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Terry Schiavo

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Knight of Fire View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Knight of Fire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2005 at 2:52pm
Originally posted by Badsmitty Badsmitty wrote:

Originally posted by Knight of Fire Knight of Fire wrote:

Originally posted by AdmiralSenn AdmiralSenn wrote:

Originally posted by goodsmitty goodsmitty wrote:


I saw today that the conservative Christians are threatening to vote the GOP out of office in the next election if they don't keep Terri alive. I guess the religious right didn't read the fine print in their contract with the devil...


What the flying blue <insert curse word here>? What is your problem?
same here. guess what buddy im a catholic. you got a problem that i supported bush? or do just hate us catholics because we are pro life.


Ooh a pro-life war president supporter named knight of fire.  I gotta lay off Zesty's dope.  The world is so confusing.

So your just going to turn this into a personal attack against anyone against your views? Im stopping right there so I don't go into flamming you.


This topic is getting outa hand.


but end in end I stick to my opinions, terri should live.......


EDIT: to good smittys: my bad thought you were making a attack against my religion. didn't know......sorry

Edited by Knight of Fire
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2005 at 2:55pm

Let me ask you this, KoF:  I have a document, carefully drafted and executed, that gives certain people the right to pull the plug on me if they deem appropriate, and actually DIRECTS them to do so if certain conditions are met.

What is your view of this?  If I go into a Schiavo-like state, and somebody shows up with the document and wants to disconnect me.  Should I be disconnected?

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Knight of Fire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2005 at 3:09pm
Thats your opinion. if you did that, and you don't mind it at all, then fine thats your decision.

But with Terri, its unconfirmed if she said that, its also against her religion and her known atitude, and it turns out that the husband has flipflopped, in 1992 he was awarded 1,000,000 dollers in insurence money for the care of his wife, stating he would care for her untill she died from a natural death of old age or the like

he now says he wants her dead... thats definetly a change from what he said in 92
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AdmiralSenn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2005 at 3:12pm
I still doesn't understand how voting for a presidential candidate is relevant.. it's not like either candidate is perfect, and nobody said they were (minus some loonies). It certainly doesn't call for remarks like the one I quoted.

And Clark: I know this wasn't directed at me, but what the hey.

I'm uncomfortable with that idea. On the one hand, it is your wish, but on the other, it's essentially euthanasia (again).

Let me do some pondering.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2005 at 3:14pm

Originally posted by AdmiralSenn AdmiralSenn wrote:

And Clark: I know this wasn't directed at me, but what the hey.

I'm uncomfortable with that idea. On the one hand, it is your wish, but on the other, it's essentially euthanasia (again). 

It is not an easy issue.  But you might think of it as delayed-action suicide instead of euthanasia, if that helps.

But let me tell you - that document was the easy part.  The hard part was being named as the decision-maker on a similar document for somebody else.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2005 at 3:18pm

Originally posted by Knight of Fire Knight of Fire wrote:

Thats your opinion. if you did that, and you don't mind it at all, then fine thats your decision.

But with Terri, its unconfirmed if she said that, its also against her religion and her known atitude, and it turns out that the husband has flipflopped, in 1992 he was awarded 1,000,000 dollers in insurence money for the care of his wife, stating he would care for her untill she died from a natural death of old age or the like

he now says he wants her dead... thats definetly a change from what he said in 92

Well, practically every judge in Florida has looked at this by now, as well as a variety of Federal judges.  They presumably see more evidence than you or I.  They all agree that this is what Teri wanted.

Shouldn't we at some point trust our judiciary, or at least the people with the most information, to make these decisions?  This is what they do, after all.  This is exactly the type of thing we as a society have entrusted in them.

It is a bit hypocritical of us to rely on the courts when it suits us but reject the courts when we don't like their decisions.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badsmitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2005 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by Knight of Fire Knight of Fire wrote:

Originally posted by Badsmitty Badsmitty wrote:

Originally posted by Knight of Fire Knight of Fire wrote:

Originally posted by AdmiralSenn AdmiralSenn wrote:

Originally posted by goodsmitty goodsmitty wrote:


I saw today that the conservative Christians are threatening to vote the GOP out of office in the next election if they don't keep Terri alive. I guess the religious right didn't read the fine print in their contract with the devil...


What the flying blue <insert curse word here>? What is your problem?
same here. guess what buddy im a catholic. you got a problem that i supported bush? or do just hate us catholics because we are pro life.


Ooh a pro-life war president supporter named knight of fire.  I gotta lay off Zesty's dope.  The world is so confusing.

So your just going to turn this into a personal attack against anyone against your views? Im stopping right there so I don't go into flamming you.


This topic is getting outa hand.


but end in end I stick to my opinions, terri should live.......


EDIT: to good smittys: my bad thought you were making a attack against my religion. didn't know......sorry

I'm not attacking you personally, I'm lumping you in with the rest of the pro-life brow-beaters.  Death is O.K. when you are in charge of the selection line.  Flame away, I won't tell, I promise. 



Edited by Badsmitty
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Knight of Fire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2005 at 3:24pm
ok but at the same time, the judges in florida have no right to even tell Govener Jeb Bush to buzz off, they can't do so to also congress and the president. It is written in the LAW

also the court has said that the husband can remove the feeding tube, however maybe the husband might want to read the fine print, He can not with hold food or water from her. which from the family seeing if its possible, Terri can eat normaly and drink water with little to no problem.......

EDIT: badsmitty In your post you wrote this and I quote

"Ooh a pro-life war president supporter named knight of fire. I gotta lay off Zesty's dope. The world is so confusing."


in that first sentence you are personally attacking me buddy. So what if I supported Bush, who I supported in the elections DOESN'T MEAN CRAP IN THIS TOPIC!


Edited by Knight of Fire
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackDeath7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2005 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by Bunkered Bunkered wrote:

Originally posted by BlackDeath7 BlackDeath7 wrote:


Originally posted by Frozen Balls Frozen Balls wrote:


Originally posted by BlackDeath7 BlackDeath7 wrote:

Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:

He isnt, you are the one thats naive. Do you really
think she will wake up? She wont.. She has no spinal cord left.


What are you talking about?  She isn't in a coma.  Do you even know what you are talking about?


Read my previous post; her brain is essentially dead. It would take an act of god to revive her.


You know what?  It might take an act of God for her to be healed,
but she isn't just a hunk of meat laying on a bed.  She can react
and respond to certain things and she can say one word phrases as I've
mentioned before.  She isn't vegetative, there was just an article
in my local newspaper saying many neurologists and doctors who have
examined her have no reason to say she is vegetative because she can
RESPOND to certain things.


Who says she can respond to certain things? The media? The government?
They're manipulating you. I believe her doctors more than any other source, and they were quoted as saying she was vegetative on the same news stations that are saying she isn't vegetative.

She IS essentially a hunk of meat lying on a bed, as cruel as that sounds.
Just because she says some "words" doesn't mean she's responding. Perhaps muscle memory, in combination with breathing patterns and such make noises that sound like words.
If she can string a halfway coherent phrase together, or even answer "yes" or "no" when asked a question, I would believe she's not braindead. Maybe they should ask her if she wants to die and see what she says.


I don't know where to start.  Well, I'll start here.  Some media reports claim she isn't vegetative and some claim she is.  Another thing, not all of the doctors who have seen her claim she is vegetative.  There are plenty who claim she is not vegetative. 

And, yes once again the government has managed to manipulate me using a web of lies and false information in conjunction with subliminal messaging (complete sarcasm, what a load of BS). 

Muscle memory and breathing patterns?  Are you serious?  It must be the hugest coincidence in the world if those breathing patterns and muscle memories can come together to form relavent responses when certain things are said.  I doubt it.

Brett Favre gets sacked again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badsmitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2005 at 3:30pm

Originally posted by Knight of Fire Knight of Fire wrote:

ok but at the same time, the judges in florida have no right to even tell Govener Jeb Bush to buzz off, they can't do so to also congress and the president. It is written in the LAW

also the court has said that the husband can remove the feeding tube, however maybe the husband might want to read the fine print, He can not with hold food or water from her. which from the family seeing if its possible, Terri can eat normaly and drink water with little to no problem.......

Short of mobilizing the National Guard, like Jon Gibson of FOX News has suggested, the court has effectively told Jeb to buzz off.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackDeath7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2005 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by Knight of Fire Knight of Fire wrote:

Thats your opinion. if you did that, and you don't mind it at all, then fine thats your decision.

But with Terri, its unconfirmed if she said that, its also against her religion and her known atitude, and it turns out that the husband has flipflopped, in 1992 he was awarded 1,000,000 dollers in insurence money for the care of his wife, stating he would care for her untill she died from a natural death of old age or the like

he now says he wants her dead... thats definetly a change from what he said in 92

Well, practically every judge in Florida has looked at this by now, as well as a variety of Federal judges.  They presumably see more evidence than you or I.  They all agree that this is what Teri wanted.

Shouldn't we at some point trust our judiciary, or at least the people with the most information, to make these decisions?  This is what they do, after all.  This is exactly the type of thing we as a society have entrusted in them.

It is a bit hypocritical of us to rely on the courts when it suits us but reject the courts when we don't like their decisions.



I am just asking this out of curiosity Clark.  Does that mean you don't think we should have a system of appeals in our judiciary system?

Brett Favre gets sacked again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Knight of Fire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2005 at 3:32pm
To badsmitty: but they can't its written down in the law books buddy.......

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badsmitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2005 at 3:33pm

Originally posted by Knight of Fire Knight of Fire wrote:

ok but at the same time, the judges in florida have no right to even tell Govener Jeb Bush to buzz off, they can't do so to also congress and the president. It is written in the LAW

also the court has said that the husband can remove the feeding tube, however maybe the husband might want to read the fine print, He can not with hold food or water from her. which from the family seeing if its possible, Terri can eat normaly and drink water with little to no problem.......

EDIT: badsmitty In your post you wrote this and I quote

"Ooh a pro-life war president supporter named knight of fire. I gotta lay off Zesty's dope. The world is so confusing."


in that first sentence you are personally attacking me buddy. So what if I supported Bush, who I supported in the elections DOESN'T MEAN CRAP IN THIS TOPIC!

What's the attack?  Are you, or are you not, a pro-life war president supporter named knight of fire?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2005 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by cnn.com cnn.com wrote:


The father of Terri Schiavo, the severely brain-damaged woman whose feeding tube was removed a week ago, said today his daughter is "down to her last hours." Bob Schindler said, "Terri is weakening. ... Something has to be done, and has to be done quick."



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2005 at 3:52pm

Originally posted by Knight of Fire Knight of Fire wrote:

ok but at the same time, the judges in florida have no right to even tell Govener Jeb Bush to buzz off, they can't do so to also congress and the president. It is written in the LAW

You are 100% wrong.

It is Jeb and Congress who have no right to try to override the courts. 

The courts are enforcing Florida law, the way it was passed by the Florida legislature.  The legislature cannot now change its mind and say "that's not what we meant" - they can change the law if they want, but until they change it, the law is the law, and it is the court's job to enforce it.  Jeb Bush has absolutely no business sticking his nose in this AT ALL.

Congress has even less right to get involved - this is a matter of state law, and has nothing to do with the federal government.  Congress' involvement in this process was an abomination.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badsmitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2005 at 3:56pm

Originally posted by Knight of Fire Knight of Fire wrote:

To badsmitty: but they can't its written down in the law books buddy.......

Now buddy, if it was in there, I'm sure that those judges would have seen it at least once during the 23 times they've had it brought before them.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2005 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by BlackDeath7 BlackDeath7 wrote:

Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

It is a bit hypocritical of us to rely on the courts when it suits us but reject the courts when we don't like their decisions.



I am just asking this out of curiosity Clark.  Does that mean you don't think we should have a system of appeals in our judiciary system?

Not at all.  The appellate courts are part of the system. 

Let me restate my point:  It is hypocritical of us to rely on the judicial system when we like the result, but to try to override the judicial system when we don't like the results.

I certainly support Teri's parents' right to appeal all the way through the Florida courts.  That is what those courts are for.  What I don't approve of are the attempts by Congress, Jeb Bush and the Florida legislature to essentially change the rules midstream.

We have rules for this.  You can change the rules if you don't like the rules.  You can NOT change the rules because you don't like a particular outcome.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2005 at 4:02pm

Clark is right, it's very hypocritical.

This is such a huge deal...yet executions stay legal.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goodsmitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2005 at 8:27pm
Originally posted by Badsmitty Badsmitty wrote:

Originally posted by Knight of Fire Knight of Fire wrote:

ok but at the same time, the judges in florida have no right to even tell Govener Jeb Bush to buzz off, they can't do so to also congress and the president. It is written in the LAW

also the court has said that the husband can remove the feeding tube, however maybe the husband might want to read the fine print, He can not with hold food or water from her. which from the family seeing if its possible, Terri can eat normaly and drink water with little to no problem.......

Short of mobilizing the National Guard, like Jon Gibson of FOX News has suggested, the court has effectively told Jeb to buzz off.

 
I am sure that John Gibson will be leading the way with his manicured hands and silky smooth projector screen forehead. He is hawd too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goodsmitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2005 at 8:31pm
Originally posted by Knight of Fire Knight of Fire wrote:

Originally posted by Badsmitty Badsmitty wrote:

Originally posted by Knight of Fire Knight of Fire wrote:

Originally posted by AdmiralSenn AdmiralSenn wrote:

Originally posted by goodsmitty goodsmitty wrote:


I saw today that the conservative Christians are threatening to vote the GOP out of office in the next election if they don't keep Terri alive. I guess the religious right didn't read the fine print in their contract with the devil...


What the flying blue <insert curse word here>? What is your problem?
same here. guess what buddy im a catholic. you got a problem that i supported bush? or do just hate us catholics because we are pro life.


Ooh a pro-life war president supporter named knight of fire.  I gotta lay off Zesty's dope.  The world is so confusing.

So your just going to turn this into a personal attack against anyone against your views? Im stopping right there so I don't go into flamming you.


This topic is getting outa hand.


but end in end I stick to my opinions, terri should live.......


EDIT: to good smittys: my bad thought you were making a attack against my religion. didn't know......sorry
 
Understandable. I too am a Christian (struggling with it right now), and I have a hard time with the popular movement that cries about pulling out a woman's feeding tube who didn't want it in the first place, cries about abortion, but cheer in the office each time a bomb lands in Baghdad.
 
When it becomes evident that the goals of the GOP are not the same as the popular Christian movement, it is going to get ugly. I will be eating popcorn.
"Reading this thread, I'm sad to say that the only difference between the average American and the average Taliban is economic status."
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