


No, the "IDF" guys, as you say, are wrong.

11 of the hijackers were Saudi citizens.

Edited by Linus

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nEmRoĐ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:18pm
Give him an AK47 have him fight in his wars and impress daddy that way.

flame me if u want but i belive there could of been bttr plannin b4 goin in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:19pm
Saddam faked what religion he had. Remember he converted after he came into office. He was nothing but a street thug who shot and murdered his way into office. So his religion was simply a shoe horn into politics, and a sad attempt, like all religious extremists, to put a religious edge on his evil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by nEmRoĐ nEmRoĐ wrote:

Give him an AK47 have him fight in his wars and impress daddy that way.
Why give Bush an Ak47 when we use M16's and M16 > Ak's

No flamage will take place, but you are ignorant of that remark "Let him fight his own wars"

How could it have been better planed? We kicked ass going in, they were down for the count in a matter of weeks, fastest military op in history.


Strato, that doesn't change the fact that it WS a Sunni run government and he WAS a Sunni.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:25pm

Linus, what I'm trying to say is that Saddam didn't really have a religious regime. He had a Saddam regime. I agree with you as far as the way the war was fought, we did it right.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:34pm
But, don't deny that HE was a Sunni and his governemnt was Sunni run.. why do you think Shi'its were pissed so much at him? Why do you think the Shi'its faught for Saddam, if he fell, they would be out of power and the minority again.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:37pm

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Originally posted by nEmRoĐ nEmRoĐ wrote:

Give him an AK47 have him fight in his wars and impress daddy that way.
Why give Bush an Ak47 when we use M16's and M16 > Ak's

No flamage will take place, but you are ignorant of that remark "Let him fight his own wars"

How could it have been better planed? We kicked ass going in, they were down for the count in a matter of weeks, fastest military op in history.


Strato, that doesn't change the fact that it WS a Sunni run government and he WAS a Sunni.

Yeah, pretty easy of us to fight a group of people that didn't want to fight nor were they properly trained in the first place. We still haven't won the war, and I would place it on the shoulders of the insurgents much like the VC in Vietnam. We may have kicked butt in the beginning, but things started to thin out and many of the original Iraqi troops had no ambition to fight us. I guess when the excuses for going in run all out then maybe our country will finally face the truth of why we went in.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:39pm
This was a legit war.

They had in the past attacked Kuwait.

They were in missle range of Israel

He had WMDs before (DOn't know where they are now, But i believe that he still had them)

When we were staging in Kuwait, he launche missles at us, which was an act of war, so in all technicality, he attacked first



So, dune, you'd rather have us fight an army that stands a chance? This is war, war is not fair. I am content with kicking the ass of people that can't fight back becasue if they try and fight back, it's futile.

Edited by Linus

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panda Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:43pm
I would rather fight them on the other side of the world then fight them at our doorstep.

Those "radicals" have proved that they can bring the fight to our home front, so why not just fight them there? Its much easier for us, and we will have much lower casualties.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:44pm

Who care if they attacked Kuwait? Who cares if they were in missle range of Israel? You sure don't see them fretting too much over it anymore. In fact, claiming we went in because they were attacking our allies is false because they had not attacked any allies since the early 1990's. How is this legit? I mean, eventually you can make up excuses, much like Bush has done, but the intelligent people remember the crap that was spoon fed to us since Korea about the necessity of war.

So we should only attack those that we will beat? I mean, plenty more countries have tyrannical government ten fold worse then Iraq (which still makes no sense why we chose there). If we were truly going after tyranny, we would have been in North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and the Sudan by now. However....we're not.

I am stunned you quoted the president there. It's a scare tactic. We are more likely to be injured or killed by our own countrymen then by another group of individuals that want to blow stuff up. Attacking an entire country in order to "prevent" attacks in our country by people not even associated with the country but with extremism is ludicrous.



Edited by Dune
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nickodemus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:45pm

Whatever feigned religion Saddam had, he didn't give power to them. I pose the real question. Is 9-11 revenge why we went after Saddam? Show me the tie to 9-11 and Saddam. If not 9-11 revenge then he must have been the most threatening leader in the world for us to act so premeptively. Did you believe Saddam was that threatening and why? Media? What purpose do you believe we went into Iraq for?

Bush speaks now for the importance of energy. I think he is laying the groudwork to raise the real issue. Is oil worth killing for, if it's in evil hands of terrorist? Not a good question around election time. Is it a coincidence that we invaded a coutry richest in our addiction, and the same old related companies are profeiting?



Edited by Nickodemus
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