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I am reading the bible.

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Darur View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 5:46am
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Another thing that bothers me is if God is such a wonferful being and all good? Why hasnt he forgiven Satan yet? Hasnt he suffered long enough? What kind of God ia a hypocrite to tell his followers to forgive and not do so himself.

Glad Lady Clark was around tonight to do all the work. :P


Read the Old Testament.  Where does it say God doesnt forgive Satan though? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rockerdoode Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 6:12am

oh. snap.

This is getting good.  And like Cedric, I also hate the jesus fish.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 10:48am
Ummm, Satan has been suffering for a very long time already it would seem.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperXero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 11:16am
Maybe God, originally sent Lucifer to the underworld to suffer, but having forgave him, allowed him to become ruler of all those like him, and now he is happy?

Hades, you're happy... aren't you?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fractus.scud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 11:44am

Satan hates God, Satan dosen't want to be forgiven, and he never will. I am Roman Catholic. My father is protestant, and my mom's entire family is Catholic. (we get into some pretty inetersting arguments lol) anyway, we are all Christians, and saying only one of us is right would be incorrect. There is only one heaven, and anyone who believes in God and Jesus can get there. Dosen't matter if your Catholic, or Protestant, or even Jewish.

Different people have different worship styles. I don't care for Protestant masses, I like my church and it's thundering organ that can shake the entire 1,060 seat church more than a guitar. But that's just me (not to mention my mom's the organist and I can play many songs on the organ) Other people like the newer style of worship. But we are all still worshiping the same God.

Now Mormons and the Jehova Wittneses have much different beliefs than the regualr Christians. I mean it gets way different (my dad studies this stuff) Now does that mean they are not going to Heaven because they are worshiping a false God which they *think is the real one? Maybe, that's not for me to decide, it's up to God. Basically IMO The Catholics, Methodists, Lutherens, Angelicans, and not to modern Protestants have the same basic beliefs. The only real difference between Catholics and Protestants is we believe the Eucharist is Jesus's "flesh" and the wine "blood". (don't take it literal) and Protestants sometimes think we are Mary worshipers which we aren't at all. I still think some of the most knowledgable people out their are the Jewish Rabbis though.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 12:05pm
Why shouldnt the flesh and blood thing be taken literally? It seems pretty clear cut that God wants his followers o be cannibles.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ejp414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by fractus.scud fractus.scud wrote:

1. There is only one heaven, and anyone who believes in God and Jesus can get there. Dosen't matter if your Catholic, or Protestant, or even Jewish.

2. Now does that mean they are not going to Heaven because they are worshiping a false God which they *think is the real one? Maybe, that's not for me to decide, it's up to God.


1. Yeah, except for the fact that Jews don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah (see #2). And when you say ". . . anyone . . . can get there," you do mean can and not will, correct?

2. You say that you are Roman Catholic, but apparently some of your other family's beliefs have rubbed off on you. See my earlier post that deals with Catholic teaching on salvation and not worshipping the Catholic God.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ejp414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Ummm, Satan has been suffering for a very long time already it would seem.


You'll be hard-pressed to find much scripture about Satan in the Old Testament, really.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperXero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Why shouldnt the flesh and blood thing be taken literally? It seems pretty clear cut that God wants his followers o be cannibles.


That's how I worship at least.


What a devout Christian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fractus.scud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by Ejp414 Ejp414 wrote:

Originally posted by fractus.scud fractus.scud wrote:

1. There is only one heaven, and anyone who believes in God and Jesus can get there. Dosen't matter if your Catholic, or Protestant, or even Jewish.

2. Now does that mean they are not going to Heaven because they are worshiping a false God which they *think is the real one? Maybe, that's not for me to decide, it's up to God.


1. Yeah, except for the fact that Jews don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah (see #2). And when you say ". . . anyone . . . can get there," you do mean can and not will, correct?

2. You say that you are Roman Catholic, but apparently some of your other family's beliefs have rubbed off on you. See my earlier post that deals with Catholic teaching on salvation and not worshipping the Catholic God.

Let me rephrase myself a little better. Not anyone can get to heaven. You have to believe in God and Jesus and most importantly worship Him and follow his teachings.

Catholics and Protestants both worship the same God. Our Pastor has made this clear several times. Someone made a post about 3 different ways to get to the Lake of Salvation. That's basically the general train of thought in my parish, but you must believe in God and Jesus to get their. Being an Athiest that dosent break the laws of the USA won't get you there.


Benny go home!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by Darur Darur wrote:

I dont consider most of the Baptist branch to be Christian.  Many do not tolatate and even hate Homosexuals, followers of other religions and the like.  They dont follow Christiantiy.

...

One good example of what I am reffering to is the idea of God and Satan taking on other forms.  One novel I read a while ago addressing all Gods as one and all demons as one reffered to Satan as the god of War, Death and what have you for one religion.  Hard to explain but its an interesting Hypothesis.


And those are fine, open-minded views.  Too bad those are not the positions of the overwhelming majority of Christians in the world, nor of a significant number of denominations.

The fundamental issue of Christianity (subject to EJP's exception) remains (as pointed out again by fractus above) - to be cool you have to believe.  To be cool you have to conform.  Any deviation from the accepted brain-wave pattern sends you directly to the burning pits of Hell.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 12:51pm

Originally posted by Ejp414 Ejp414 wrote:

Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

If that means I will burn in hell for eternity, then so be it - I will burn knowing that I held fast to my moral beliefs.


What do you know, we're basically twins.

I mean, at least as far as this general line of thought goes . . . .

Yeah.

Hey, we are both open-minded, hot & sexy teenage girls...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fractus.scud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by Darur Darur wrote:

I dont consider most of the Baptist branch to be Christian.  Many do not tolatate and even hate Homosexuals, followers of other religions and the like.  They dont follow Christiantiy.

...

One good example of what I am reffering to is the idea of God and Satan taking on other forms.  One novel I read a while ago addressing all Gods as one and all demons as one reffered to Satan as the god of War, Death and what have you for one religion.  Hard to explain but its an interesting Hypothesis.


And those are fine, open-minded views.  Too bad those are not the positions of the overwhelming majority of Christians in the world, nor of a significant number of denominations.

The fundamental issue of Christianity (subject to EJP's exception) remains (as pointed out again by fractus above) - to be cool you have to believe.  To be cool you have to conform.  Any deviation from the accepted brain-wave pattern sends you directly to the burning pits of Hell.

Yeah but conform to what? Giving thanks to God for giving you everything you have? It's not like they regulate our lifestyles, besides not doing illegal stuff but whats wrong with that. And technically, you are conforming, not with God but with the World and it's new age "beliefs". God knows we aren't perfect, he even says he knows we will screw up, and he's willing to forgive us. You don't have to be Mr. Perfect to make it to Heaven, you should try to be your best but even God knows your going to screw up here and there.


Benny go home!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 2:20pm

Fractus (or anybody else who wants to play) - true or false:

If I deny the divinity or existence of god, or deny that Jesus is my lord and savior, or other similar denial, then I am not admitted to Heaven.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by Ejp414 Ejp414 wrote:

Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

We now know that jesus was called the "Way of God"
Not the son, never does he say he is the son. And in the origional
bible, jesus was not devine. He gained his divinity in Neace, a bunch
of people got together to discuss religion, Jesus, yoshewa, the king of
the jews, dessended from the the lines of king david and the isrealite
tribe of Benjamin, magicaly became devine. The books that displayed
jesus as a less devine being, disapeered.

Thinking about the missing years of jesus' life? Maybe the fact that he
wasnt married? Highly iregular in that time for a jewish man to not
take a wife.


Do you know what Christology is? Just in case you don't (and
dictionary.com does not give a very good definition), it is a study of
who Jesus really was—how "divine" He was, among other things.

There are two kinds of Christology: high and low. High asserts that Jesus was divine, while low states that He was no<span style="font-style: italic;">t.</span> Simple enough, right?

The earlier gospels tend to favor a low Christology, but sometimes, and
especially in the Gospel of John, a high Christology crops up. So, it
is erroneous to say that the gospels never claimed that Jesus was/is
divine.

Also, where in the Bible does the question of whether or not He was
married appear? I don't think that it does, but I could be wrong here.
I <span style="font-style: italic;">think </span>that the concept of
Jesus being unmarried came later in time. However, it is only rational
to assume that He probably never married since none of the more legit
writings really mention a wife.


I it never says the word "wife" but it does say companion. I think mary magdaline was his wife. It says he kissed her on the mouth a lot, a whole bunch of other things.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 4:16pm
Originally posted by Ejp414 Ejp414 wrote:


Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

St. Terasa had sex with an angel. Bickety bam, sainted.

But if you have problems with individual verse. Your picking the
wrong bones. Verse like that, has been changed so many times. That you
are arguing the wrong points.


Um, Do you mean the same St. Teresa who helped found the Discalced Carmelites?

And also, you'd be surprised how intact the Bible is compared to how it
was in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Of course, that probably has a great deal
to do with the fact that in translations a bunch of leeway is given,
and the original translators of the Dead Sea Scrolls were all Catholic
. . . .

But, hey, who knows, right?


No, your talking about the lady that recently died. St. Teresa, there is a famous sculpture by Bernini of her. And the bible is not intact, it has been changed over time by accident and forsibly by kings. It has been changed to acomodate politics and for other reasons as well. The book about to be deleted, the Song of Solomon is an exelent example.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fractus.scud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Fractus (or anybody else who wants to play) - true or false:

If I deny the divinity or existence of god, or deny that Jesus is my lord and savior, or other similar denial, then I am not admitted to Heaven.

 

ummmm, 99.999% no. I left the .1% because I'm not God and I can't promise anything.


Benny go home!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 4:26pm
Thats what it says in the bible. If you deny Jesus, you go to hell.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Ummm, Satan has been suffering for a very long time already it would seem.


Yes, he preaches forgivness. But you have to ask to be forgiven. It says in the bible that only the penetant man will go to heaven. Penetent meaning humble. Shai'tan, Satan, The Morning Star.. whatever, he isnt humble, he is prideful, he believes he is equal to god. He does not want to be forgiven. He cant bring himself to ask. He is far too proud. He loves god, but his shame is too great for him, he is too proud, the word of god was taken from him, and it hurts. Angelic lore says that all the demons were once loved by god, but they fell. It also says that once you know the word of god, truely know, you can never fully turn from it. I think its the same with demons and satan, they love god but are too proud to ask for forgiveness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ejp414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 7:34pm
Originally posted by fractus.scud fractus.scud wrote:

Originally posted by Ejp414 Ejp414 wrote:

Originally posted by fractus.scud fractus.scud wrote:

1. There is only one heaven, and anyone who believes in God and Jesus can get there. Dosen't matter if your Catholic, or Protestant, or even Jewish.

2. Now does that mean they are not going to Heaven because they are worshiping a false God which they *think is the real one? Maybe, that's not for me to decide, it's up to God.


1. Yeah, except for the fact that Jews don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah (see #2). And when you say ". . . anyone . . . can get there," you do mean can and not will, correct?

2. You say that you are Roman Catholic, but apparently some of your other family's beliefs have rubbed off on you. See my earlier post that deals with Catholic teaching on salvation and not worshipping the Catholic God.

Let me rephrase myself a little better. Not anyone can get to heaven. You have to believe in God and Jesus and most importantly worship Him and follow his teachings.

Catholics and Protestants both worship the same God. Our Pastor has made this clear several times. Someone made a post about 3 different ways to get to the Lake of Salvation. That's basically the general train of thought in my parish, but you must believe in God and Jesus to get their. Being an Athiest that dosent break the laws of the USA won't get you there.



Well, all I am telling you is that your beliefs differ from the dogmatic teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.
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