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Bush still doesn’t know....

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Panda Man View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panda Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:51pm
Nick:  but if you look what happend after we liberated Iraq more, and more countries are becoming more democratic, Saudi Arabia may hold free elections, same with Eygpt, and Lebanon's leader stoped trying to produce a Nuclear Weapons Program... 

Also More and more countries are starting to send Aid, and helping Train Iraq's new Military. Hell NATO even got involved help training soilders.
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Dune View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:53pm
Egypts elections are in no way free, but they are still elections. It's just amazing how easy it is to ignore things like the Downing Street Memo and other factors and be so hard-headed as to not admit when we made a mistake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hella Cool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by Panda Man Panda Man wrote:

Nick:  but if you look what happend after we liberated Iraq more, and more countries are becoming more democratic, Saudi Arabia may hold free elections, same with Eygpt, and Lebanon's leader stoped trying to produce a Nuclear Weapons Program... 

Also More and more countries are starting to send Aid, and helping Train Iraq's new Military. Hell NATO even got involved help training soilders.

I think you are thinking of Libya. Kind of a good point that we will have more influence on what other countries in that region do, but I don't see Saudi Arabia or Egypt getting more democratic anytime soon. Maybe we need to invade just one more Islamic country to show them we're serious.
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Dune View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:59pm
Who are we to spread democracy across another continent because WE think it's the best policy?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nickodemus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 12:59pm

The vote in Iraq was a flop with petty turnout. America has a rich history of creating self serving govt's.

Democracy is a wonderful thing (even for us in a republic) but for people who are used to living under a dictator it will take time. It doesn't happen overnight.

I hope things do get better around the globe, because we are weaker with this war going on. This war that is mostly in the backround of our media.

North Korea is dangerous, China could be if they wanted to.

Democracy is not usually created by empiricsm or whatever you want to call what we are doing. Democracy is won by organized locals shucking off the oppresive gvt over them. What side are we on in that senario, if we don't leave after we did our job, destroying the current system? I don't expect it to work in our liftime - and be democratic freedom as we know it. For us to leave, the resources are too valuable to let them possibly waste in the hands of a corrupt gvt in Iraq. Or else we would be out already and just sending aid like everyone else. There will be no people who cover there women's skin, watching Britney Spears videos, I assure you.

 


Edited by Nickodemus
Think and give them all you have from the beginning, and never weaken!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hella Cool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Well, there is no proof that they DID help, but also none that they DIDN'T.

They did harbor terrorist, which is one reason why we went in...

Anyway.. I could care less, we are in now and we won't leave just becasue he is criticised

By your bolded logic, we can assume that Canada was behind 9/11 also because while we don't have evidence that they were, we don't have evidence that they weren't, therefore we should invade them. The 9/11 commission said that there was no link between Saddam and Al-Qaeda, that there never was, and that bin Laden was very anti-Saddam because as mentioned before, Saddam wasn't a religious leader.  Saddam helped some people we would consider terrorists, but not the ones that threatened us, aka Al-Qaeda.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 1:16pm
Plus Saddam turned Al-Qaeda and Osama away from hiding in Iraq after the first attack on the Trade Centers.

Hey, nice marmot!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bango Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 1:44pm

Originally posted by agentwhale007. agentwhale007. wrote:

Plus Saddam turned Al-Qaeda and Osama away from hiding in Iraq after the first attack on the Trade Centers.

One of the bombers during the first WTC attack actually did take refuge in Iraq. His name was Abdul Rahman Yasin. Apparently, we found some documents in Saddam's hometown of Tikrit that showed he gave Yasin a place to stay and even a monthly salary.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 1:47pm
Double post

Edited by Linus

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

Who care if they attacked Kuwait? Who cares if they were in missle range of Israel? You sure don't see them fretting too much over it anymore.

Hmm.. could it be becasue we took out the threat? I think it may!

Originally posted by Nickodemus Nickodemus wrote:

The vote in Iraq was a flop with petty turnout.

This is why you gotta quoit watching "FAke news weekly"

The turnout was greater then expected, the Kurds won. How is that a flop?

Edited by Linus

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Dune View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 2:02pm
They didn't fret much during the 90's. The only ones making a big deal out of Iraq was the U.S. We had no right to go in, have no right to be there, and absolutely have no right to set up THEIR government.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 2:08pm
We do have a right to go in, we are protecting our allies.
We have a right to be there.. we started it we will end it.
We didn't force them to sign their own consitiution did we? They are setting up their own governemnt with out help, much like when we were a fledging country and France helped.

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Dune View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 2:12pm
We asked for France's help, because we would have certainly lost if not for them. We aren't protecting anybody by going in there. Sure he makes up excuses about "helping" out countries, but we didn't have a single viable reason to be there. It's a waste of human life on both sides. It's all too similiar of Vietnam, and of the family I lost in wars like that. They haven't even created their own constitution yet, because we are the ones coordinating the drafting of it. They will put it up to sign later in the year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 2:15pm

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

We do have a right to go in, we are protecting our allies.

So if we declare somebody an "ally" we have a "right" to invade other people?

Quote We have a right to be there.. we started it we will end it.

Interesting logic.

Quote We didn't force them to sign their own consitiution did we?

The constitution isn't signed yet, I believe, but yes - we ARE forcing them.  We killed bunch of people and said:  "Now establish a democracy".  That counts as forcing in my book.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Murdock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 2:24pm
Dude, France is like one of the weakest countries in the world. They started the war in Veitnam because they were too weak to fight the NVA regulars and we had to go bail them out.....again, they were overrun by the Germans and we had to bail them out, the only offencive capabilities France can mount is throwing wine corks and paintbrushes in combat. France has been nothing since the days of Napolian or however you spell it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 2:26pm
France is in no way one of the weakest countries, as it has time and time again bailed our asses out of a pinch. They only started the conflict in Vietnam by thinking they could run it like a colony, much like some of our imperialistic ideals. It seems like everyone picks on France because they are that friend that says "hey, you guys are messing up big time and we will not help you." I'd much rather have them then England that says "hey, I know you're wrong, but I'll ride it out with you because I don't want to make you mad."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Murdock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 2:31pm
Next time France gets conquered, I say we let whoever takes it have their way with the sorry place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 2:33pm
You are truly misguided by whatever uninformed opinions you let yourself get fooled by.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goodsmitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 2:37pm

I see that George Bush is not alone in still believing that Iraq was a good war to get into. The Tippmann forum is a bastion of misinformation perpetuated by nationalistic idealism.

"Reading this thread, I'm sad to say that the only difference between the average American and the average Taliban is economic status."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 2:39pm

Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

You are truly misguided by whatever uninformed opinions you let yourself get fooled by.

God Bless America.

No really, we need it.


Hey, nice marmot!
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