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Your Opinion on U.S. Foreign Policy

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Poll Question: Well?
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.Ryan View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 February 2005 at 7:48am
  My question to you is do you like the way U.S. Foreign Policy is going? I bring this up as kind of a late after thought of the inaugural address in which, rather he wants to admit it or not, Bush pretty much outlined a new trend in our foreign policy in which we would be the worlds new harbinger of freedom thoughout the world.

   Personally, I don't believe we should be spending American Blood and Treasure in this manner. While I do see the benefits in having more western-friendly democratic states around the world, especially in the middle east, I disagree because A) The Mideast has and always will have a different, and inherantly opposite, culture as the west does. It's that simple. People who kid themselves and think that one day the Mideast will be like Europe or North America need to stop kidding themselves. Therefore, I don't believe that democracies, especially ones set up by foreign western powers will ever be able to survive over there no matter how many trillions in gold and how many of our young men we spend on the effort. Also (B) why should it be our job to spread freedom around the world? Why should we risk our economy and our young people's lives to bring freedom to a culture that inherently hates us anyway? Personally, I think if a nation like Iran wants freedom they should get up and do somethin about it. Same with pre-war Iraq. If they were being oppressed and held down under this murderous regiem and wanted out so bad why didn't they do something about it? Why do we have to do it for them? We did it ourselves(with some help from the French at the end), France did it themselves, England did it theirselves, and the same with most free states in the world today so why can't these people?  Personally, I believe in the saying "The Gods are kind to men of action" meaning that you should get up and do what needs to be done instead of wanting it handed to you by some higher power or random third party.

    Anyway, those are just my opinions. I'd like to hear yours.


 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WGP guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 8:04am
I don't know anything about it.  But I trust our President (I would have trusted Kerry too).  So I put Like it.
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.Ryan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 8:13am
^shoulda voted #5^

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WGP guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 8:17am
Originally posted by .Ryan .Ryan wrote:

^shoulda voted #5^


Oops, I read it wrong.  I thought it said "I dislike it, just as all good Americans should.   This post was about to say (if thats what #5 had said):  O yea, any good american would disagree with the President.

But since i misread it...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 9:16am
That's a bit too complicated of a question...   care to focus on a particular portion of US foreign policy?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ihaveanitch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 9:28am

1. Must change any foods in america with names with forign countries names on em. Liberty fries will be supersized throughout the land.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badsmitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 9:36am
A good thread, .Ryan.  P.S. want to try out some airsoft this summer?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bolt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 9:40am
It sucks because Bush. If Kerry did it the same way, it wouldn't suck.
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.Ryan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 10:21am
Bolt: Yes it would. I don't play the party game.


Smitty: Sounds good dude, I'll get in touch.

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.Ryan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 11:30am
I can't believe no one has yelled at me for being selfish or something yet.....opinions? Anyone?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 12:57pm
Well, foreign policy is a very complicated thing. There are many aspects that can be adressed. I think certain things can be handeled better. Like for instance bungles like US troops raising an american flag in Iraq, things like this send the wrong message. We were over throwing a government for the people. So it would be the last thing to rais our flag. Small things like that i think could have been handeled better. I think we would not be stupid to handel things with kit gloves from now on. But be forceful when needed. But im not a politician nor am i a strategist, just some things i think about from time to time.
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.Ryan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 9:03pm
Yeah, that was definately a oppsy. That along with underfunding, underequiping, and undertraining our troops shows another side of my dislike for the Bosh Administration that I'm not really sure fits with foreign policy....it's more just...idiocy....

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phillll227 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phillll227 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 9:22pm
There are some parts of our foreign policy that I agree with, and there are some that I don't.

The war on terrorism is a very important issue to me. Something certainly needs to be done to stop the terrorist murderers and protect US interests and citizens both at home and abroad.

I accept the fact that regardless of our foreign policy there are people in this world that will hate us simply because of our wealth, culture, religion, and freedoms. They will do what they can to kill us, destroy our way of life, and break our resolve to maintain our freedoms.

It seems like our military is the best option to prevent this. By waging war on the terrorists in their own backyard we have taken the fighting out of our streets and into theirs so to speak. Since 9/11 there have been no foreign attacks on our soil.

It is also important that we make it clear that it is not acceptable for a state to harbor terrorism.. We have made clear examples of Afgahnistan and Iraq, and we will continue to do so until we get our message across to these people. Don't get me wrong, I hate war, and I hate hearing of our soldiers dying. I believe that their sacrifice is protecting the civilians of this country. Without our military actions abroad, who knows how many more would be dead in NYC, LA, or Chicago?

I really don't feel like typing any more, so I'll leave you with that.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frozen Balls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 9:25pm
I think too much money is going to foreign countries. I'm not talking about disaster relief. We have tons of domestic issues that need sorting out.


Originally posted by phillll227 phillll227 wrote:



I accept the fact that regardless of our foreign policy there are people in this world that will hate us simply because of our wealth, culture, religion, and freedoms. They will do what they can to kill us, destroy our way of life, and break our resolve to maintain our freedoms.

It seems like our military is the best option to prevent this. By waging war on the terrorists in their own backyard we have taken the fighting out of our streets and into theirs so to speak. Since 9/11 there have been no foreign attacks on our soil.




How many foreign terrorist attacks were there before 9/11 this century? I can only think of 2, and one of those was Pearl Harbor, and that's not even a terrorist attack. How many in our entire history?

I concede that after 9/11, we had to hit back, and hit hard. But now Bush isn't showing any signs of slowing down, and it needs to end because I really don't feel like getting drafted and spending my mid-twenties in some third world hellhole.



Edited by Frozen Balls

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.Ryan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 9:39pm
   I wont start with the war on terror but I will remind you folks, it is now Sunday, Febuary 6th, 2005. The war on terror started on Teusday, September 11th, 2001. We have not destroyed Al-Qaeda and we still have not found Bin Laden. I'm for the war on terror, even though I see it as unwinnable and almost scary(one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter), but it's execution so far has been subpar at best.


   And yeah FB, I agree there are plenty of things that need to be fixed here but that may be for another thread.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phillll227 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 9:50pm
Originally posted by .Ryan .Ryan wrote:

    I wont start with the war on terror but I will remind you
folks, it is now Sunday, Febuary 6th, 2005. The war on terror started
on Teusday, September 11th, 2001. We have not destroyed Al-Qaeda and we
still have not found Bin Laden. I'm for the war on terror, even though
I see it as unwinnable and almost scary(one man's terrorist is
another's freedom fighter), but it's execution so far has been subpar
at best.




The same could have been said in june 1944, 3 and a half years after Japan attacked at Pearl Harbor. I'm not saying that we have done a perfect job, but take a look at the number of terrorist attacks in our country in the last 3 years. We have not completely destroyed Al Quaeda, but most estimates show that we have captured or killed about 2/3 of its leaders, which is definitely a good start.

As for the "winnability" of the war on terror, I agree. We are, however, doing what we can to fight the terrorists. The way I see it is this: for every terrorist killed abroad that is one less person who wants to kill me here. Can we realistically destroy every terrorists, stop every attack, and make enemies into friends? No, but we can disrupt their plans, destroy their ambitions, and break their will to fight.



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phillll227 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phillll227 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 10:01pm
Originally posted by Frozen Balls Frozen Balls wrote:




I concede that after 9/11, we had to hit back, and hit hard. But now
Bush isn't showing any signs of slowing down, and it needs to end
because I really don't feel like getting drafted and spending my
mid-twenties in some third world hellhole.




I don't think that we should slow down. The terrorists certainly wouldn't. If we stop fighting them there, they start fighting us here.

Nobody wants to be drafted. Nobody wants to spend their twenties in some "third world hellhole." In World War II, how many people do you think actually wanted to land on Normandy, or Guadalcanal, or Iwo Jima? How many people wanted cross the 38th in Korea? How many people wanted die in the jungles of Vietnam? And how many people wanted to go fight house to house in Iraq? Noone. But I'm glad they did because if it weren't for the sacrifices of these men and women we would not enjoy the freedoms that we take for granted right now.

Nobody likes war. Nobody likes killing. Sometimes it has to be done to protect everything that we hold dearly. The selfish reason "I don't want to" doesn't cut it because nobody wants to, but it has to be done.

I'm sorry if I sound rude or harsh or anything, I was simply stating the facts.



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.Ryan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2005 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by phillll227 phillll227 wrote:

Originally posted by .Ryan .Ryan wrote:

    I wont start with the war on terror but I will remind you
folks, it is now Sunday, Febuary 6th, 2005. The war on terror started
on Teusday, September 11th, 2001. We have not destroyed Al-Qaeda and we
still have not found Bin Laden. I'm for the war on terror, even though
I see it as unwinnable and almost scary(one man's terrorist is
another's freedom fighter), but it's execution so far has been subpar
at best.




The same could have been said in june 1944, 3 and a half years after Japan attacked at Pearl Harbor. I'm not saying that we have done a perfect job, but take a look at the number of terrorist attacks in our country in the last 3 years. We have not completely destroyed Al Quaeda, but most estimates show that we have captured or killed about 2/3 of its leaders, which is definitely a good start.

As for the "winnability" of the war on terror, I agree. We are, however, doing what we can to fight the terrorists. The way I see it is this: for every terrorist killed abroad that is one less person who wants to kill me here. Can we realistically destroy every terrorists, stop every attack, and make enemies into friends? No, but we can disrupt their plans, destroy their ambitions, and break their will to fight.



Agree with your last paragraph except for the minor detail that we are screwing up on a lot of things that we should not be screwing up on so I don't really see it as "doing everything we can"...but I guess no one is perfect....


As far as the June 1944 and Japan comparison to the WOT, there is a huge difference in destroying an enemy nation and catching a killer and destroying his organization. And besides that, that was only 3 years after the attack. We won in '45, 4 years after the start. It's been almost that long now since 9/11. Also, "we have not completely destroyed Al-Qeada" is a bit of an understatement. It's not like there are just a few memebers hinding in wholes somewhere out there, they are still in operation. They are still killing Americans in Iraq and Afganistan and no doubt planning more for us here at home. And the fact that we haven't had any attacks for the last 3 years doesn't mean we're secure. There are so many holes in the US boarders and other elements of US Homeland security including unchecked containers, spotty shore patrol, and illegal aliens roaming unchecked through major cities that I see it as almost a stroke of luck that we haven't been attacked yet. Not to mention more people around the world hate us now than before 9/11. The fact is that we are half-assing the Wot already and focusing on what is, in my mind, one of THE weakest threats to our national security in the world....well, at least it was before we invaded. Not only are we slacking in the Wot we are almost ignoring other threats around the world. North Korea is the major one that comes to mind right now. We are letting China handle one of the most agressive and beligerant nations in the world whom just happens to have nukes and the capability of getting them not only to all of their neighbors and our interests in the South but to Hawaii and the freaken West Coast. And besides the nukes, because I know you're going to say that they just wouldn't use them because we'd burry them or whatever(that assumes they are thinking logically and that we would have the balls to use ours), they could probably get away with taking back the south right now. We are stuck in 2 wars(and it sounds like we're looking for more targets) in the Mideast and it's debatable rather we could handle another, especially the major kind of war we would have in Korea. On top of that we're pulling troops out of the area every month. Idiocy.


In my mind the way we are acting abroad right now equates to something like this: A guy robs a bank and kills everyone in it. The police know where the guy is staying so they go raid that place, they get some of his friends but he escapes. Not being able to find him the cops need to look like they are doing their jobs(and they may have some other motives) so they go raid a crack house down the street. This raid goes kind of crappy and they are stuck there trying to finish what they started. Meanwhile they have a free criminal who is still breaking the law with his buddies and a guy down the street threatening people with a shotgun(but his neighbor trying to talk to him about it). The cops appearently can't handle the robber and the guy down the street could probably do what he wants because they are still caught up in the crack house. Not to mention the station could stand a little maintainence. But hey, they got those crackheads.....


Edited by .Ryan

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HITMAN 4 HIRE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2005 at 7:56pm
i hate democratic hippie liberals...
Because I can.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WUNgUN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2005 at 8:09pm
I love this thread and that is why I can't "really" respond. As someone else mentioned, there are just too many dimensions to foreign policy (geopolitics), whether its fruit, oil, or nukes. There are college courses dedicated to minute aspects of it, so I can only conclude it will end as it has started, "Bush stinks, Kerry stinks more, and you smell!"
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