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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WGP guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2005 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

So what is wrong with sending the money to their home country if we can have free organizations waste potential tax dollars.

According to your arguement wasting money that could help the economy is bad. Therefore not taxing churches is bad.

Yeah the arguement doesnt sound so good when it hits close to what you like, does it?


Do you support taxing the salvation army?  How about all the countless rescue missons?  They operate on donations, much like churches.

I think that taxing churches might not be a bad thing, but they get profit off of donations, hits no certain, steady income.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2005 at 8:11pm
It was an interesting event. I think its the strangest thing that ever happened to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2005 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by Sammy Sammy wrote:

Out of all of our house keepers are gardners all of them were hispanic. None of them were white. Why? Because white people can get better jobs than that.


So outside of the southern states, what race do you think is doing that job?

Edited by Hades

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2005 at 8:14pm

I work at McDonalds. I work with about 3-4 illegals. They are just human beings who want to make some money and live in better conditions. Do you really blame them? They are willing to work for wages that we think are horrid, at jobs that we dont want. So quit complaining and shut it.

We all started off America as illegals.

So lets get off our high horse and put ourselfs in their shoes.

"Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2005 at 8:18pm

Originally posted by WGP guy WGP guy wrote:

I was wondering what you opinion on illegal immigrants was and how we fix the problem.  First of all, they are ruining our economy.  $50,000,000,000 of wages made by illegal immigrants is sent to Mexico.  This is hurting the economy. 

Illegal immigration is a tricky issue.  I am all in favor of enforcing law, as a general matter (including immigration laws), but we should try to consider as many relevant facts as possible when making policy decisions.

Since you raised primarily economic issues, I will elaborate only on those.

First - Your $50,000,000,000 number (the origins of which I am curious about, given the difficulty in documenting these things).  That's 50 BILLION dollars.  That sounds like a really big number, but given that the INS estimated in 2000 that there were approximately 7 million illegal aliens in the US at the time (source), that's only a little more than $7,000 per person.  The US GDP in 2003 was approximately $11,000,000,000,000, or about $35k per person.  Just to put that in perspective.

Second - Most LEGAL immigrants also send money abroad.  Heck, lots of US citizens send money abroad.

Third - Sending money abroad does not make that money "lost" to the US.  Much of that money is spent at McDonald's (or whatever) locally, or spent to support Britney's newest music video.  In a global economy money is never truly "abroad".  Not to mention that it would clearly benefit the US to have a stronger Mexican economy.

Fourth - Many of those illegal immigrants have already paid taxes on that money, to the US IRS.  Some use a special social security number provided by the IRS for that purpose, others use stolen/illegal SSN's.  But pay taxes they do.

Fifth - Those tax-paying illegal immigrants also pay social security taxes, while they are NOT eligible for SS benefits.  So this is a gift to the struggling social security administration to the tune of an estimated $7 Billion per year (source).  Cutting them off would hurt social security.

Sixth - Those illegal immigrants provide valuable services to US society at wages, and on conditions, that Americans are not willing to.  Cutting off illegal immigration would be devastating to the US agriculture industry, for instance (many sectors of US ag industry rely heavily on migrant workers of dubious documentation), as well as the hotel industry, landscaping industry, construction industry, textile industry, and many other important parts of the American economy.  You cannot simply remove 7,000,000 laborers from the workforce without significant impact.  Why do you think that every effort in Congress to do something serious about illegal immigration is met with heavy resistance?

So - while I agree in principle that we ought not have illegal immigration, to suggest that we should simply stop it overnight is naive.  The fact is that we HAVE illegal immigration, and lots of it.  It would no longer be a good thing to simply make the illegals "go away".



Edited by Clark Kent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stormcharger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2005 at 8:18pm
Originally posted by WGP guy WGP guy wrote:

I was wondering what you opinion on illegal immigrants was and how we fix the problem.  First of all, they are ruining our economy.  $50,000,000,000 of wages made by illegal immigrants is sent to Mexico.  This is hurting the economy.  Prostitution, drug distribution, and gang activity is prominant among illegal immigrants.  A lot of times we try to deport them, Mexico won't let them back.

To fix this problem I propose:
  1. Amend the constitution to allow U.S. Forces to act in the United States (with presidential approval).
  2.  Give warning that lethal force will be used if any person crosses the border illegally.
  3. Set up military posts along the border, each one with at least one sniper team.
  4. On spotting illegals crossing the border, fire a warning shot.
  5. If vehicle does not stop or turn around, shoot to kill.

I know people on here are going to go crazy about this, but this is my point of view.  If people want into the country, then they should be forced to do it legally or be killed.

You do of course realize that the reason they are called illegal immigrants is that there is already a law to prevent people from crossing the border.  The law needs to be enforced.  The individual states through their governor can call upon the National Guard to do this.  What I find funny is that farmers along the Mexican border have been shooting illegal immigrants that cross their property for years now averaging 6-10 injuries per month.  But as you can see, everyone is up in arms over a group of citizens cunducting a non-violent protest about the government not enforcing laws passed by the will of the people.  So, on the surface this is about illegal immigration, but the underlying struggle is that the majority of our country is being reminded that the direction of our country does not have to be determined by small groups of people with lawyers. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2005 at 8:18pm
Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:

I work at McDonalds. I work with about 3-4 illegals. They are just human beings who want to make some money and live in better conditions. Do you really blame them? They are willing to work for wages that we think are horrid, at jobs that we dont want. So quit complaining and shut it.


We all started off America as illegals.


So lets get off our high horse and put ourselfs in their shoes.


<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=1>"Give me your tired, your poor,


<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=#000000 size=1>Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,


<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=#000000 size=1>The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.


<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=#000000 size=1>Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,


<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=#000000 size=1>I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=1>



No we all didnt all "Start out as illeagles"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2005 at 8:19pm
Originally posted by WGP guy WGP guy wrote:

Do you support taxing the salvation army? How about all the
countless rescue missons? They operate on donations, much like
churches.


I doesnt matter what I think. It is your arguement. You are saying money that leaves the States is bad because it could be used to help the economy. If this is true according to your arguement you are also saying money that moves around in churches tax free is bad because it is not going into the economy.

You cant have your cake and eat it too.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2005 at 8:23pm
Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:

I work at McDonalds. I work with about 3-4 illegals. They are just human beings who want to make some money and live in better conditions. Do you really blame them? They are willing to work for wages that we think are horrid, at jobs that we dont want. So quit complaining and shut it.


We all started off America as illegals.


So lets get off our high horse and put ourselfs in their shoes.


<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=1>"Give me your tired, your poor,


<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=#000000 size=1>Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,


<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=#000000 size=1>The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.


<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=#000000 size=1>Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,


<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=#000000 size=1>I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=1>



No we all didnt all "Start out as illeagles"

So we owned this land when we got to it?

 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2005 at 8:25pm
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Originally posted by WGP guy WGP guy wrote:

Do you support taxing the salvation army? How about all the
countless rescue missons? They operate on donations, much like
churches.


I doesnt matter what I think. It is your arguement. You are saying money that leaves the States is bad because it could be used to help the economy. If this is true according to your arguement you are also saying money that moves around in churches tax free is bad because it is not going into the economy.

You cant have your cake and eat it too.


K, the church is like a box. The people that give money all put their money into the box. The pastor takes some, and pays taxes on it. The groundskeeper takes some, and pays his taxes. Then a chunk of it goes to charities.

The government still gets money from it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WGP guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2005 at 8:25pm
Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:

Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:

I work at McDonalds. I work with about 3-4 illegals. They are just human beings who want to make some money and live in better conditions. Do you really blame them? They are willing to work for wages that we think are horrid, at jobs that we dont want. So quit complaining and shut it.





No we all didnt all "Start out as illeagles"

So we owned this land when we got to it?

 

No, we fought for it.  If Mexicans want to fight for to obtain United States land, I say let them.  I bet they couldn't even make it past the border states.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2005 at 8:26pm
Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:

So we owned this land when we got to it?


Havent you heard? Americans own the world and get to do whatever they want. God said so.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2005 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:

Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:


I work at McDonalds. I work with about 3-4 illegals. They are just human beings who want to make some money and live in better conditions. Do you really blame them? They are willing to work for wages that we think are horrid, at jobs that we dont want. So quit complaining and shut it.


We all started off America as illegals.


So lets get off our high horse and put ourselfs in their shoes.


<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=1>"Give me your tired, your poor,


<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=#000000 size=1>Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,


<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=#000000 size=1>The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.


<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=#000000 size=1>Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,


<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=#000000 size=1>I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=1>


No we all didnt all "Start out as illeagles"


So we owned this land when we got to it?




What do you mean by we? My family migrated from Ireland to france, stayed there for a couple hundred years then they came from france to here. LEGALY.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2005 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:


K, the church is like a box. The people that give money all put their money into the box. The pastor takes some, and pays taxes on it. The groundskeeper takes some, and pays his taxes. Then a chunk of it goes to charities.
The government still gets money from it.


Yeah but the church isnt getting a cut when the money goes into the box like it does at any other for-profit business.

Therefore money that could be going into the economy is lost.

Edited by Hades

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WGP guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2005 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:

So we owned this land when we got to it?


Havent you heard? Americans own the world and get to do whatever they want. God said so.


More like, our Armed Forces and Strategic Air Command (with our Nuclear Arsenal) said so. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HondaXR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2005 at 8:30pm
hell i wish I was a border patrol...my motto would be "if it aint White waste it"...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rancidpnk13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2005 at 8:31pm
I just don't understand how a person can be "illegal". I guess it's just me, but I can't imagine denying someone entrance into any country because they weren't born there. And the others are right, they take the jobs that none of us Americans want, because we are too good for those kinds of jobs. I work with legal immigrants at my Burger King and they send most of their money home to Ecuador, but they still buy cars in America, food in America, pay taxes to the American government, pay water bills, etc. So next time you get decide to get off your lazy ass and go through a drive-thru to get a Double Whopper with cheese, while you pay some poor man to mow your lawn, think about the PEOPLE that are doing these jobs for you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2005 at 8:31pm
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:

So we owned this land when we got to it?


Havent you heard? Americans own the world and get to do whatever they want. God said so.


What are you two talking about! Do you know the survival rate of the first couple colonies? They are almost nill. I would be willing to bet your families at some point or another came through ellis island or paris island or whatever, point is they most likely got here legaly. Its a slap in the face to the people that work hard to get a green card and even harder to become a citizen.

Edited by DBibeau855
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2005 at 8:32pm
HAHA, ignorance is truely bliss.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2005 at 8:33pm
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:


K, the church is like a box. The people that give money all put their money into the box. The pastor takes some, and pays taxes on it. The groundskeeper takes some, and pays his taxes. Then a chunk of it goes to charities.
The government still gets money from it.


Yeah but the church isnt getting a cut when the money goes into the box like it does at any other for-profit business.

Therefore money that could be going into the economy is lost.


Its not a for profit entity. Nor is it a business.
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