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Zesty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zesty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 4:04pm
A line from my gun safety instructor:

"A .22 slug that hits its intended target is INFINITELY more lethal than a .44 that misses."

Moral of the story...your firepower ain't poop if you can't hit what you're aiming at.

Of course, so long as you can shoot both with equal accuracy, bigger is better most the time.

There is always something to say for having a few extra rounds of capacity in the mag.
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Pariel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pariel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 4:08pm
That's what training is for.

It's true, but anything below .40 or so really doesn't have a whole lot of actual stopping power. When I shoot at someone, it's because I made an educated decision, based on my current situation, that it is in the interests of my safety to fire a round designed to kill at this person. That means I want them down, on the ground, as fast as possible. 9mm and .22, and most of those small sizes, just don't handle that. .32 doesn't do a bad job, but talk about overpenetration.
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Zesty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zesty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 4:12pm
^So, you've shot people with all those different calibers? You outlaw!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 4:12pm

Originally posted by Pariel Pariel wrote:



When I shoot at someone...

!!!

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Zesty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zesty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 4:13pm
I can honestly say I've slaughtered about 2 dozen hogs in my life, and every one of them was killed DEAD AS A STONE with a .22LR slug behind the ear.

I also am an avid airgunner, and many people constantly drop deer, hogs, and coyotes with even .177 caliber airguns.

It's not about slug size, it's about shot placement.
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Zesty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zesty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 4:14pm
The hogs were all well over 200 pounds, and I'm pretty sure the average 200 pound wild hog is a bit tougher than the average 200 pound human being.

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Pariel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pariel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 4:22pm
You're missing the point here.

We're talking about a person who is already moving, with the intent to hurt you. Perfect shot placement takes time, which you will not have. If you're got a few seconds, but probably not. You have to react, which means you better have an advantage that they don't, because they have one right there.

Also, most animals have important body parts packed together, which humans don't. We've got lots of big, unimportant ones, which we can get shot in and live.

Can you hit someone from 15 yards with a .22 behind the ear in a second? Didn't think so.

That was hypothetical Clark. I spent about five minutes rolling on the floor laughing after you pointed that out.

When you're in a position where time is of the essence, you can't use up that time taking a single shot, unless you've shooting something that puts them down the first time. Most people can take more than one .45 shot in their central body mass before they go down, and I've met a guy who took 6 9mm bullets in his left shoulder(great group, actually, about 3 1/2 inches at 20 feet) from a drive-by, and lived to tell the story. Actually his story was really wierd, and he believes he actually died, saw Hell, and came alive again during the same experience. I don't know about that part, but he has the wounds to prove he got shot.
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Zesty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zesty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 4:32pm
I think you're actually missing my point.

I have a couple 12guages that I have for home defense, I feel they are WAY more effective than ANY caliber of handgun in a home defense situation, or really any self-defense situation.

I only made my post to give a little lesson I learned long ago, and you took it as an attack on your choice of guns....I really don't care what you shoot and didn't even read your post, you just seemd to respond to me assuming my post was directed towards you.
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Dune View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 4:32pm
Yeah, Asp Handcuffs are a brand, and are very nice. The Asp is an extendable baton as well. No, I do not carry the Sig off duty, I am not a big fan of those weapons at all.
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Zesty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zesty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 4:36pm
"Can you hit someone from 15 yards with a .22 behind the ear in a second? Didn't think so. "

No need to get all pissy! The fact is, you can't do that with a .45 either, and on the whole, it's a lot easier to shoot a .22 accurately than a .45.

So, like you said, it's a moving shot on a human intruder....tough shot! What if you completely miss with your big ol' .45, but I wing him with my .22?

That's my only point.....a .45 ain't crap if it doesn't hit the target, and too many people think they are all "big and bad" because they have the "biggest and best"...they need to realize that the only person that matters is not the one with the biggest gun, but the one that is still living when all is said and done.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zesty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 4:37pm
So Dune, what do you carry offduty? If you don't min me asking, that is.
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Pariel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pariel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 4:37pm
That was my feeling as well-HK's and 1911s are more my personal style.

I've never liked shooting shotguns. I'm not too incredibly good with them and skeet, but I'm sure I could hit a person. I'd much rather put a clip of .45 into them than a couple of 12 gauge rounds. The only shotgun I would ever use for defense, or at all, would be a one of the sawed off, stockless, pistol-grip-pump 12s, which are extremely illegal, at least in New Jersey. Plus, anything with a stock wouldn't fit through most of the corners in my house.

I don't see who else you could be talking to...Dune only stated facts.

*EDIT* I don't need to hit him behind the ear, that's the point. Having been winged by a deflected .22 before, it won't do crap. I'm proficient enough wit a .45 to hit any man-sized target at 15 yards the first time, and if I miss, to get off another shot quickly enough that I don't think it would matter.

I seriously doubt I could hit someone behind the ear with my .45. I'm shooting for immediate takedown power, not ammunition conservation and accuracy.

Edited by Pariel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 4:39pm

http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&s tyle=BA035&cat=594

Asp's seem to be about 5 bucks more than Galls brand.

I love Galls catalogs.


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Pariel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pariel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 4:41pm
I've never actually seen that place before-bookmarked!
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Zesty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zesty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 4:42pm
^Dude, did you even read my whole first post before you got all defensive? You are actually a perfect example of my point!

YOU SHOOT WHAT YOU ARE MOST ACCURATE AND COMFORTABLE WITH!!!!

It doesn't matter how powerful a gun is if you can't hit your target. If you can hit your target fine with a powerful handgun, more power to you.

Like I said in my previouc post,"Of course, so long as you can shoot both with equal accuracy, bigger is better most the time."




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Zesty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zesty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 4:44pm
Well, let me wing you with my .22, and I think you wouldn't shoot that .45 as accurately!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pariel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 4:46pm
I can't say I've ever been in that situation, but I was pretty surprised when I got winged the first time, but I doubt it would throw me off enough to miss a person. It didn't even make me bleed, I just had a tiny crease.

You may have said that I shoot the thing I'm the most comfortable with, but the whole time you're trying to prove that I'm wrong by saying that everyone says what I'm saying. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me...

*EDIT* By the way, if anyone wants to buy me an early birthday present:



Edited by Pariel
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Zesty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zesty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 5:04pm
^Dude, you are reading WAY too much into things, and kinda being self-centered!

My comments were not directed towards you!

Quite honestly, I've said what I have to say, and you are just not getting my point.

I will say what you call "winged", I would call "grazed".

You greatly underestimate the killing power of smaller calibers, but that's your loss.

I get your point that accuracy is not your primary concern, but in that case a shotgun would own your .45, which is why I have a couple at hand when needed.

I guess I just see the different areas of expertise, and the disadvantages and advantages of all these sized weapons, big and small.
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Pariel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pariel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 5:12pm
I think we can say that we have different styles and thoughts on shooting, and if both works, that's cool.



(Either way, I don't want to get in a real firefight with you...unlike many people on this forum, you can actually shoot!)
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Zesty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zesty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 5:15pm
Just for the record, I see your point in your choice of weapons, and it's a good point.

My only problem is if stopping power is your utmost concern, a .45 is nice and all, but it hardly competes with the good old 12 guage.

But that's where my original point comes in....the 12 guage is the best gun for me because it has all these good qualities, but the foremost one being I am familiar with it and shoot it well. If I didn't shoot it well and wasn't comfortable with it, I would downgrade in firepower to go with something I could handle better.

But for you, you are comfortable with the handgun so that's the best for you.

With me, it's better to take my posts, "as is" rather than read too much into them....I often make general comments that aren't directed towards anyone, just trying to get my (obscure)point across.

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