Gun control

Zesty wrote: I keep a 12guage shotgun leaning against the wall by the bed where I sleep. The magazine tube holds 8 rounds with one in the chamber, but I just keep the magazine full.

oh yeah. keeping a loaded firearm by your bed is a safe thing.

I laugh at you for being so parinoid to keep a loaded firearm by your bed for the rare instance that somthing might happen. thats like me not serving food on fine china exept for when the pope comes to visit me, or the queen of england or or or. its pointless.

tippmannboy2 wrote: OK     Most of the anti gun arguments are from people that have never shot a gun or been in a situation when you needed one.

Which anti-gun arguments are these, and who are these people making them?

I like guns, and favor personal ownership.  I just want a rational discussion.

The guy on the forum who is most outspoken in favor of more gun control is Dune, and he is a police officer.  I'll presume he has fired a gun or two.

I carry a .22 pistol in my truck and under my matress when im not in the truck. The gun is unloaded,magizine is not in, and the action is open. That gun has never been pointed at anybody and probably never will but it makes my mom feel safer and I.

And "feel" safer is the operative term.  Do you expect to get a 20-minute warning before a break-in, so that you can wake up, put on your PJ's, turn on the light, dig under the mattress for the gun (where did I put the $%$^%$##$!! ammo), and load it?

The number of situations where that gun would actually help you is so miniscule that you are better off buying that personal lightning rod I mentioned earlier.

I understand feeling safer.  But feeling safer is very different from actually being safer.

If somebody is stealing inside my house they certianly will get a leg full of lead. I dont want to kill anybody.

So your plan, after you have loaded your gun (with your intruder patiently waiting), is to delicately shoot the intruder in the leg?

Sorry, dude, but your plan bears no resemblance to reality.

If they outlaw guns only outlaws will have them. I personaly dont care if they do outlaw them. I always have and always will own multiple firearms.

Think about this quote for a minute...  what does that say about you?

Edited by Clark Kent

The right to bear arms is not about hunting.

It is not about protecting yourself and your family.

It is not about being able to say "Hey Bubba, check out what I just got."

It is about keeping the ultimate right of veto in the hands of the average citizen.  It is about the militia (colonial definition-white male landowners; commonly accepted current definition-citizens over the age of 18) being equipped to get the attention of an unresponsive/tyranical government the same way the colonies got the attention of the British back in the 1700s. 

The bill of rights were written because those were specific rights that were being infringed upon by the British Government.  The right to keep and bear arms is the "teeth" of the bill of rights.  The framers of the constitution reasoned that is easier to defend your right to free speech, or a free press if you have the means to do so. 

What does this mean in today's world?  If George W. declared himself King George III and refused to allow further elections does it mean that an armed militia would rise and defeat the forces backing him. No it doesn't.

• Hopefully a significant portion of the military would choose to follow their oath to "support and defend the constitution of the United States" as opposed to backing an illegal power grab by a duly elected politician.
• What military support he had would still be better equipped than any citizens defending their rights, but how willing they would be to slaughter their own citizens in another question.  Keep in mind armed citizens are much easier to slaughter than subjugate. 
• Furthermore, a widespread rebellion would easily outnumber the military forces that could be mustered to suppress it.  (It would be like playing "Whack-a-Mole" with one hammer and 100 mole holes.)
• A common argument for changing the constitution to support stricter gun control is that we now have a government we can trust and certain portions of the bill of rights are no longer relevant.  The "liberal" gun control crowd would like to see the second amendment changed/reinterpreted, but their are also "conservative" attacks on freedom of the press and protection from search and seizure.
  • Anyone who follows the news should be concerned about some of the current debates regarding the Patriot Act.  The potential for the abuse of some of it's existing provisions is scary and is the best argument I can think of for not tampering with the constitution.

Now a couple of quotes just for Clark Kent because I know how much he appreciates them.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither."
- Ben Franklin

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
- Edmund Burke

Edited by Mack

636andy636 wrote: Zesty wrote: I keep a 12guage shotgun leaning against the wall by the bed where I sleep. The magazine tube holds 8 rounds with one in the chamber, but I just keep the magazine full. oh yeah. keeping a loaded firearm by your bed is a safe thing. I laugh at you for being so parinoid to keep a loaded firearm by your bed for the rare instance that somthing might happen. thats like me not serving food on fine china exept for when the pope comes to visit me, or the queen of england or or or. its pointless.

Your analogy is bunk...this is life and death stuff we're talking here, not you're homo-ass china!

I laugh at you for being so naive....have you ever shot a 12gauge, pump-action shotgun?

Like I said, I keep the magazine full with 8 shots, and the chamber clear....the gun must be racked in order to fire a round.

In my opinion, I feel completely safe with this. If you don't like it, don't come over to my house, especially uninvited or unexpected!

Edited by Zesty

Zesty, I generally agree, but you will find that the specific rules vary from place to place.  In most of the country, no gun safety class is required for any firearm or hunting license, other than CC licenses, which kind of frightens me.  I figure if you need to learn how to drive before getting in a car, you should learn how to shoot before getting a gun.

Which restrictions in particular do you consider "too many"?  Which ones do you want to do away with?

You really should shoot it, andy...   You don't really "know how to use it" until you've shot it, and shot it a lot.

WGP guy wrote: Clark Kent wrote: not intervening in a potential abduction because "I didn't have my gun". Uh, about that.  My dad was about to but they drove away.  It kind of looked like they were playing, and no one really took much notice.  We didn't see it till they were about to leave.

So if you would have had a gun you would have charged across the street as the public serving superman you are, loaded and ready, even though it looked like they were joking?

 

Clark Kent wrote: You really should shoot it, andy...   You don't really "know how to use it" until you've shot it, and shot it a lot.

But Clark, what if a group of a dozen ex-KGB commandos bust in my house at midnight, all armed with crowbars and 3 hours high on crystal-meth?? What then hunh??

I will whip out my shotgun I keep loaded at all times within reach and take them out SEAL style as they enter my house, thats what.

Now quiet you dirty ammendment hating lefty.

Sleeping next to my shotgun makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside..
I will probably never have to us it but I like being able to look at it and think I'm prepared.
I just don't like it when anyone tells me how to live my life, you arn't the one that's being affected so don't tell me what to do.
Without the 2nd amendment what stops the government from taking the first?
And Dune what do you think about CCW? good idea of not? Do you carry when your off duty? and just out of curiosity what do you carry?

Clark Kent, it's not really that I want all the laws repealed, I'm fine with most of them.... I would like to have an M16, and I think they should make some sort of class 3 weapons test to make them available to responsible people in every state, but I'm not gonna whine if I can't get it so long as I have access to stuff that can defend me properly.

Just for people that think everybody is running around with a gun, these are just SOME of the CA restrictions:

"State of CA Firearms Prohibiting Categories

Unless otherwise stated, if you fall into any of the following categories you are prohibited from possessing a firearm in CA for life.

-Person convicted of a felony or any offense in section 12021.1 of the Penal Code.
-Person who is a fugitive from justice.
-Person while under indictment for just about anything.
-Person who’s addicted to drugs.
-Person denied a firearm as a condition of probation.
-Juveniles who are or were wards of the juvenile court because of some crime they committed can’t own a firearm until they reach age 30.
-Person who has just about any kind of restraining order filed against them can’t possess a firearm while the restraining order is in effect.
-Person found by a court to be mentally incompetent to stand trial, found not guilty to some crime by reason of insanity, or found to be a mentally disordered sex offender.
-Person placed under a conservatorship because of a mental disorder or alcoholism.
-Person who communicates a threat to a licensed psychotherapist against someone else and the psychotherapist reports it to law enforcement is prohibited from possessing a firearm for the next six months.
-Person taken into custody as a danger to self or others and committed to a mental health facility is prohibited from possessing a firearm for the next 5 years.
-Person who is a voluntary patient in a mental health facility is prohibited from possessing a firearm between admission and release.
Firearms Prohibiting Misdemeanors

Any person convicted of any of the following misdemeanors is prohibited from owning a firearm in CA for 10 years following the conviction.

-Threatening public officers, public employees, school officials, public appointees, judges or their staff or immediate families.
Intimidating witnesses or victims.
-Attempting to take a firearm away from a police officer.
-Unauthorized possession of just about any kind of weapon in a state or local public building or at a public meeting.
-Possessing a loaded firearm within the state capitol or legislative offices.
-Possessing a loaded firearm within the governor’s mansion or the residence or any other constitutional officer.
-Providing a firearm to a person for use by a criminal street gang.
-Assault or battery on anyone.
-Assault with a stun gun, taser, deadly weapon, or any instrument likely to produce great bodily injury.
-Shooting at an inhabited dwelling or just plain grossly negligent discharge of a firearm.
-Willful infliction of physical injury on a spouse, former spouse, cohabitant, former cohabitant, or the mother or father of a child of one of these people.
-Violation of a court order against harassment, disturbing the peace, threats or acts of violence, or violating a domestic protective/restraining order.
-Drawing, exhibiting, or using any deadly weapon other than a firearm for any reason except self-defense.
-Drawing or exhibiting a firearm in the presence of a police officer.
-Purchasing, selling, manufacturing, shipping, transporting, distributing, or receiving an imitation firearm. This does not include obvious toys.
-Inflicting serious bodily injury by drawing or exhibiting a firearm or any other deadly weapon.
-Threatening to commit any crime that might result in the death or great bodily injury to another person.
-Possessing a firearm in a school zone or on school grounds.
-Willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly following or harassing another person (stalking).
-Carrying a loaded firearm with the intent to commit a felony.
-Possessing any deadly weapon with the intent to assault anyone.
-Allowing a firearm in or to be discharged from a motor vehicle that you own or are driving (no matter who in the vehicle has possession of the firearm).
-Criminal possession of a firearm in public while wearing a mask.
-Unauthorized possession, transportation, manufacture, or sale of a machinegun.
-Possession of armor piercing ammunition.
-Carrying a concealed or loaded firearm or any deadly weapon or wearing a police uniform while picketing. (Does this include real cops?)
-Bringing or sending contraband into or possessing contraband within a juvenile or youth authority institution. (Contraband could be a pack of cigarettes)
Firearms prohibitions as specified in sections 8100, 8101, & 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code (You gotta look this up yourself). "

That alone is enough restirctions for me! But that's just the tip of the iceburg.