Tippmann Pneumatics Inc. Homepage
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

No death penalty for juveniles

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2345>
Author
Curlyman666 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 05 January 2005
Location: Antarctica
Status: Offline
Points: 357
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Curlyman666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2005 at 9:20pm

Quote im with u one that bro. suposing sum 14 yr old whips out a mac10 and blows away his entire skool save for a few ppl who saw it all and escaped with only a few minor injuries. they all agree on the same story, this kid just killed 100+ people and they dont put him to death? bad decision in my opinion
i hope that worked lol

in an extreme case like that i doubt the normal rules

and as someone said in another thread like this,serial killers and something else i cant pronounce have a mental illness that cant be fixed and therefore the only safe way to deal with them is to ensure that they can never be let into society again,so you have to kill them basically because they could escape or somehow get parole or something

signature
Back to Top
Hades View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 2003
Location: Virgin Islands
Status: Offline
Points: 12983
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2005 at 9:25pm
Dune: I am still stuck in the middle as to what I feel about it.

Back to Top
DBibeau855 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
IIIIIMMMMM BAAACCCKKK

Joined: 26 November 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 11662
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2005 at 9:29pm
I think it really depends. Im somewhat torn on the issue. I dont know wich is better. Lettin them rot. Or killing them. I think, if they pose a threat to other inmates. They should be executed. But if not. They can rot in jail.
Back to Top
Variable View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 May 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 544
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Variable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2005 at 10:14pm
If thats the case then why don't we just execute half of our inmates and be done with it?  What you said is too arbitrary to be put into legal action.
Back to Top
sheriffhuck511 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 December 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 157
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sheriffhuck511 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2005 at 11:10pm
Killing for the sake of killing is wrong, even for the government.

Executing to protect society as a whole and innocent in particular is a dirty job and heavy burden that must fall upon someone's shoulders to be carried out. I'm glad they aren't upon mine, to decide when someone else's life isnt worth saving for the greater good.

Every night I pray for those in leadership because whether they know it or not and whether they accept it or not they all fall under GOD's Will. I pray these people make the correct decisions so that the innocent may not suffer more than they already have to.

Huck
My set up:
98c with flatline, x-chamber, e-bolt, car stock, remote, Crossfire .68/4500, and Empire Reloader B
"I'm gonna barbecue you in molasses!" - Sheriff Buford T. Justice
Back to Top
Mack View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Has no impulse! control

Joined: 13 January 2004
Location: 2nd Circle
Status: Offline
Points: 9819
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2005 at 11:37pm
Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

I definitely understand, especially from previous posts.

The death penalty takes forever for a reason, but it still doesn't make it right. It's not a deterrent, has killed and imprisoned innocent people, and is just plain murder of a society's citizens.

The death penalty is "not a deterrent"....hmmm.....

  • I've heard of criminals on probation committing more crimes
  • I've heard of criminals who have received parole committing more crimes
  • I've even heard of criminals who "paid their debt to society" committing more crimes
  • I've never heard of anyone who was executed for their crimes going out and committing more crimes.
Back to Top
_Madman_ View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 February 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 30
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _Madman_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2005 at 12:04am

IMO, as it stands, the sheriff is right.  Now I fully support the death penalty, but the extreme circumstances that it take to get there as well as the twenty years of appeals that criminals go through to get there is ridiculous.

To be an active deterrant punishments need to be severe, common, and swift.  For theft, petty or whatever flog them, if they are a juvenile, flog the parents too, teach them some responsibility.  For rape, premeditated murder, let the buggers have one appeal, then let them hang.  Once the penalties become enforced people will think about their actions before they commit them. 

10 hours of community service is not a deterant to theft, and 10 years in jail is not a deterant to murder.

A-5
14" Stiffi
Tapco CAR Stock
Shocktech A-5 Drop
Maddman Spring Kit
R-5 Stealth Hopper
A5-A2 Front Grip
Palmer Stab
E-Grip
Lapco Double Trigger
HPA
- and a license to kick butt
Back to Top
AdmiralSenn View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 07 July 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2683
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AdmiralSenn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2005 at 1:20am
I'm also in the middle on it. The Bible does say to kill a murderer, but it doesn't say 'a convicted murderer', it says a murderer. Meaning that you have to KNOW the person did it, and according to another passage, you need at least two witnesses to prove it. So the death penalty, if it's kept, should only be for those who match these criteria.

The problem is when you have, say, a black man accused of killing a white man, and all witnesses are extremely racist whites? Can you convict someone in that situation when it's very likely that the witnesses are lying?

I'd also like to point out that the Bible says a 'man' who commits murder. I'd interpret that as meaning that you could only punish someone who is defined by society as being of legal adult age (I think in that case it was 13, but ours is 18).

In either case, I think they are too lenient on most prisoners.

I think that if we have people who are definitively convicted and/or someone who confesses but is still on Death Row, we should allow them to volunteer for medical and other tests. End animal testing, no death penalty, and they serve a purpose to society, but only if they want to.

Plus, if you kill them there's no opportunity to proselytize .

I don't know. It's a real mess. Again, assuming I ever get around to it, I'll add this in my super-religion topic.
Is God real? You'll find out when you die.

Okay, I don't have a clever signature zinger. So sue me.
Back to Top
Dune View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
<placeholder>

Joined: 05 February 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 4347
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2005 at 1:32am
Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

I definitely understand, especially from previous posts.

The death penalty takes forever for a reason, but it still doesn't make it right. It's not a deterrent, has killed and imprisoned innocent people, and is just plain murder of a society's citizens.

The death penalty is "not a deterrent"....hmmm.....

  • I've heard of criminals on probation committing more crimes
  • I've heard of criminals who have received parole committing more crimes
  • I've even heard of criminals who "paid their debt to society" committing more crimes
  • I've never heard of anyone who was executed for their crimes going out and committing more crimes.

You obviously don't know the term "generalized deterrent" which does not apply to the criminal. Also, as to sherrif saying it is rarely used,  you have to understand the circumstances in which one can be put to death. In that case, those committing capital offenses are more often put on death row.

Hades. I understand your middle of the road ideals. I was once very pro-death penalty until I started studying and actually witnessed an execution. My ideals have changed the closer I get to what it's like on both ends of the law.

Back to Top
ScarFace22 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Guested. Prejudice crap.

Joined: 29 August 2004
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 1760
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ScarFace22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2005 at 8:33am
I think the whole thing is a joke. As said on the first page a person who is 14,15,or 16 years old knows what they are doing. If they commit murder they should be able to be killed. Why do I feel like that..for a few reasons one being a murder here in the Philadelphia area. In a town called FishTown PA a 16 year old boy was killed by a two 16 year olds and a 15 year old. The story is that they pre planned to rob him and kill him...to kill him was always in the plan remeber that. They took him into the woods and the three boys beat the kid to death with a rock a golf club and something else. They beat him so bad that the kids dad couldn't even identify him. IMO somone like that is better off dead then alive and if anyone needs to be electracuted it should be him. This story was not just a murder story but an act of inhumanity. I think its a joke that they say "They can't kill them because its against the constitution of cruel and unjust punishment. What about that kid who was murdered. That wasn't cruel and unjust? The whole thing is so stupid. Im getting sick of these retarted liberals and there "constitional BS" If the terroist need to blow something up it should be the Supreme Court..they'd be doing everyone a favor.

Check my thread in the Great guns thread for Timmy tech help or PM me
Back to Top
reclusivetorrid View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar
Look at me, I came out of my hole!

Joined: 12 June 2002
Location: Austria
Status: Offline
Points: 2296
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reclusivetorrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2005 at 9:29am
Wow that all took a while to wade through...

The death penalty is a very confusing subject when you really think about it.

There is a dark side to the world, very dark. Where people take pleasure in the ritualistic death and misery of others.

These people should be destroyed, not out of malice (on my part) but out of a desire for self preservation.

The liberal agendas, specifically taught in our current education system and by our wonderful media. Disreguard ideas of morality. They want to throw out the ten commandments from our court houses. How do we define what is right and wrong if law is removed? The truth is liberals don't want right and wrong defined, this hampers thier desire to do anything they want.

Certain things are wrong until they want to do it. Case in point is this whole "hate George Bush" movement. I've actually heard liberals say that they want to kill him. These don't sound like peaceful people to me. These don't sound like wonderfully compassionate people.

moving on...

The death penalty is seriouse, it is a very grim sentence that should never be given lightly. In the case of juvies I would surmise that the death penalty would be a service to them, apart from life imprisonment. Bad things happen in prisons...though alot of liberals would probably welcome a good buggering.


Just my opinion...I'm also having a bad day.

This forum needs some realy people in it again.
I hope sheriffhuck511 sticks around for a while...

Later

Edited by reclusivetorrid
Back to Top
sheriffhuck511 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 December 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 157
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sheriffhuck511 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2005 at 10:05am
Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:


I definitely understand, especially from previous posts.


The death penalty takes forever for a reason, but it still doesn't make it right. It's not a deterrent, has killed and imprisoned innocent people, and is just plain murder of a society's citizens.



The death penalty is "not a deterrent"....hmmm.....



  • I've heard of criminals on probation committing more crimes
  • I've heard of criminals who have received parole committing more crimes
  • I've even heard of criminals who "paid their debt to society" committing more crimes
  • I've never heard of anyone who was executed for their crimes going out and committing more crimes.


You obviously don't know the term "generalized deterrent" which does not apply to the criminal. Also, as to sherrif saying it is rarely used,  you have to understand the circumstances in which one can be put to death. In that case, those committing capital offenses are more often put on death row.


Hades. I understand your middle of the road ideals. I was once very pro-death penalty until I started studying and actually witnessed an execution. My ideals have changed the closer I get to what it's like on both ends of the law.



Again you are correct Dune but in a fairly general way. More people committed for capital crimes are executed because you have to committ a capital crime before people starting considering death. But as I stated the numbers show that LESS THAN 1% of convicted murders go on death row and that doesn't factor in the number of people who get their sentences commuted during the appeals process.

Im sure that the death penalty does stand to have effect as deterrent. Most people get mad at many people everyday for cutting them off in traffic and such. People become furious when friends hurt them, or lovers cheat but you don't kill these people in this circumstance because for most of us this is morally wrong. But there are more than a few of society that are morally corrupt and they dont do it because of the penalties imposed if they do. They dont want to die or go to jail so they dont commit the crime, to these people death is in fact a major deterrant.

Again I dont support the death penalty for heat of passion crimes such as murdering your wife because she was cheating on you. Yes that is wrong and yes you should spend along time in prison but you are not a threat to society or even other prisoners. Once released you may return to life healthy and able to move on with life. But sociopaths are admittedly uuncureable at this point in time. They think they are doing right and will continue to do so because we have no cure for them outside of a full frontal labodomy (spelling is wrong, but the front lobe of your brain that controls thoughts and desires) or keep them drugged to the hilt. But the labodomy is cruel and unusual IMO, I would rather die then spend the rest of life with the thought process of a carrot. Drugging them is not safe because they can stop taking it or what not, remember sociopaths are usually highly intelligent and are excellent problems solvers. As long as they remain alive they are a threat to society and everyone in it.

Huck
My set up:
98c with flatline, x-chamber, e-bolt, car stock, remote, Crossfire .68/4500, and Empire Reloader B
"I'm gonna barbecue you in molasses!" - Sheriff Buford T. Justice
Back to Top
Mack View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Has no impulse! control

Joined: 13 January 2004
Location: 2nd Circle
Status: Offline
Points: 9819
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2005 at 10:26am
Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

I definitely understand, especially from previous posts.

The death penalty takes forever for a reason, but it still doesn't make it right. It's not a deterrent, has killed and imprisoned innocent people, and is just plain murder of a society's citizens.

The death penalty is "not a deterrent"....hmmm.....

  • I've heard of criminals on probation committing more crimes
  • I've heard of criminals who have received parole committing more crimes
  • I've even heard of criminals who "paid their debt to society" committing more crimes
  • I've never heard of anyone who was executed for their crimes going out and committing more crimes.

You obviously don't know the term "generalized deterrent" which does not apply to the criminal. Also, as to sherrif saying it is rarely used,  you have to understand the circumstances in which one can be put to death. In that case, those committing capital offenses are more often put on death row.

Hades. I understand your middle of the road ideals. I was once very pro-death penalty until I started studying and actually witnessed an execution. My ideals have changed the closer I get to what it's like on both ends of the law.

Actually, I have.  I just don't care about a generalized deterrent.  What I care about is having threats to society permanently removed.  The death penalty is so weakened by excessive numbers of appeals, and in some cases appeals that are so ridiculous that it will never be a deterrent unless the system changes.  It can still be effective in removing those whose own actions indicate they can never be a productive member of society, but are actually quite the opposite.  A few random thoughts:

  • Criminal convictions have been overturned because of evidence being excluded for reasons as petty as a misspelling on a search warrant.  The theory behind this is that overturning the conviction will protect the rights of our citizens from over zealous law enforcement by punishing the police for mistakes.  I see this liberal viewpoint as essentially saying it is okay for murderers/rapists/thieves to go free, but it is not okay for the police to make a mistake.  In other words individual freedoms take precident over the safety/security of society as a whole.
  • A mainstay of the entire liberal agenda is a lack of personal responsibility.  Thieves do not steal, they just have a different view of personal property rights.  Mass murderers are not evil, they were just raised wrong.  Push this agenda far enough and no one will be safe because everyone will be able to do as they want with no worry of being held responsible. 
  • I wonder how the anti-death-penalty-no-matter-what folks would feel if by some miracle all of the Sept 11 planners ended up in US custody.  I can see it now; "We can't punish them, they were just practicing their religious freedoms.  Any way it's our own fault, we asked for it.  Ward Churchill was right, all the victims were little Eichmans."
  • This probably isn't politically correct to say, but it needs to be said.  Wake up people, their is evil in the world.  Denying it, renaming it, or excusing it will not make it go away.  It needs to be removed.  Yes, putting those convicted of heinious crimes in jail does remove the threat to society, but their is always the risk of escape or parole.  Furthermore, I do not see why they should be supported for the rest of their lives by the very civilized society that they chose not to be members of through their own actions.  I can think of better things for my tax dollars to go to.
Back to Top
Dune View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
<placeholder>

Joined: 05 February 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 4347
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2005 at 11:07am

Just because there is an evil doesn't mean YOU have the right to take that person's life. No matter what the crime, no one and definitely no government should have the divine right to take that person's life away.

Once again, you act like the exclusionary rule allows for rapists and murderers to get back on the streets. Highly untrue, mainly for the fact that the exclusionary rule is rarely ever used, and in cases where evidence is excluded, the defendant is almost always convicted. If someone does get let off because of police misconduct, it is our fault, not theirs.

Once again, I'll repeat this for the people in the back row. The death penalty IS NOT A DETERRENT. There is no justifiable evidence to support that it is, and no, since people hardly know what can be used as a capital offense (clearly being shown by some people on the forum), people do not think about the death penalty first.

Scarface, you have simply proved my point that you think you have the ability to make the choice on who stays and who goes. I wonder, did your god talk to you and tell you that it's your responsibility? I doubt, however you do seem to want to blow up a conservative Supreme Court. If I would have said to take the bomb elsewhere...maybe the Whitehouse, I would have been jumped immediately. The death penalty is murder.

Back to Top
ScarFace22 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Guested. Prejudice crap.

Joined: 29 August 2004
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 1760
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ScarFace22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2005 at 11:42am

conserative Supreme court....pff hahah that should get "the most retarted comment of 2005 award." The supreme court is so liberal its not funny. They take no morals into consideration only the "onstutional right" that why there's still abortion.

LIBERALS SUCK



Edited by ScarFace22

Check my thread in the Great guns thread for Timmy tech help or PM me
Back to Top
Hades View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 2003
Location: Virgin Islands
Status: Offline
Points: 12983
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2005 at 12:20pm
Dune is correct. The death penality is not a deterant.

A criminal does before committing a crime, stop to think, "Wait. I am about to commit murder in the first degree. It is possible if I commit this crime I could be put to death for committing this crime. I had better not do it." It doesnt work that way.

Back to Top
cripple View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 September 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cripple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2005 at 1:26pm

I have civil criminal law 2nd hour and that was a big discussion. I believe that it depends on the type of murder if kids should get death penalty

Back to Top
Dune View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
<placeholder>

Joined: 05 February 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 4347
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2005 at 2:22pm
I hate to tell you Scarface, but the Supreme Court, at least this one, is a conservative court. You might want to make a speach ready for your "most idiotic forumer award" because I am right.
Back to Top
St. Jimmy View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 February 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 346
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote St. Jimmy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2005 at 2:50pm

^Yes you are.

Back to Top
WGP guy View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar
Quoted F and S bomb.

Joined: 14 August 2004
Location: Lao People’s Dem. Rep.
Status: Online
Points: 1327
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WGP guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2005 at 3:18pm
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2345>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.03

This page was generated in 0.172 seconds.