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Abortion

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Poll Question: Do you believe abortion should be allowed??
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
19 [38.78%]
27 [55.10%]
3 [6.12%]
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Tae Kwon Do View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 8:38pm

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

Rape and incest are a moral dilemma. I personally am not in favor of abortion except in purely medical cases where the mother is at risk or there is positive evidense of serious non reverseable birth defects which would seriously effect the childs future quality of life.

In my opinion if the issue must be made, and the choice must be made, the question of choice for rape and incest must be made by the mother, during the first trimester, as early as possible, to ease the physcological effect on the mother, after that the child should come to term and the choice of adoption made available.

I agree with OS.

Somebody mark that.


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phillll227 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phillll227 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:

I agree with OS.


Somebody mark that.



Done

<<<700

Edited by phillll227



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slacker guy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slacker guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 8:51pm
let people do what they want....in my school last year a 16 year
old got pregnant by a 14 yearold and they kept the baby and
this year a 14 year old got pregnant by a 20 year old, which is
some sick stuff and she is keeping it

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tippy_182 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 8:54pm
Originally posted by slacker guy slacker guy wrote:

let people do what they want....in my school last year a 16 year
old got pregnant by a 14 yearold and they kept the baby and
this year a 14 year old got pregnant by a 20 year old, which is
some sick stuff and she is keeping it


Those stories have nothing to do with abortion.

And just because the situation is bad doesn't mean that it isn't killing.

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lester98c View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lester98c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 8:58pm
the persons choice.if im 14 and if i got another 14 year old pregnant i wouldnt want to see them go through the pains of being pregnant they teach u about in health.
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phillll227 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phillll227 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by lester98c lester98c wrote:

the persons choice.if im 14 and if i got another 14 year old pregnant i wouldnt want to see them go through the pains of being pregnant they teach u about in health.


If you didn't want them to go through pain, then why would you risk putting them through the physical pain of childbirth or the emotional pain of an abortion?



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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 9:07pm

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

The moral, medical and ethical decesion on what is considered the "quality of life" is the determining factor. Trained and qualified medical personnel using established medical precident will determine the for lack of better terms "the greater good" of each in determining the resulting "quality of life" of each. If the fetus can not or is not able to survive outside the womb if delievered early and develope to a established medical norm then an abortion of the fetus is medically and ethically sound to protect the life and or health of the mother to a established "quality of life" standard.

Ok.

Applying that standard, I propose that a very good argument that an abortion may be acceptable in EVERY SINGLE PREGNANCY.

First - pregnancy is dangerous.  Don't let anybody kid you.  Some 20% of US deliveries are by C-section, which is major invasive surgery.  Even when it goes well, it makes it very unlikely that the mother will ever be able to have a natural delivery.  Natural delivery has its own hazards - a fairly common "side-effect" of natural delivery are major urinary problems.  These are often permanent.  IOW, some mothers have to wear diapers the rest of their lives.  There are plenty of other medical risks as well.  And we haven't even gotten to the psychological effects.

And, of course, that is in the US, where we have actual doctors.  In Africa, for instance, ONE IN SIXTEEN deliveries results in a dead mother.  That strikes me as an awfully good reason for an abortion.

Second - "quality of life" is not merely a medical issue, but also a social concern.  Simply being pregnant can cause people to lose their jobs, to get kicked out of school, to fail tests, and so forth and so on.  The medical expenses can be crushing.

Everything I mentioned is just pregnancy - if the mother keeps the child, you have another whole army of problems.

Bottom line  - pregnancy and childbirth is no walk in the park.  It can cost some people huge sums of money, and can ruin careers.  It can leave scars, both physical and psychological, and it can kill.

 

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oldsoldier View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 9:20pm
All human activity has a degree of risk assigned to it, from your first breath, to the water you drink, to the food you eat, we make thousands of ethical decesions on our lives everyday. But we can not make nor should we ever make a casual decesion of convienience on the life of another based on our not acting in a responsible way.

When sexual activity by those not knowing,prepared or responsible enough to create a human life, the created life should not be sacrificed on the alter of illresponsibility.

The medical standards of "quality of life" is purely based on the established ethics of, and level of medical standards of the society.
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phillll227 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phillll227 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 9:28pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:


Bottom line - pregnancy and childbirth is no walk in the park. It can cost some people huge sums of money, and can ruin careers. It can leave scars, both physical and psychological, and it can kill.




That's exactly why it is important to be resposible. As OS said, once human life is created it should not be destroyed simply because the creators are not responsible enough to handle it.

Edited by phillll227



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Dune View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 9:54pm
I still do not consider it murder.
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phillll227 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phillll227 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 10:08pm
Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

I still do not consider it murder.


That's your opinion and as I said before we must agree to disagree.

Our discussions, no matter how well constructed and thought out, are unlikely to cause any real "conversion". They do, however, promote deeper thought and critical thinking, as well as a repect for others' opinions, which is good on all accounts.



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98God View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 98God Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 10:39pm
i don't know if th is has been posted but i didn't feel like reading all 7 pages...but there  is a movie called the silent scream which was a  taping of an abortion by an abortion doctor who strongly believed in it...during the coarse of the film when the needle went to kill the fetus it reached out and opened it's mouth  as if screaming..so it is a live person ...therefor i believe it is wrong....
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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 11:01pm
Fish also open their mouths when you kill them...
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phillll227 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phillll227 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 11:02pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Fish also open their mouths when you kill them...


Are you comparing a fish to a fetus?



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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 11:04pm
Nope - simply pointing out that mouth-opening is irrelevant.
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phillll227 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phillll227 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 11:06pm
Ok you had me worried for a second.



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oldsoldier View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 11:20pm
I believe he was refereing to the cognasant act of coordinated movement, reacting to envioramental stimuli, by the fetus prior to the "doctor" inserting the needle into the brain of the innocent and sucking the brain out, just as the fetus "sees" its first and only glimpse of the light and life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B_Wet A-5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 11:30pm
a lot of the ppl here are not hacing sex yet. i being one who am i do not want an unplanned child. so i so support abortions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rockerdoode Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2005 at 11:41pm

HOLY **edited**!  I can't believe i just did that!  I made a complete and total asshole outta myself!  I meant legal, really...sorry for the confusion guys. 

And yes, i think teens should be allowed abortions, but at the will of their parents, so it wouldnt be what old soldier said...not at all. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2005 at 12:15pm
Its ok. We knew what you meant.
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