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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2005 at 4:10pm

You got a strike.

Clark and Dune > You


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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2005 at 4:13pm

Ok, so I reread my post, and it came out a bit harsh.  That was not my intent.

RPI is a good school, and you should be proud to be there.  But your buddy didn't "take your spot" at MIT - you were an extreme long shot to go there in the first place.

Schools like Harvard, Yale, and MIT could fill their classes with valedictorians with perfect SAT scores.  They choose not to, for diversity reasons (and not just ethnic diversity).  They might admit the guy who wrote his application with a crayon, or the guy that did the Paris-Dakkar, even though their grades weren't that great.  Or they might take the guy from Utah, because nobody else from Utah applied.

In your case, your extra-curriculars may actually have counted against you.  Maybe they had filled up on choir singers, and were looking for some more football players.  Maybe your essay sucked (if you did one).  I don't know, and neither do you.  Maybe your interview went poorly and the interviewer lied to you (sometimes not interviewing is a good idea).  Who knows.  But seriously - you were a long shot to get in.

As to your friend - it is probable that his race counted in his favor, but extremely unlikely that this was the sole deciding factor.  Maybe his recommendations were particularly stellar, or his essay was great.   I don't know, but I can promise you that MIT doesn't take black people with low GPAs just because they are black.  Simple reason:  They don't have to - they get plenty of applications from black people with good GPAs.  Something about your buddy tickled the admission people's fancy, and we will probably never know what it was.



Edited by Clark Kent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2005 at 4:19pm

Originally posted by MattyJ MattyJ wrote:

Does anyone else think its a bit unusual for him to conviniently find a number of engineers who don't like RPI? Yes, RPI ain't no MIT. If it was, I wouldn't have been as pissed. But it sounds more like you either A) made up the comments B) found people that went to MIT or C) found people rejected by RPI

I talked to the first three engineers I could think of.  One went to Wisconsin, two went to CalTech.

Quote And you don't know as much about college admissions as you think you do. However, by saying that you do, you are trying to make yourself the authority. What school do you recruit for? Huh?

I am not trying to make myself the authority.  I am trying to say that NEITHER of us know what happened.  I don't know either.

My qualifications in this area are sufficient.  Particularly as relates to hyper-selective schools and professional positions.

Quote I don't care if you think other schools rejected me. I know they didn't.

And I don't disbelieve you.  But if you didn't apply to schools between RPI and MIT, then surely you must have known that you were a long shot for MIT.  This could not have been a surprise to you.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2005 at 4:25pm
I wish ppl would confuse my age on the internet.

/me thinks of all the young ladies he could legally get with.

CalTech Rocks. If I was more motivated, I would apply...

Edited by Hades

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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2005 at 4:26pm

^^^^^^   I don't think that's legal, no matter what age you are, Hades...

 

:)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hashi2008 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2005 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by hashi2008 hashi2008 wrote:

 You my friend, are an idiot.  Black people get the same that whites get or better.  Coming from experience (which I can assume you have none of because of the way you approach the problem) many black people don't get into college, don't get good grades, don't get good jobs, and generaly do worse in life because they don't want to.  All of the black people at my school that will end up not going to college, going to Grambling State University (all black school near my hometown), or get worse jobs than me are either special ed (very few) or just don't feel like doing the work because thier parents never taught them to do their homework or study.  I have to go, I'll finish this later.

And there, in a nutshell, is a very compelling argument for why affirmative action is still very much needed today.

Thank you.

 

Wow, that was so stereotypical and unbelievably ignorant. Clark is right, this type of idiotic belief system is exactly why we still need AA today.

  How is that?  It is not just my belief, it is a fact at the high school I go to.  There are smart black kids, dumb black kids, and slackers.  The same goes for the whites, except the the slacker numbers are a bit smaller in nmbers.  And as for the "diversity makes a better environment" crap, I can learn better in one of my honors class full of smarties than in a class with a few cut-ups.

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Hades View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2005 at 8:05pm
Bet you most likely wont learn how to boost a car from the honor students. Education is life is not just about book smarts...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WGP guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2005 at 10:17pm
Im planning on applying to 3 colleges (all within the Raleigh-Durham area, 3 well known universities at that).  One I am 90% sure I won't get in.  The other 2 I have a chance.  If all else fails, Air Force Academy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2005 at 10:53pm

Air Force is your fallback?  That's a pretty good fallback.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2005 at 10:58pm
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Bet you most likely wont learn how to boost a car from the honor students. Education is life is not just about book smarts...


Wooooo....hooooo. Why is that relavent? Just because i dont know how to properly prepare a sandwich in qualla lumpur does not mean im not living life, or educated or whatever you were trying to say. But boosting a car isnt difficult.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2005 at 11:05pm
It is relavant because, you learn things from others in college, that you cant learn in books. One of those important things in life that you learn is diversity and to get along with others different than you.

Hence the mix of students that are accepted. What can you learn about other cultures if they are all caisasian 4.0 valedictorians?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2005 at 11:13pm
Who cares if they are 4.0 caucasions. That is racist haha. But why cant they be 4.0 blacks, caucasions and all that. Darn, all thats saying is blacks cant get good grades and cant do it on their own.. When you need legislation to get into a good school that is saying something.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2005 at 11:16pm
What are you talking about?!?

I didnt say what you said I said.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2005 at 11:18pm
Yes you did. You said.. "What can you learn about other cultures if they are all caisasian 4.0 valedictorians?"- Hades

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2005 at 11:33pm
Right. That isnt racist. If all the students come from a similar backgrounds and upbringing, then they arent going to learn as much about the other cultures that exist in the world, since there will be no other culture represented, the ability to learn "outside" the box is limited.

Let me rephrase.. "A smaller amount of first hand knowlege can be learned about non-European traditions, cultures, and background if the only students that are accepted into a particular college are students that are all caisasian, 4.0 valedictorians."

The reason I used cacasions is to show an example. Some people here think that only the top students should get in.

I dont agree that colleges should only accept the highest test scores and GPAs. That is a bunch of hogwash that teachers tell students to get them to do their homework...

Edited by Hades

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2005 at 11:37pm

You guys are talking past each other...

What Hades is saying is that having a diverse student population improves the education for everybody.  It doesn't improve the math class, but it does improve the informal culture/life class that happens before and after math class.

Therefore, his point is that a school has a legitimate interest in having a diverse student population, for the benefit of all.

This is the motivation for giving preference to students from under-represented states, for instance.  Nobody is saying that people in Iowa are disadvantaged, but there aren't many folks from Iowa applying to the University of New Hampshire, so UNH will tend to favor those Iowans that do apply.  This improves their student body by increasing diversity.  The same theory applies to ethnic diversity.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2005 at 11:45pm
Then race shouldnt be an issue. Net worth should be considered and where they are from if that was the true intent of AA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2005 at 9:56am

That is A purpose of AA, not the only purpose.

But even so I disagree that race isn't a diversity issue.  Anybody who lives in the US knows that race is a huge issue for the entire country.   It is a very divisive issue, as evidenced by this thread.  Further, most Americans spend most of their lives surrounded overwhelmingly by people of their own color and their own culture.  If diversity is a goal, I don't see how (in the US) race could ever be left out of it.  It would certainly be as important as geography, IMO.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zesty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2005 at 10:16am
I agree with basically everybody, but let me say why I am annoyed in general.

I am white. I am part Italian, Irish, and Scottish. I am a mixed bag, but am considered white or caucasian nonetheless.

I live in a town called Gonzales...less than 10,000 people populate it. 99% of whom are Mexican.

So, I have NOT lived my life with people of my own color or race....I have lived as a white man in a Hispanic society.

As many times as it sucked sticking out like a sore thumb, I'm sure it has helped me as many times as it has hurt.

Instead of living a life where I had a false sense of security due to being with people of my own race, I always felt different and alone.

It sounds kinda bad, but I think it's made me a much better person who sees all angles of a problem rather than your normal person who sees just good and bad, no middleground.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2005 at 10:21am

I don't think anybody would dispute, Zesty, that affirmative action is - at best - a very blunt instrument.  Clearly there are misfires.  Some of the wrong people benefit, some of the right people don't benefit.

That's the (or a) sucky part of public policy.

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