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Anti sniper lynch mobers please comment

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    Posted: 05 February 2005 at 11:57pm

Hello comrads.

Every time i see a paintball sniper argument there are always people saying their are no such thing as snipers in paintball. Why. This is the question that is never answered. What characteristics of paintball make it impossible to become "a sniper"?

And if their is no such thing as sniping, then why are accesories such as longer range barrels, scopes, and ghillie suits used in paintball?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrexelSkaPB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 12:03am
I agree 100%, A-5 Command. There is more proof of snipers than there is of no snipers. Just read what I posted in the "Sniping" thread (sorry if this jacks the thread from you, but people need to learn, and I'm not typing or copying all that ). And please, if anyone can come up with credible proof, post it here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote f@ll3n 5nip3r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 12:25am
er.... i dont even wanna get involved and i play speedball so it dont matter to me
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hybrid-sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 12:30am
Speedball player here, too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nigelf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 12:52am
Its not that they dont exist, its that the dont exist as new players think they exist. 

Most people get up in arms when new players want to be the guy that one-shot-one-kills people from a distance with anonimity.  New players usually dont realize that there is no distance advantage.  Except with the flatline.  And with the flatline, there tends to be a precision loss, which makes it more effective for backfield fire suppression tactics rather than sniping (because a sniper is the most precise and accurate mofo around).  So when new guys bust on the scene, wanting to take the glory and be the lone wolf sniper, most seasoned folk jump on them because what they want doesnt exist. 

What DOES exist is what has been discussed in other recent "sniper" threads.  Its more about stealth and ambush tactics than anything else.  But this is not for the new player.  This is seasoned vet stuff.  And even at that, this not for every seasoned vet.  I dont claim to be seasoned, or a vet, but I do not have what it takes to be a paintball sniper. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SebastianBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 12:58am
Ok, do you check windage.
Do you take shots measured in hundreds of meters?
Do you have a bolt action gun built for extreme accuracy?
Can a scope benefit you, or is it just a piece of equipment stuck on your marker that really can do nothing except sit there because you cant shoot far enough for it to do anything, nor is your gun accurate enough to make a difference?
Do you have the math skills a sniper must possess to coordinate his shots?

Now,before you tell me how accurate your A5 flat line double trigger Egrip set to three round burst is, explain to me why most "Paintball snipers" carry pod packs. Because if they are as good as they claim, the really wouldnt need more then the whats available in a ten round tube.
Dont give me the firing from stealth speil either.
I play woodsball. I hide in bushes. I take concealed shots. I wear camo and use surroundings to my advantage.
I am not a paintball sniper.
As a matter of fact, most wooodsball players play with those exact same traits.
They dont consider themselves snipers.
Fact of the matter is, the average military infantry man is trained to move quieter and conserve his shots better then any paintball "Sniper".
Scratch that, there is ONE sniper in paintball.
A few years ago some pro player called out before a game, went to an adjacent wooded area and started shooting people in the backs when the game started from a distance. It took a bit before they realised it and he was banned from playing pro-ball ever again.
He's a paintball cheater, I mean sniper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SebastianBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 1:00am
What you just described is commonly refered to as a pointman or an interdictory rifleman.
Thats not a sniper. Thats every single woodsball player after their second game.
If a person is running through the woods like a maniac and getting his butt shot up, hes a tool.
The guy that shot him isnt a sniper, he's just playing smart.

Originally posted by Nigelf Nigelf wrote:

Its not that they dont exist, its that the dont exist as new players think they exist. Most people get up in arms when new players want to be the guy that
one-shot-one-kills people from a distance with anonimity. New
players usually dont realize that there is no distance advantage.
Except with the flatline. And with the flatline, there tends to
be a precision loss, which makes it more effective for backfield fire
suppression tactics rather than sniping (because a sniper is the most
precise and accurate mofo around). So when new guys bust on the
scene, wanting to take the glory and be the lone wolf sniper, most
seasoned folk jump on them because what they want doesnt exist. What DOES exist is what has been discussed in other recent "sniper"
threads. Its more about stealth and ambush tactics than anything
else. But this is not for the new player. This is seasoned
vet stuff. And even at that, this not for every seasoned
vet. I dont claim to be seasoned, or a vet, but I do not have
what it takes to be a paintball sniper. Nigel

FFKFASOFAA
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kann man uns am Himmel sehn
wir haben Angst und sind allein

Gott weiss ich will kein Engel sein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nigelf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 1:17am
heh, I'd say that any good woodsballer has those traits.  But I have seen some that work within a group as an ambush player.  I could see that position called "sniper," but thats just my opinion. 


Nigel



Originally posted by SebastianBlack SebastianBlack wrote:

What you just described is commonly refered to as a pointman or an interdictory rifleman.
Thats not a sniper. Thats every single woodsball player after their second game.
If a person is running through the woods like a maniac and getting his butt shot up, hes a tool.
The guy that shot him isnt a sniper, he's just playing smart.

Originally posted by Nigelf Nigelf wrote:

Its not that they dont exist, its that the dont exist as new players think they exist. Most people get up in arms when new players want to be the guy that
one-shot-one-kills people from a distance with anonimity. New
players usually dont realize that there is no distance advantage.
Except with the flatline. And with the flatline, there tends to
be a precision loss, which makes it more effective for backfield fire
suppression tactics rather than sniping (because a sniper is the most
precise and accurate mofo around). So when new guys bust on the
scene, wanting to take the glory and be the lone wolf sniper, most
seasoned folk jump on them because what they want doesnt exist. What DOES exist is what has been discussed in other recent "sniper"
threads. Its more about stealth and ambush tactics than anything
else. But this is not for the new player. This is seasoned
vet stuff. And even at that, this not for every seasoned
vet. I dont claim to be seasoned, or a vet, but I do not have
what it takes to be a paintball sniper. Nigel

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 1:50am
Darn it Seb!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ihaveanitch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 9:04am

It all depends on what definition of the "sniper" you take, if you mean actually real life sniping traits, shooting from far far far far away wit site/scope n all, being able to shoot dead on accurate usually gettting the guy wit one shot, then there are no such thing as a paintball sniper. However, there can be a "paintball sniper", one who can hide himself very well so no one will kno where he is when he shoots and that he shoots smart, not revealing himself unessersarly, being accurate, quiet, maybe having good range barrel/gun *flatline* but mostly just being very smart on when and where he shoots.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote barrel tap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 10:35am
Ok firstly: The flatline has fine accuracy, it just loses it at longer ranges due to outside forces on the ball.  That is just common sense (Although the spin helps keep the trajectory slightly better than a typical barrel would at the same range).

Secondly: PB markers arent accurate enough for 1 hit 1 kill.  You need a burst to guarentee a hit usually.

Thirdly: The extent of sniper tactics are sneaking and camoflauge to outflank the enemy and catch them unaware.  Thats about it.

Fourthly: You're probably going to get flamed for not putting this in Thoughts and Opinions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Betterdays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 11:17am
Originally posted by Ihaveanitch Ihaveanitch wrote:

It all depends on what definition of the "sniper" you take...



So true, except that one defintion is just made up. (Ambush and camo doesn't equal sniper, paintball or otherwise)

The only advice I have for anyone who thinks they are a paintball sniper is: play more. Experience will teach you, what you call " paintball sniping" is just a portion of good woodsball tactics. 

Its no accident new players make up the vast majority of the pro-sniper crowd and older players make up the anti-sniper crowd.  Go. Play. Learn. You'll be one of us sooner than you think.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SebastianBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 12:13pm
outflanking an enemy and using camo is the heart and soul of all decent woodsball tactics.
1 shot isnt definite in paintball its just nice.
Lots of woodsplayers do this to not give away their position
Next arguement?


Originally posted by barrel tap barrel tap wrote:

Ok firstly: The flatline has fine accuracy, it just loses it at longer
ranges due to outside forces on the ball. That is just common sense
(Although the spin helps keep the trajectory slightly better than a
typical barrel would at the same range).



Secondly: PB markers arent accurate enough for 1 hit 1 kill. You need a burst to guarentee a hit usually.

Thirdly: The extent of sniper tactics are sneaking and camoflauge to
outflank the enemy and catch them unaware. Thats about it.

Fourthly: You're probably going to get flamed for not putting this in Thoughts and Opinions.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A5 dude15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 12:22pm
being the position of a "sniper" in paintball is simply an excuse for a player cough newbies cough who are afraid to get shot, because they think a paintball feels like a bullet or sumthing i dunno, to hide on the outskirts of the field and hope his teammates think he is doing something good for the team when really the people in the firefight are the only ones helping the team.  what the "sniper" is really doing is hiding away from the firefight and not helping his team to victory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A-5 Command Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 1:38pm

not necesarily^

Wel i think the average paintball idiot could understand that your not going to be able to hit a target hundreds of meters away with a paintball gun, and thats not why people use or should use scopes on their markers. I think scopes should be used more for spoting enemies rather than using it to magnify a target to shoot at.

I agree that real "sniping" is a combonation on good woods ball tactics, but i do see a difference between a reguler player and a "sniper" In woods ball, their are sqads of people who move together and atempt to ambush the enemy or meet together in a head-to-head battle. A "sniper" moves and works alone, and doesn't move around as much as the other players, and more so uses concealment than anything else.

Oh and also thank you all for mature answers.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bolt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 1:47pm
It's because it's not that practical to be a sniper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluemunky42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 1:55pm
u "snipers" are full of snot and manure. the accesories are made so ur more accurate. but remember a paintball is a bullet as stated many times before therfore no one is dead accurate like snipers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SebastianBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 1:56pm
Ok, Wrong.
Snipers work in teams of two, sometimes even three.
A sniper does not work alone.
Plenty of woodsballers hide and work alone, especially in
Capture The Flag.
Next arguement


Originally posted by A-5 Command A-5 Command wrote:

not necesarily^


Wel i think the average paintball idiot could understand that your not going to be able to hit a target hundreds of meters away with a paintball gun, and thats not why people use or should use scopes on their markers. I think scopes should be used more for spoting enemies rather than using it to magnify a target to shoot at.


I agree that real "sniping" is a combonation on good woods ball tactics, but i do see a difference between a reguler player and a "sniper" In woods ball, their are sqads of people who move together and atempt to ambush the enemy or meet together in a head-to-head battle. A "sniper" moves and works alone, and doesn't move around as much as the other players, and more so uses concealment than anything else.


Oh and also thank you all for mature answers.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrexelSkaPB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 1:59pm

Try to move away from woodsball and into scenario and big game types.

I don't know about you guys, but around here at fields like Picasso Lake, On Target, etc. woodsball games are basically a 100 yard by 75 yard field or so, with two teams of about 10-20 people. At the whistle, everybody runs to grab more land and the good bunkers. After 15 minutes of throwing paint and moving around, a team wins after they get the flag or eliminate the other team. It's hard to be a sniper in this envirnoment, you can usually see where the other team starts, and the side boundaries.

But scenarios and big games are a whole different story. You're playing with hundreds of people on several hundred acres, with objectives, missions, etc, and it will last for hours. This is where the sniper plays best. Before a team makes a push towards the enemy base or to capture objectives or rescue teammates behind the lines, it is smart to send out scouts and diversionary attacks. They also work well to disrupt and piss off the opposing team during general movement. Since the playing field is so huge, one single guy can sneak around the bulk of an opponent, and with a radio, can call teammates up and tell them what's going on where they can't see. And the whole one shot one kill doesn't come into play. Move around and lay a lot of paint to distract them and make it seem like more than one guy. This will draw many opponents (maybe up to 20) from the front lines, and their just chasing one guy.

Don't take the word sniper so literally, it's military and real-world meaning need not apply, just like saying pointman and interdictory rifleman. A sniper is a scenario or big game position which is effective at roles including, but not limited to: harassing, scouting, diversion, and ambush set-up.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SebastianBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 2:50pm
Ok, now, once again, what you described is a pointman or a scout. This is not a sniper. Not by any definition

Originally posted by DrexelSkaPB DrexelSkaPB wrote:

Try to move away from woodsball and into scenario and big game types.


I don't know about you guys, but around here at fields like Picasso Lake, On Target, etc. woodsball games are basically a 100 yard by 75 yard field or so, with two teams of about 10-20 people. At the whistle, everybody runs to grab more land and the good bunkers. After 15 minutes of throwing paint and moving around, a team wins after they get the flag or eliminate the other team. It's hard to be a sniper in this envirnoment, you can usually see where the other team starts, and the side boundaries.


But scenarios and big games are a whole different story. You're playing with hundreds of people on several hundred acres, with objectives, missions, etc, and it will last for hours. This is where the sniper plays best. Before a team makes a push towards the enemy base or to capture objectives or rescue teammates behind the lines, it is smart to send out scouts and diversionary attacks. They also work well to disrupt and piss off the opposing team during general movement. Since the playing field is so huge, one single guy can sneak around the bulk of an opponent, and with a radio, can call teammates up and tell them what's going on where they can't see. And the whole one shot one kill doesn't come into play. Move around and lay a lot of paint to distract them and make it seem like more than one guy. This will draw many opponents (maybe up to 20) from the front lines, and their just chasing one guy.


Don't take the word sniper so literally, it's military and real-world meaning need not apply, just like saying pointman and interdictory rifleman. A sniper is a scenario or big game position which is effective at roles including, but not limited to: harassing, scouting, diversion, and ambush set-up.

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Erst wenn die Wolken schlafengehn
kann man uns am Himmel sehn
wir haben Angst und sind allein

Gott weiss ich will kein Engel sein
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