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I am reading the bible.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fractus.scud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 7:41pm
DogMatic? Exactally to what are you reffering to?

Benny go home!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ejp414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

Originally posted by Ejp414 Ejp414 wrote:


Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

St. Terasa had sex with an angel. Bickety bam, sainted.

But if you have problems with individual verse. Your picking the
wrong bones. Verse like that, has been changed so many times. That you
are arguing the wrong points.


Um, Do you mean the same St. Teresa who helped found the Discalced Carmelites?

And also, you'd be surprised how intact the Bible is compared to how it
was in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Of course, that probably has a great deal
to do with the fact that in translations a bunch of leeway is given,
and the original translators of the Dead Sea Scrolls were all Catholic
. . . .

But, hey, who knows, right?


1. No, your talking about the lady that recently died.

2. St. Teresa, there is a famous sculpture by Bernini of her.

3. And the bible is not intact, it has been changed over time by accident and forsibly by kings. It has been changed to acomodate politics and for other reasons as well. The book about to be deleted, the Song of Solomon is an exelent example.


1. No, I'm not.

2. Bernini's sculpture, The Ecstacy of Teresa, was a depiction of a Teresa of Avila receiving God. It is symbolic; she was never actually stabbed (or, as you seem to have misconstrued it, sexed-up) by an angel. She did a great deal of work for the Church, including her aid in forming the Discalced Carmelites.

3. I'd like to see where you're getting this information. The Song of Solomon is not going to be deleted. It's bad enough when someone tries to mercy-kill Terri Schiavo; can you imagine what would happen if anyone were to delete a book from the Bible? That book has been approved and part of the Bible for over one thousand years.

And the Bible has not really been edited to Kingdom come like people say. Yes, it has been translated, but it's nowhere near so bad as one would think.

I'm not a Christian desperately trying to defend his religion here; I'm simply an atheist being objective.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ejp414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 7:45pm
Originally posted by fractus.scud fractus.scud wrote:

DogMatic? Exactally to what are you reffering to?


Try reading my post about the paths to "Lake Salvation." It's not my personal opinion, especially considering that I don't even believe in God.

Rather, it's the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. Read the post, maybe even do a little research if you don't buy it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fractus.scud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 8:22pm
Iv'e never heard that taught in Church, or P.R.E.P before (my parishes' version of C.C.D.). We do believe other Christians can make it to Heaven but Iv'e never heard of non-believers making it there. Do you have any link that officially links that idea to the Roman Catholic Church?

Benny go home!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 8:23pm
Originally posted by Ejp414 Ejp414 wrote:


Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

Originally posted by Ejp414 Ejp414 wrote:


Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

St. Terasa had sex with an angel. Bickety bam, sainted.

But if you have problems with individual verse. Your picking the
wrong bones. Verse like that, has been changed so many times. That you
are arguing the wrong points.


Um, Do you mean the same St. Teresa who helped found the Discalced Carmelites?

And also, you'd be surprised how intact the Bible is compared to how it
was in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Of course, that probably has a great deal
to do with the fact that in translations a bunch of leeway is given,
and the original translators of the Dead Sea Scrolls were all Catholic
. . . .

But, hey, who knows, right?


1. No, your talking about the lady that recently died.

2. St. Teresa, there is a famous sculpture by Bernini of her.

3. And the bible is not intact, it has been changed over time by
accident and forsibly by kings. It has been changed to acomodate
politics and for other reasons as well. The book about to be deleted,
the Song of Solomon is an exelent example.


1. No, I'm not.

2. Bernini's sculpture, <span style="font-style: italic;">The Ecstacy of Teresa</span>,
was a depiction of a Teresa of Avila receiving God. It is symbolic; she
was never actually stabbed (or, as you seem to have misconstrued it,
sexed-up)
by an angel. She did a great deal of work for the Church,
including her aid in forming the Discalced Carmelites.

3. I'd like to see where you're getting this information. The Song of
Solomon is not going to be deleted. It's bad enough when someone tries
to mercy-kill Terri Schiavo; can you imagine what would happen if
anyone were to delete a book from the <span style="font-style: italic;">Bible</span>? That book has been approved and part of the Bible for over one thousand years.

And the Bible has not really been edited to Kingdom come like people
say. Yes, it has been translated, but it's nowhere near so bad as one
would think.

I'm not a Christian desperately trying to defend his religion here; I'm simply an atheist being objective.


Go to church you will learn a lot.

And go look at the sculpture and read the inscription.

Edited by DBibeau855
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ejp414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 11:58pm
Originally posted by fractus.scud fractus.scud wrote:

Iv'e never heard that taught in Church, or P.R.E.P before (my parishes' version of C.C.D.). We do believe other Christians can make it to Heaven but Iv'e never heard of non-believers making it there. Do you have any link that officially links that idea to the Roman Catholic Church?


You can go and research Vatican II. My earlier post (directed to Clark Kent) quotes a statement from it and also provides a source.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ejp414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2005 at 12:06am
Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

Originally posted by Ejp414 Ejp414 wrote:


Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

Originally posted by Ejp414 Ejp414 wrote:


Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

St. Terasa had sex with an angel. Bickety bam, sainted.

But if you have problems with individual verse. Your picking the
wrong bones. Verse like that, has been changed so many times. That you
are arguing the wrong points.


Um, Do you mean the same St. Teresa who helped found the Discalced Carmelites?

And also, you'd be surprised how intact the Bible is compared to how it
was in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Of course, that probably has a great deal
to do with the fact that in translations a bunch of leeway is given,
and the original translators of the Dead Sea Scrolls were all Catholic
. . . .

But, hey, who knows, right?


1. No, your talking about the lady that recently died.

2. St. Teresa, there is a famous sculpture by Bernini of her.

3. And the bible is not intact, it has been changed over time by
accident and forsibly by kings. It has been changed to acomodate
politics and for other reasons as well. The book about to be deleted,
the Song of Solomon is an exelent example.


1. No, I'm not.

2. Bernini's sculpture, <span style="font-style: italic;">The Ecstacy of Teresa</span>,
was a depiction of a Teresa of Avila receiving God. It is symbolic; she
was never actually stabbed (or, as you seem to have misconstrued it,
sexed-up)
by an angel. She did a great deal of work for the Church,
including her aid in forming the Discalced Carmelites.

3. I'd like to see where you're getting this information. The Song of
Solomon is not going to be deleted. It's bad enough when someone tries
to mercy-kill Terri Schiavo; can you imagine what would happen if
anyone were to delete a book from the <span style="font-style: italic;">Bible</span>? That book has been approved and part of the Bible for over one thousand years.

And the Bible has not really been edited to Kingdom come like people
say. Yes, it has been translated, but it's nowhere near so bad as one
would think.

I'm not a Christian desperately trying to defend his religion here; I'm simply an atheist being objective.


Go to church you will learn a lot.

And go look at the sculpture and read the inscription.


Just out of curiousity, have you even seen the sculpture?

Here's a picture of it:


Note first that they are both clothed. Then you may realize that Teresa is about to be stabbed by the arrow that the angel is wielding. All of this is symbolic; it represents Teresa's receiving God, and, no, I don't mean that with a wink and a nudge, if you get my drift.

I'll have you know that, being a student minister, I do go to church. I have studied the Bible and Church history extensively, and I hate to be cocky, but I would wager the house that I know more about Catholicism than most Catholics do.

And, after all, if you don't believe me, then just research. The answers are all there, I swear. Somewhere you can find the statements issued at Vatican II, an artistic explanation of Bernini's sculpture, or even the biography of Saint Teresa of Avila. Just research.



Edited by Ejp414
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